A German-American Colonial War

[naraic]

Forgive me if I missed it; Where are the German coaling stations in the Carribean, or leading to it?

It is indeed a logistical challenge. I'm sure the Spanish would be happy for Germany to coal in the Canaries as a jumping off point as a form of vengeance but I doubt it's sufficiently close.

Have you ever heard of a fleet collier?

Not sufficient. It's slow to coal a fleet at sea and you would require a lot of time. Also more Colliers are required than the Germans would have to support the fleet so far from home ports.

Perhaps the British would sell some older colliers at a premium price in order to ensure that the Germans make it to give battle with the Americans.

Britain hoping perhaps for a double knockout that would allow them to cut naval spending by even more than the Russia Japan war. 1904 would see wars involving the second third fourth and sixth most powerful navies in the world.

 

[RodentRevolution]

Have you ever heard of a fleet collier?

I suspect he is under the impression that those might well be a mite busy, you have

Thirty Divisions were moved onto ships in the Baltic ports, and German marines prepared for an assault on Subic bay.

IIRC Germany in 1904 had just over a thousand sea going merchant ships, you have moved some 450,000 men and 160,000 plus horses(?) onto German ships, barring the rather high potential that Germany simply does not enough space in its Baltic ports how many ships do you think they have left over for anything?

 

[Carl Schwamberger]

If the squadron is small enough that works. Tho its difficult to find suitable weather in the Atlantic. Its a lot faster & more efficient when there is a sheltered anchorage, not just for transfer operations, but it reduces wear on the coalliers & their fuel consummption between transfer operations to keep them anchored somewhere safe. In many ways transferring the Baltic fleet to the Carribean is a lot less difficult than to the Tushima straits, but it is still not a trivial logistics problem. Aside from transfer there is the question of keeping a steady flow of coal to the fleet. Pennsylvania is the nearest & best source, but I'm unsure he Peabody Company will be available. Spain may be the neutral nearest in distance. Contracting British shipping companies to deliver may be best as that places the delivery on neutral flagged hulls which the US can't afford to sink or seize.

 

[Carl Schwamberger]

...
Perhaps the British would sell some older colliers at a premium price in order to ensure that the Germans make it to give battle with the Americans. ...

More likely they would contract the delivery service. When the US did the White Fleet tour it was easiest to contract Brit companies to ensure timely coal delivery along the route. US industry was not well prepared for this & promised difficulties for the full job.

Trivia note. When the Brits trashed the Ottoman fleet while supporting the Greeks a few decades earlier there was lamentation by some Brit cargo ship companies. They had lost a number of their hulls contracted to the Ottomans.

 

[naraic]

More likely they would contract the delivery service. When the US did the White Fleet tour it was easiest to contract Brit companies to ensure timely coal delivery along the route. US industry was not well prepared for this & promised difficulties for the full job.

Fair point. I had figured that with such an inflammatory tactic the British were likely to want their involvement to be One and Done rather than pissing off the Americans too much.

 

[Rorke]

June 18th, 1904

Subic Bay, The Philippines

0330 Hours

The USS San Francisco was on station outside of Subic Bay. She was a veteran of the Spanish-American war with a somewhat unremarkable service. She was also the only navy ship in the area, as the rest of the Asiatic Squadron was in Manila. The watchman on duty yawned as he scanned the horizon. He thought he spotted something, but he wrote it off as his imagination. He went back to scanning the horizon. A few minutes later, he spotted a wake in the water.

"TORPEDO!"

It was too late, the torpedo struck amidships, putting a large hole in her hull. Her engines were already hot, so she was able to be beached before she sunk. Twenty-nine men were dead, and the rear gun turret was flooded. The firing arc of the forward turret was not sufficient enough to track the interlopers, so it was decided to destroy the forward guns and abandon ship. This was done, and the crew fled into the night.

The SMS Kaiserin Augusta sailed into port at the head of the German East Asia Squadron. Her torpedo tube was in the process of being reloaded. Her crew was alert as they still believed that there were American ships in the area. Admiral Alfred Breusing smiled from the bridge of the Kaiserin as the fleet silently sailed into the bay.

*note* I know Alfred Breusing was not appointed as commander of the East Asia squadron until 1905 IOTL, but as I could not find anyone who was the commander at this time, I'm including his early appointment to the position as part of the POD. Please don't hurt me.

*edit* Changed Olympia to San Francisco to fix error.

*edit* Changed date for realism

 

[Carl Schwamberger]

I suspect he is under the impression that those might well be a mite busy, you have


IIRC Germany in 1904 had just over a thousand sea going merchant ships, you have moved some 450,000 men and 160,000 plus horses(?) onto German ships, barring the rather high potential that Germany simply does not enough space in its Baltic ports how many ships do you think they have left over for anything?

Given the size of the US Army of this era & the poor condition of the state militias thirty German divisions are not needed. Maybe four or six?

 

[Rorke]

June 18th, 1904

Berlin, Germany

0605 Hours

The order is given to the fleet for fifteen of the thirty invasion divisions to be returned to Germany. The other fifteen proceed as planned.

*edit* Changed date for realism

 

[Rorke]

June 18th, 1904

Subic Bay, The Philippines

0719 Hours

The German marine infantry regiments are disembarked and sent to clear out any resistance in the surrounding area.

The SMS Hertha strikes a mine outside of port and sinks with 18 men.

*edit* Changed date for realism

 

[Rorke]

June 18th, 1904

The White House, Washington, D.C.

1024 Hours

"Mr. President, we just lost Subic Bay."

"Mr. President, we have reports of German warships..."

"Mr. President, Manila Bay is blocked off..."

"Mr. President, the Army is not ready for..."

McKinley was bombarded with words as the war room was flooded with reports from the Philippines. The general consensus was that they were screwed.

McKinley's face turned red and he began to sweat profusely.

"Mr. President, are you okay?"

"I have a terrific pain."

At this, McKinley collapsed, banging his head on the table.

President McKinley was later found to have suffered a heart attack from the stress of the war, but the cause of death was blunt trauma to his brain caused by hitting the table so hard.

The next day, vice president Theodore Roosevelt was sworn in as the 26th President of the United States.

 

[Rorke]

June 18th, 1904

Subic Bay, The Philippines

1030 Hours

The German East Asia Squadron leaves Subic Bay on its way to Manila Bay to catch the American Asiatic Squadron. The light cruiser Geier is left behind to guard.

Salvage operations on the USS San Francisco begin.

 

[Ludwig von Stieglitz]

Why do I get the idea that this is a giant american wank in disguise, owing to massive stupidity on behalf of the Germans?

 

[Rorke]

Why do I get the idea that this is a giant american wank in disguise, owing to massive stupidity on behalf of the Germans?

What are you saying?

 

[Ludwig von Stieglitz]

What are you saying?

I do not know...maybe I am wrong and thus TL is different from what I expect,sodo not take it persobally...but the premise looks like one of the infinite TL where the evil Germans take on the poor,innocent, unexpecting USA by use of mischievous plans, only to overextend and be punched to death by the just revenge of the indomitable defenders of democracy (USA) shortly thereafter.

 

[Rorke]

June 18th, 1904

Manila Bay, The Philippines

Various Times

1203 Hours: The USS Monterey, on patrol outside of Manila Bay, engages the German Cruiser Kaiserin Augusta.

1210 Hours: The Monterey is sunk by two torpedoes launched from the German Cruiser SMS Gefion.

1215 Hours: The USS New Orleans breaks out of the bay after badly damaging the German Cruiser SMS Irene.

1215-1246 Hours: The American fleet is slowly picked apart by the Germans, with the USS Isla de Cuba being the second and last ship to successfully disengage and escape the bay.

1246 Hours: The remainder of the American Asiatic Squadron is sunk or scuttled.

The USS New Orleans encounters a German patrol on their way to Formosa, and is badly damaged. She eventually makes it to Formosa. The USS Isla de Cuba makes her way to Formosa a day after the New Orleans ships.

The German Marines encounter fierce resistance from American troops in Manila, but by the end of the day the German flag is raised over the city.

*edit* Changed date for realism

 

[Rorke]

I do not know...maybe I am wrong and thus TL is different from what I expect,sodo not take it persobally...but the premise looks like one of the infinite TL where the evil Germans take on the poor,innocent, unexpecting USA by use of mischievous plans, only to overextend and be punched to death by the just revenge of the indomitable defenders of democracy (USA) shortly thereafter.

That is not what I had in mind, as that cliché is overdone. No, this war is going to be different than that.

 

[Ludwig von Stieglitz]

That is not what I had in mind, as that cliché is overdone. No, this war is going to be different than that.

ok, then, let's see what comes out

 

[nbcman]

June 17th, 1904

Manila Bay, The Philippines

Various Times

1203 Hours: The USS Monterey, on patrol outside of Manila Bay, engages the German Cruiser Kaiserin Augusta.

1210 Hours: The Monterey is sunk by two torpedoes launched from the German Cruiser SMS Gefion.

1215 Hours: The USS New Orleans breaks out with the USS Juan de Austria after badly damaging the German Cruiser SMS Irene.

1215-1246 Hours: The American fleet is slowly picked apart by the Germans, with the USS Isla de Cuba being the third and last ship to successfully disengage and escape the bay.

1246 Hours: The remainder of the American Asiatic Squadron is sunk or scuttled.

The USS New Orleans and the USS Juan de Austria encounter a German patrol on their way to Formosa, and the Juan de Austria is badly damaged. Both ships eventually make it to Formosa. The USS Isla de Cuba makes her way to Formosa a day after the first two ships.

The German Marines encounter fierce resistance from American troops in Manila, but by the end of the day the German flag is raised over the city.

The USS Juan de Austria was in the US for repairs at this time:

She departed Hong Kong 16 December 1903 for the United States, sailing by way of Singapore, Ceylon, India, the Suez Canal, and Mediterranean ports to arrive at Portsmouth Navy Yard, Kittery, Maine, on 21 April 1904. She was out of commission for repairs from 5 May 1904 to 10 December 1905.

And USS Olympia was stationed in the North Atlantic:

She returned to the Chinese coast on 20 May 1899. She remained there until the following month, when she departed for the US, via the Suez Canal and the Mediterranean Sea. The ship arrived in Boston on 10 October.[33] Following Olympia's return to the US, her officers and crew were feted and she was herself repainted and adorned with a gilded bow ornament.[38] On 9 November, Olympia was decommissioned and placed in reserve.[33]
Pre-World War I
Olympia was recommissioned into the fleet in January 1902 and assigned to the North Atlantic Squadron. Her first duty was to serve as the flagship of the Caribbean Division. Over the following four years, the ship patrolled the Atlantic and Mediterranean;[33] her voyages included a visit to Turkey.[39] In March through April 1903 she and four other U.S. Navy warships were involved in an intervention in Honduras.

The SMS Kaiserin Augusta, Irene and Gefion weren't in the Far East either:

Kaiserin Augusta remained stationed in Asia and participated in the international effort to suppress the Boxer Rebellion in 1900. She contributed landing parties to Admiral Edward Seymour's relief force, based in Tientsin.[15] In 1902, the ship returned to Germany for an extensive overhaul, which began in 1903, and lasted until 1907.

In January 1901, the ship's commander was sent to temporarily govern Tsingtau on behalf of the ill governor. Between February and April, Gefion was in Nagasaki, and in June she was stationed at Shanghai. She stayed there until September, when the Admiralstab (Admiralty Staff) ordered her to return to Germany. On 22 September she departed Chinese waters and arrived back in Germany on 1 October.[15]
Later service
She was decommissioned for a major reconstruction the day she returned to Germany.[16] The work was done at the Kaiserliche Werft in Wilhelmshaven from December 1901 to 1904.

Irene returned to Germany after 1901; in 1903 she went into drydock at the Imperial Shipyard in Wilhelmshaven for modernization, which was completed by 1905.

 

[Rorke]

I have a lack of resources, so bear with me.

Do you know anywhere I can find information on the ships in the respective fleets?

Don't say Wikipedia, I've already looked.

*Edit* I'm assuming that the Germans hurried the refits on these ships in order to reinforce the East Asia squadron for the war.

 

[nbcman]

The East Asia Cruiser Squadron sailing speed is unrealistic. Sailing distance from Tsingtao (Qingdao) where the East Asia Cruiser Squadron was based at to Manila is 1412 nautical miles / 2615 km. They were dispatched at 1402 on 16 June and arrived at Subic Bay (100 kms from Manila) at 2320 the same day. Therefore the German fleet sailed 2500 km in a little over 9 hours according to this TL. These ships would be lucky to cover 300 km in 9 hours - 2500 kms would take about 75 hours (over 3 days) at a maximum speed run.