Es Geloybte Aretz - a Germanwank

[Kvasir]

Looking at the borders, and the OTL Russian Empire Census, I would guess that Poles are a majority. Would be interesting to see if Poles from Germany and Austria decide to move to the new Poland.

 

[carlton_bach]

I mean--I still dunno how good of an idea a Beresina border is here. Between the Jews and the Belarusians, are Poles even a majority in the new state?

They will be once they're done defining who is a Pole. But it won't be comfortable or pacific.

 

[carlton_bach]

Dreyfus was released shortly before the war began in June 1906, under the Clemenceau government. Other than that, he has not been mentioned.

He's retired. Not interested in publicity of any kind, either.

Looking at the borders, and the OTL Russian Empire Census, I would guess that Poles are a majority. Would be interesting to see if Poles from Germany and Austria decide to move to the new Poland.

Some will, but nowhere near as many as the architrects of the new Mittreleuropa are hoping

 

[yboxman]

I mean--I still dunno how good of an idea a Beresina border is here. Between the Jews and the Belarusians, are Poles even a majority in the new state?

According to the 1897 census, The Russian Empire had 7.93 million Poles, and only 5.88 million byelourussians. Almost all of the former will be in "Poland", whereas only about 60% of the latter will be (and many, I assume, will be classified as "local"), not taking into account expulsions by the Poles (or forced relocation into the interior by the Russian themselves as occurred during the great retreat in 1915 OTL). Probably a bit under 2 million Jews live in the areas of this "Poland" will include in 1907, not taking into account those who died at the hand of the PU, I vaguely recall Carlton Bach being in the tens of thousand range (analogous to those killed by the Whites in the RCW OTL) in all of the Russian Empire. There are also 200-300 thousand Germans and a hundred thousand or so Lithuanians.

So unless EVERY Jew in The Russian Empire relocates into TTL's Poland (and those in Ruthenia, Lithuania and the Baltics where almost half of the remainder live presumably have no reason to do so), the Poles are still a bare majority.

What is the demographic breakdown in the immediate postwar period? How many Belarusian's are expelled or flee and how many Jews make it into Poland and the other Liberated buffer states from the Russian Empire?

Given a more limited "Great War" and the absence of a successful red revolution is the U.S still going to impose immigration restrictions?

 

[Stendhal]

Vitebsk held 52% Jewish population pre-war OTL.

 

[yboxman]

Vitebsk held 52% Jewish population pre-war OTL.

Among them Chagall. Wonder what happened with him TTL. He moved to St.Petersburg in 1906 OTL when he was 20, but I guess that isn't too likely TTL.

For that matter I wonder where most of Vitbesk's Jews end up. Do Lithuania and Ruthenia also recognize Jews as a semi-autonomous national group and take in Jewish refugees from Russia proper or is this something that the Jews of Poland alone were able to secure?

 

[Stendhal]

Carlton kind of hinted at a "Sherlock Holmes of Vitebsk" case so I will not speculate yet.

 

[Josephus]

So, possibly more of a "Shylock Holmes"?

 

[carlton_bach]

Berlin, 08 October 1908

Major Walter Nikolai had had a good war, all told. True, having served it out in the Berlin headquarters of military intelligence, he had lacked the promotion opportunities of field command. The major’s stripes had stubbornly remained in place throughout the years. Yet his duty had been important, and he had carried it out happily and with conviction. His office had ensured that the press would know what to print – and what not to. He had run campaigns and silenced critics, hounded disloyal scribblers and made an example of that despicable coward Lambszus, and in the end, his efforts had been worth it. True, there would have been so much more to be done had he but been granted the powers, the funds and men, but wasn’t that true everywhere? He had prevailed. Now, it remained to be seen how good his peace would be.


The advantage of serving in IIIb was that nobody disbanded your units after the war. Many a regiment of the reserve already faced this fate, and more would follow once the occupation ended and they handed over their conquests to the new vassal states. What did a man do who fell from the height of regimental command to enforced retirement in a few weeks? No, all told he was happy to have his desk, his files, his letters and his coffee. The coffee, he noted, already tasted a good deal better. Supposedly they made it entirely from Brazilian beans again. Not what they served when he met the directors of Mutuum Bank or the Hugenberg syndicate, but you could drink it with some enjoyment. Fondly recalling the pleasures of his conspiratorial efforts, the major reached for the bell that summoned his secretary when a knock on the door made him pause.


“Enter!” he barked, annoyed at the disturbance. Whatever it was, surely it could wait until the afternoon briefing?


A clashing of heels in the corridor announced the descent of divinity to the sphere of mortals: Field Marshal von der Goltz entered the office, motioned the hapless NXCO to leave and closed the door. Nikolai jumped to his feet and snapped out a salute.


“Field marshal, Sir!”


Von der Goltz smiled. Hamlet, Major Nicolai’s brain supplied the apposite reference. Act I, Scene 5. You could return the avuncular good humour, and he would pull you limb from limb if it suited his purpose. Field marshals did not drop in on subordinate Sesselfurzer. What was going on?


“Sit down, major.” The words of his patron deity put the Nicolai at ease. He was not due a shellacking, at least. Obediently, he sat. Von der Goltz took the chair opposite, fished a cigar case from his pocket, and snapped it open. “I am here to congratulate you on your unit’s excellent work during the war.”


Nicolai accepted the proffered smoke with slightly quivering fingers. “Thank you, Sir.”


I was struck by the dedication of your command, the careful forethought, the exemplary planning … I have a bit of a background in intelligence myself, as you know.” The field marshal struck a match, lit two cigars, and struck. “Your efforts in cultivating the Völkische press have not gone unappreciated.”


Nicolai exploded into a coughing fit. How did he know? Surely, the documents he had handed over were always carefully concealed among his routine visits, the social rounds of a press relations officer? And yet, the hard, unmoving eyes that focused him from a cheery round face told him that the field marshal knew everything.


“I … Sir, I always acted in the interests of the fatherland!”


Von der Goltz nodded, motioning the man to calm himself. “I know, major. If I thought otherwise, you would not be here today.” He drew on his Turkish cigar and savoured the aroma. “Nonetheless, we must talk about this. The exigencies of war allow for things that are frowned upon by the more straight-laced conventions of peace, if you understand what I mean.”


Nicolai shivered. “I see. If there was anything that attracted your disapproval, I can only hope to find forgiveness for it – my intentions were pure.”


“Just one or two things that were – unwelcome at their time,” von der Goltz soothed him. “No, it is the future I wish to discuss with you.”


“If you require my resignation…”


“I require no such thing.” The field marshal interrupted him. “Stop being so thick, Nicolai! Do you like what is happening to Germany? Reds sitting in government? Bankers and stockbrokers running the show?”


Nicolai’s hopes rose. “Sir, I was always of the opinion that this needed putting a stop to. But I always assumed that … given the close association of … certain persons …” He stumbled. Opposition did not come easy if you were inured to obedience.


Von der Goltz cleared his throat. “Rathenau – he is all right, I suppose. Clever bugger. But I am worried about the future of this country, and I will need good men to help ensure that it doesn’t go off the rails in the coming years. You know what plans the Reds have for the peace. The Poles. Every damned runty bunch of foreigners in the Reich. There is enough work to do. Can I rely on you?”


Nicolai stood, instinctively. His face flushed with excitement, he nodded. “Of course, Sir! What will you need me to do?”


“Your contacts with the Hugenberg people will be useful, Nicolai.” The marshal explained. “I will need you to carry the occasional message off the record. Sometimes, papers without any custody chain will cross your desk bound for some press outlet or other. For the time being, that will be all. You will be required to keep a low propfile otherwise – no political activities. What So EEver. Do we understand each other?”


“Perfectly, Sir.”


“Good. It should go without saying you will not leak anything of your own account from this day onwards.”


“Of course!” the major promised before it occurred to him that he had just fully incriminated himself. So much for the intellectual superiority of the intelligence officer!


“I look forward to working you, then. The country will need good men, Nicolai.”


The field marshal left, cooling cigar smoke hanging in the air as evidence of his august apparition in the lowly office. Nicolai shook his head and took a deep breath. To work, then!

 

[JohnOfNottingham]

Goltz aiming at some sort of coup?

Also, wooo, new chapter.

 

[carlton_bach]

Goltz aiming at some sort of coup?

Coup would be saying too much. Maneuvering into place for the postwar reality. A man has to know who his friends are, and the alliance at the top was always uneasy.

 

[Vingilótë]

Laying the ground for the forthcoming "Conservative Revolution"?

Honestly, I'm a bit surprised to learn that Von der Goltz would be palling about with Hugenbergmedia and such, but not too surprised.

 

[Shevek23]

I have not ever researched Goltz OTL, knowing him solely from his portrayal here. I always figured based on that that he was flexibly minded and a fairly good match for the young Kaiser in his interests, and would follow the Kaiser's lead in opening his mind to the virtues of the lower classes and their different but commendable forms of loyalty to Kaiser and Reich. And thus, he would not be too terribly alarmed at the rise of more populist factions. No Smedley Butler perhaps, but anyway an astute Eisenhower type--not a MacArthur or worse.

Since anyone who remembers my earliest comments knows I overestimated the Kaiser's liberalism, I shouldn't be too shocked to learn that, if not the stupidest and most reactionary type politically, he remains a Junker. But I am disappointed in him, and I ought to read up OTL to know just how far off the mark I was.

 

[CaliGuy]

According to the 1897 census, The Russian Empire had 7.93 million Poles, and only 5.88 million byelourussians. Almost all of the former will be in "Poland", whereas only about 60% of the latter will be (and many, I assume, will be classified as "local"), not taking into account expulsions by the Poles (or forced relocation into the interior by the Russian themselves as occurred during the great retreat in 1915 OTL). Probably a bit under 2 million Jews live in the areas of this "Poland" will include in 1907, not taking into account those who died at the hand of the PU, I vaguely recall Carlton Bach being in the tens of thousand range (analogous to those killed by the Whites in the RCW OTL) in all of the Russian Empire. There are also 200-300 thousand Germans and a hundred thousand or so Lithuanians.

So unless EVERY Jew in The Russian Empire relocates into TTL's Poland (and those in Ruthenia, Lithuania and the Baltics where almost half of the remainder live presumably have no reason to do so), the Poles are still a bare majority.

Please keep in mind that the 1897 Russian census appears to have been biased against Poles (especially in the Vilnius area):

https://books.google.com/books?id=e...#v=onepage&q=1897 russia census poles&f=false

Also, if it's not too much to ask, would it be possible for someone to make a map of the current geopolitical situation in this TL?

 

[carlton_bach]

Laying the ground for the forthcoming "Conservative Revolution"?

Honestly, I'm a bit surprised to learn that Von der Goltz would be palling about with Hugenbergmedia and such, but not too surprised.

I have not ever researched Goltz OTL, knowing him solely from his portrayal here. I always figured based on that that he was flexibly minded and a fairly good match for the young Kaiser in his interests, and would follow the Kaiser's lead in opening his mind to the virtues of the lower classes and their different but commendable forms of loyalty to Kaiser and Reich. And thus, he would not be too terribly alarmed at the rise of more populist factions. No Smedley Butler perhaps, but anyway an astute Eisenhower type--not a MacArthur or worse.

Since anyone who remembers my earliest comments knows I overestimated the Kaiser's liberalism, I shouldn't be too shocked to learn that, if not the stupidest and most reactionary type politically, he remains a Junker. But I am disappointed in him, and I ought to read up OTL to know just how far off the mark I was.

Von der Goltz IOTL was the brains behind the doctrine of Volkskrieg, the idea that nations, not armies, fight wars and that all of Germany needed to be made fit for all-out war effort. He supported right-wing populism (that was one of the reasons he was not considered for more senior positions) and dictatorship, but also meritocracy and a paternalistic welfare state. And he hated Socialism and liberalism. I may not have made this clear enough, but he's a major asshole - a good guy, not a nice guy.

In his mind, he is doing the emperor a favour: He's defending Germany against those that would destroy its national spirit and moral fibre. He spent the last few decades watching as the Social Democrats went from an insignificant illegal club to the most influential party in the state, and he understands the advantages of organisation and compromise. Unless he can create a bloc like that on the right, the future of Germany will be determined between the two organised mass political parties: Zentrum and SPD. And they are both inimical to the Germany he serves.

ITTL he is not exactly a fan of the Hugenberg press, but it's the best fit there is: Ullstein is liberal, pro-Jewish and reformist, the Vorwärts and affiliates are Socialist, and the Catholic publishers are all vocally anti-Prussian. The dwindling traditional conservative press has practically no readership outside the nobility and civil service, and has already suffered predatpry takeovers from Hugenberg. So he is going to alingn his resources with the nascent völkische organisation, confident that this will be enough to bring down any future democratic, Socialist, or anti-German parties.

 

[avernite]

Von der Goltz IOTL was the brains behind the doctrine of Volkskrieg, the idea that nations, not armies, fight wars and that all of Germany needed to be made fit for all-out war effort. He supported right-wing populism (that was one of the reasons he was not considered for more senior positions) and dictatorship, but also meritocracy and a paternalistic welfare state. And he hated Socialism and liberalism. I may not have made this clear enough, but he's a major asshole - a good guy, not a nice guy.

In his mind, he is doing the emperor a favour: He's defending Germany against those that would destroy its national spirit and moral fibre. He spent the last few decades watching as the Social Democrats went from an insignificant illegal club to the most influential party in the state, and he understands the advantages of organisation and compromise. Unless he can create a bloc like that on the right, the future of Germany will be determined between the two organised mass political parties: Zentrum and SPD. And they are both inimical to the Germany he serves.

ITTL he is not exactly a fan of the Hugenberg press, but it's the best fit there is: Ullstein is liberal, pro-Jewish and reformist, the Vorwärts and affiliates are Socialist, and the Catholic publishers are all vocally anti-Prussian. The dwindling traditional conservative press has practically no readership outside the nobility and civil service, and has already suffered predatpry takeovers from Hugenberg. So he is going to alingn his resources with the nascent völkische organisation, confident that this will be enough to bring down any future democratic, Socialist, or anti-German parties.

Plus he probably figures that if he steps in he can steer and contain the Volkische press, in support of Juncker and Prussia, rather than see them run away into some kind of fascistoid populist mass movement opposed to the entire establishment-as-is.

And given your hints in the past, he might even be able to set up a nice Juncker dictatorship with Volkisch backing.

 

[Vingilótë]

Von der Goltz IOTL was the brains behind the doctrine of Volkskrieg, the idea that nations, not armies, fight wars and that all of Germany needed to be made fit for all-out war effort. He supported right-wing populism (that was one of the reasons he was not considered for more senior positions) and dictatorship, but also meritocracy and a paternalistic welfare state. And he hated Socialism and liberalism. I may not have made this clear enough, but he's a major asshole - a good guy, not a nice guy.

In his mind, he is doing the emperor a favour: He's defending Germany against those that would destroy its national spirit and moral fibre. He spent the last few decades watching as the Social Democrats went from an insignificant illegal club to the most influential party in the state, and he understands the advantages of organisation and compromise. Unless he can create a bloc like that on the right, the future of Germany will be determined between the two organised mass political parties: Zentrum and SPD. And they are both inimical to the Germany he serves.

ITTL he is not exactly a fan of the Hugenberg press, but it's the best fit there is: Ullstein is liberal, pro-Jewish and reformist, the Vorwärts and affiliates are Socialist, and the Catholic publishers are all vocally anti-Prussian. The dwindling traditional conservative press has practically no readership outside the nobility and civil service, and has already suffered predatpry takeovers from Hugenberg. So he is going to alingn his resources with the nascent völkische organisation, confident that this will be enough to bring down any future democratic, Socialist, or anti-German parties.

Oh yes, I believe you've alluded to it in the past before.

04 December 1907, Berlin, Staatsministerium

“Bah. Morale!” Von der Goltz waved dismissively. “My men need weapons to defeat the enemy, and it is the duty of everybody at home to provide them. If you cannot produce them, then you can damned well eat potatoes so we can afford them!”

[...]

The field marshal shook his head and grunted. “Bah! Rathenau, you have no idea, no IDEA what pride of country can do! There is gold in Germany, find it! There is labour, there is capital, there are your values! The German people will work for generations in poverty if it means victory and safety today. It might even do their character good. We’ve gone fat and lazy.”

I suppose we assumed, however, that since he was brought to command after Eitel Friedrich/Bock und Pollach's coup, and Schlieffen's subsequent sacking, that he was basically in alignment with Wilhelm, a meeting of minds if you will.

 

[Vingilótë]

17 August 1907, Berlin

“This is very interesting material, Herr Hauptmann.” Hugenberg said as he thumbed through the file. “How did you come by it, if I may ask?”

Captain Walter Nicolai frowned. “You understand, Mre Hugenerg,” he pointed out, “that I am running considerable risks providing these to you at all. I would rather not discuss details. I can tell you that I am currently on duty at the general staff's war economy department. Some things – drew my attention.”

“Of course, of course.” Hugenberg soothed him. He was used to the rituals of deference soldiers expected, even if they were, in fact, selling government secrets to the press, and there was no point alienating a useful man. Nicolai was useful. If his instincts were to be trusted, Nicolai could prove very useful indeed. “I would never expect you to endanger yourself over such matters. I was merely expressing my interest. These documents are quite explosive, I must say.”

They were. By official permit, granted by no less august a person that Walther Krupp von Rathenau, a shipment of diamonds – diamonds! - was sent from Südwest to London for sale by the Mineralgesellschaft. How such a thing could be permitted in wartime was hard enough to understand. Where the stones had come from – that would need answering. A quick study of the commercial registry Nikolai had already made identified the culprit: Deutsch-Südwest Mineralgesellschaft mbH, registered in Hamburg, stated purpose being the exploration and exploitation of mineral resources in Südwest. The list of owners had several names stand out: Warburg, Ballin, Bleichröder. Well-connected names. Rodenson, whoever that was. And Jews, obviously. Which would at least answer the question why Rathenau would have given that permission, wouldn't it?

“When I first found them, I thought of drawing my superiors' attention to the matter, but I quickly learned that they had no interest in these things. I fear corruption has spread its tentacles far inside the government.” The captain scratched his moustache. “That was when I thought you would be able to help.”

“Help?” Hugenberg asked, interested. “How do you mean?”

“Draw public attention to this. Root out the criminals behind this and expose them.” Nicolai drew a deep breath. “I have little hope from our government. His Majesty is far away, and surrounded by his cabal of doctors and financiers. Rathenau rules in Berlin. Field Marshal von der Goltz has no interest in economic matters. But the German people is being defrauded here. Something must be done.”

Hugenberg nodded. “I agree, and something will be done. We will have to do some more research, look into the business of the Mineralgesellschaft, and Rathenau's overseas investments, too. It will take time. But rest assured, we will expose this crime, asnd God willing bring down the whole rotten edicice of finance Jewry with it.”

Nicolai smiled grimly. “I am glad to be able to do my part in this, Mr Hugenberg. And if you allow me to say so, I am happy that it has given me the opportunity to meet you.”

“I am flattered, Captain. Surely, a man of your rank and accopmplishments must look down on a humble newspaperman like me.” He offered a cigar, then took one hiumself and lit both. After a few moments of contented puffing, Hugenberg spooke again. “Now, as to the matter of your remuneration...”

Nicolai raised his hand. “Please, Mr Hugenberg. I have done no more than my duty by my country. In similar circumstances, I may turn to you again. But I will not hear of money.”

The Cuban cigar almost dropped in Hugenberg's lap.

Ah, hell, I'd almost forgotten this little chestnut too.

 

[Benjamin Allen Burch]

I read the first half from 6 until 1:00 AM, and the second half from 10-5 PM. Good job keeping me hooked!

 

[Benjamin Allen Burch]

I would have thought, in the aftermath of the ITTL Great War, that the Germans would have annexed some land, especially after paying for it with two million casualties.