The Anglo/American - Nazi War
- Thread starter CalBear
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Huh, interesting. Is there any particular reason Hitler and Mussolini left them alone?
I think Hitler decided IOTL he had more immediate issues and that he'd deal with the Soviets and secure Germany's position on the continent first.
However, when that was done, I don't get why he chooses to leave an independent democracy with a large Germanic population in the middle of his empire.
It would be worth reading the wikipedia article on Operation Tannenbaum. He really, really did not like the Swiss for some reason and he wasn't like the DPRK; when he didn't like you and threatened violence that meant the tanks were gonna role.
Possibly because those Germans were very anti-Nazi and would shoot at his troops rather than regard them as 'liberators'. From what I've read the Nazis began to rationalise this by deciding that Swiss Germans were not 'proper' Germans. I have also read that ordinary Swiss had planned to kill what Swiss Nazis there were the second German troops crossed their borders.
The Nazis did threaten Switzerland on a number of occasions. The Swiss response was the diplomatic equivalent of 'come and have a go if you think you're hard enough'.
Bookmark1995
Banned
I think of the most interesting stories ITTL would be the tale of the former Soviet citizens who become "Western Alaskans".
I am curious as to what the experience of being a Western Alaskan is like. How do people who lived under communism adapt to American capitalism? How does a former Slavic territory evolve under the influence of Americana?
I think the Western Alaskans can be divided into three generations:
1. Those born between 1920-1934. This generation witnessed the Soviet regime- that they were taught was unstoppable-crumble under the Nazi horde. People growing up during this time feared being shipped off to a labor camp in Germany, and probably witnessed their friends and family sacrificed by the desperate and ill-fated Molotov government. Some kept their heads down, while others joined partisan groups to resist the Krasnoyarsk traitors. They would be the ones who would witness the The Red Banner replaced with Old Glory, and would struggle to be governed by the people they were brought up to think as decadent.
2. Those born between 1935-1951. This generation has few memories of the Soviet years. They spent all their time being taught to think of themselves as potential tributes. When their territory becomes American, they are the first ones who get taught English. They also struggle to find their way in a new world. While they love the capitalism, they still refer to their region as "Kamchatcka".
3. Anybody born after 1955. This is the first generation that can truly be considered "Western Alaskan." A generation without the memories of terror, oppression, and famine. The generation that always grew up thinking itself as American, and eats from the garden of prosperity. They are like second-generation Americans: struggling to build their own identities under the watch of their more traditional parents. This is the generation that eats burgers rather than borsche. That plays with Barbie (or an ITTL variant) rather than a Matryoskha doll.
How Western Alaska evolves, economically, culturally, and socially, would be an interesting TL all of its own.
I am curious as to what the experience of being a Western Alaskan is like. How do people who lived under communism adapt to American capitalism? How does a former Slavic territory evolve under the influence of Americana?
I think the Western Alaskans can be divided into three generations:
1. Those born between 1920-1934. This generation witnessed the Soviet regime- that they were taught was unstoppable-crumble under the Nazi horde. People growing up during this time feared being shipped off to a labor camp in Germany, and probably witnessed their friends and family sacrificed by the desperate and ill-fated Molotov government. Some kept their heads down, while others joined partisan groups to resist the Krasnoyarsk traitors. They would be the ones who would witness the The Red Banner replaced with Old Glory, and would struggle to be governed by the people they were brought up to think as decadent.
2. Those born between 1935-1951. This generation has few memories of the Soviet years. They spent all their time being taught to think of themselves as potential tributes. When their territory becomes American, they are the first ones who get taught English. They also struggle to find their way in a new world. While they love the capitalism, they still refer to their region as "Kamchatcka".
3. Anybody born after 1955. This is the first generation that can truly be considered "Western Alaskan." A generation without the memories of terror, oppression, and famine. The generation that always grew up thinking itself as American, and eats from the garden of prosperity. They are like second-generation Americans: struggling to build their own identities under the watch of their more traditional parents. This is the generation that eats burgers rather than borsche. That plays with Barbie (or an ITTL variant) rather than a Matryoskha doll.
How Western Alaska evolves, economically, culturally, and socially, would be an interesting TL all of its own.
Depending of the period in which the analysis has been made, there is a fourth generation, with those born under the waning years of Tsarism.
I do like the idea that this means that there are three or four elderly Yakuts who honestly haven't noticed any of the goings-on ITTL. Actually, that probably applies well to OTL as well.
Bookmark1995
Banned
Well, I wouldn't know what the values of this generation are, but the honest truth is, I don't think there would be too many people from the period alive. In between the Red Terror, World War II, and Molotov's forced labor program, I fear their numbers would become inconsequential.
I fear the Yakuts would've the been the kind of people Molotov would have selected first as tributes to Nazi Germany.
A family of Old Believers hid itself in Siberia in the 1930s and were only found in the 1970s.
Bookmark1995
Banned
I wonder if the nations most brutalized (demographically and culturally) by Nazism, there is going to be backlash against global culture.
My reasoning is that many nations in Europe will have spent the last half-century or so trying to salvage whatever cultural heritage they can from the ashes of their nation. In Poland and France, for example, whole government agencies exist trying to rebuild what the Nazis destroyed.
Could the conservative forces within these countries resist the importation of American and other kinds of culture as a distraction from this important goal?
OTL Bhutan's years of isolation were also tied to his fear of their culture being replaced by Western influence.
In the present day ITTL Poland, there is now a generation that can only remember The Zniszczcnie (Polish word for destruction, used to described the horrors of World War II) on an intellectual level, and may not take the determination of their parents seriously. Would their teachers and parents be annoyed by their preferences for American music, Bollywood movies, and British candies instead of learning about Polish music?
My reasoning is that many nations in Europe will have spent the last half-century or so trying to salvage whatever cultural heritage they can from the ashes of their nation. In Poland and France, for example, whole government agencies exist trying to rebuild what the Nazis destroyed.
Could the conservative forces within these countries resist the importation of American and other kinds of culture as a distraction from this important goal?
OTL Bhutan's years of isolation were also tied to his fear of their culture being replaced by Western influence.
In the present day ITTL Poland, there is now a generation that can only remember The Zniszczcnie (Polish word for destruction, used to described the horrors of World War II) on an intellectual level, and may not take the determination of their parents seriously. Would their teachers and parents be annoyed by their preferences for American music, Bollywood movies, and British candies instead of learning about Polish music?
The Western Alaska borders are strongly defended, although there are stronger defenses on the Chinese side of the border than on the U.S. side. Same goes for the Yalu where it separates China and Korea. The Chinese are very much in the same situation as East Germany back during the recent unpleasantness, lost of folks would love to vote with their feet given half a chance.
The Chinese also expect the "West" to attack them any second. The truth is that the West would be perfectly happy to let the Chinese sit and stew.
There really isn't a global culture. There is a massive "Anglo" influence" and a nearly as massive "Indian" influence (which a lot of third parties see almost as a different flavor of the "Anglo" influence since it tends to be exported in English). Latin America is beginning to have some impact, but compared to the English speaking influence it is very tiny.
Lost Freeway
Banned
Would the A4 encourage the revival of Low German dialects in Northern Germany to discourage the formation of a new Germany identity?
MERRICA
Banned
I think there will even be hardcore nativist polices by the Poles. There might even heavy restrictions/banning of Childfree couples. For example, Polish politicians might make the claim that Childfree couples would " Rather spend their time in selfish pursuits than making sure that the Polish People do not again almost lose their identity and nationhood." There might also be an strict expectation that even if you were to be LGBTQ+, you had to have kids or adopt them and raised them in a traditional Polish manner.
Probably no legal prohibitions, but heavy social disapproval. The government might even go so far as to ban contraception (with the excuse of following Roman Catholic doctrine, if the 1968 encyclical Humanae Vitae was written the same ITTL.)
Thothian
Banned
Or maybe not, after they saw Stettin get flattened. The message from the A4 is pretty clear: Germany will never be allowed to exist again, no matter the cost.
Calbear, I believe the last thing I read of TTL, it was 2012 and the US was about to launch the first Mars mission. Any plans to fill the TL out to 2017?
OTL Nazi depopulation schemes for Poland and Ukraine involved promoting contraception, abortion, and pornography, and they had enough success that Home Army punishment squads took aim at burlesque shows, among other things. A ban on those would simply be part of standard de-Nazification measures in Poland and the Ukraines and Belarus--barring some serious pressure from the A4, the bans would probably still be in effect.
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