As a Haitian American I am subscribing to this thread. If you have any questions you can ask me about haiti's history. I am currently in the beginngs stages of a Haitian TL.
TL: The Haitian Renaissance
- Thread starter GlobalHumanism
- Start date
Sak pase! As a Haitian I also just subscribed to this thread! Anyone can also feel free to discuss Haiti with me.
I have a question for GlobalHumanism: How will TTL Haiti deal with the language barrier? OTL, the use of French in government and education essentially meant that those who weren't raised speaking French at home (as in, 95% of the population) could go through school learning nothing because it was in a foreign language. Laws were also written in French, meaning that most of the population could not even understand the legal codes. Essentially, those who weren't raised in French-speaking families were barred from gaining any power. With European French as the official language of TTL Haiti, how are class struggles between the mulatto minority and black majority playing out? And with a large Spanish-speaking populace, adding a third language to the mix, are Spanish-speakers facing any discrimination?
Being Haitian, I'm really complimented that someone has done so much research on Haiti and I think this is an awesome project, so keep it up!
Nap boule! Finally lol I thought I was the only Haitian in AH.com history lol. Like Drake said Nigga we made it.
And that's not all, then you have Caribbean Spanish as well to factor in. Actually I have a question: why does Haiti mostly speak creole but Dominica (and Cuba and Puerto Rico as well) speak a intelligible form of its colonial language? (As far as I know Caribbean Spanish is not too different from the other colonial Spanish dialects, correct me if I'm wrong)
Didn't think Haiti was that ghetto. Cool beans Bruh.
I think alot has to be addressed. To have the island united you have to reverse all the things that caused the Dominican revolt against Haiti. So basically allowing Dominicans voice in govt. Moving the capital was a good idea. Another is have the island a bilingual nation like Canada. So the language of govt should be Kreyol and Spanish.
Many things that are interesting is Gran Colombia's rise and also its relationship with Mexico. Also will Brazil be united in OTL or will it dissolve into various nations? And i feel the US is gonna get pwned in this version of the war of 1812 even worse in OTL. Latin America is going to be a whole lot different. I wonder what is your plans for Boyer? He ruled Haiti for a long time. That shows he has a shrewd political mind and he was ruthless. I hate him the most because he wanted to pay France that massive debt that forever destroyed Haiti.
Many things that are interesting is Gran Colombia's rise and also its relationship with Mexico. Also will Brazil be united in OTL or will it dissolve into various nations? And i feel the US is gonna get pwned in this version of the war of 1812 even worse in OTL. Latin America is going to be a whole lot different. I wonder what is your plans for Boyer? He ruled Haiti for a long time. That shows he has a shrewd political mind and he was ruthless. I hate him the most because he wanted to pay France that massive debt that forever destroyed Haiti.
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So the Americans freed themselves from the opressor's yoke 30 years ago, but now seek to deny freedom to the Caribbeans only because they are black men? VIVA LA GRAN COLOMBIA!!
OTOH, please have the FRCA survive as well. Stronger states will be paramount in curbing or reducing imperialism that will hurt the Antilleans as well. And it would be a nice Central-American wank, a very rare and precious thing
And even with the knowledge that your TL is a Haiti wank, the ultimate form of wanking would be something like the Golden Circle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Circle_(proposed_country)) , but without the by then US territories and the slavery part, of course, and with full Gran Colombia
OTOH, please have the FRCA survive as well. Stronger states will be paramount in curbing or reducing imperialism that will hurt the Antilleans as well. And it would be a nice Central-American wank, a very rare and precious thing
And even with the knowledge that your TL is a Haiti wank, the ultimate form of wanking would be something like the Golden Circle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Circle_(proposed_country)) , but without the by then US territories and the slavery part, of course, and with full Gran Colombia
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guinazacity
Banned
Time for the Latin Americans to show the USA what true freedom is all about! VIVE L'OUVERTURE, VIVA BOLIVAR!
I know what you mean dude. I often root for the US in this case. But now the US is the bad guys. So go Britain!
Time for the Latin Americans to show the USA what true freedom is all about! VIVE L'OUVERTURE, VIVA BOLIVAR!
Definitely! Time to show those WASPS that we are ALL Americans and we ALL deserve freedom! Boy, I wonder if a stronger Haiti can cause butterflies that lead to a Pan-American confederacy as Bolivar initially intended...
I also hope Mexico can fare better here, at least not losing too much territory to the US.
Wait I can see this war with Britain end bad for the US. Gran Colombia with Haiti instigating a massive slave revolt in the South? Maybe a a slave revolt in Brazil too?
guinazacity
Banned
Wait I can see this war with Britain end bad for the US. Gran Colombia with Haiti instigating a massive slave revolt in the South? Maybe a a slave revolt in Brazil too?
Think of this as nation chemotherapy for the usa. And that the planter elite is the cancer.
The cancer will be cured with liberal application of machete to the neck.
Lol no, too easy. Let the US fragment, in a similar way to the early 'What Madness is This', and then when it gets it's act together, get smashed again by the Caribbean Union, Mexico and the UK.
guinazacity
Banned
Lol no, too easy. Let the US fragment, in a similar way to the early 'What Madness is This', and then when it gets it's act together, get smashed again by the Caribbean Union, Mexico and the UK.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the bloody destruction of all european powers plus usa
Great! I'm a big fan of this story!
Question: Do you have any plans for the relatively large number of Caribbean Muslims of that time, something similar to "Malé rising" perhaps?
Question: Do you have any plans for the relatively large number of Caribbean Muslims of that time, something similar to "Malé rising" perhaps?
Geo-Political Happenings Part 5
********************************************************
France August 1812
“Disperse men! Disperse! We shall spread into the forests give those British devils the fight of their lives!” said Napoleon as he hide with his generals in a Parisian hovel.
“So long as there is air in my lungs and blood in my heart, the imperial resolve of France shall never be broken!”
In 1812, France and more specifically the Napoleonic regime, was on its last legs. 11 years of near constant warfare had lead to the collapse of not only the army, but the state apparatus itself started to unravel.
A coalition of British, Prussian, and Russian forces were now pouring into Paris , with Austrian forces march on Marseilles in the south.
Earlier in the year requests for Napoleon to step down as means to avoid an invasion of the French countryside were ignored. Now the remnants of said regime plotting the formation of guerrilla campaign to force the coalition out of Paris.
“Follow me men, I shall lead you to glory once more!” shouted Napoleon as he marched toward the door.
Joachim Murat, Louis Berthier, Jean de Dieu Soult, Jean-Baptiste Bernadotte and several other officers of his now decimated Grand Armee stood around the table, looking nervously at each other while Napoleon had his back turned.
“It’s over Napoleon...” said Murat as he came upon the emperor.
Gripping a small officer’s dagger in his right hand, Murat slipped the blade
into the right side of Napoleon’s back.
The little General groaned.
In unison the others joined in, each stabbing the emperor from all sides.
Napoleon fell to the floor and died a minutes seconds later.
The next morning the war was declared over and peace congress was called for the Winter 1812.
********************************************************
United Kingdom August 1812
While the European enemy was utterly defeated, Westminster found itself at war with an enemy across the Atlantic.
American ships had fired upon British vessels a few months earlier off the coast of the Colombia/Venezuela and while the during the open phases of the battle itself caught naval officers by surprise, the Royal Navy came back with a vengeance.
Freed from the blockade of French ports, 25 of Ships-of-the along with 30 frigates were immediately ordered to Caribbean to annihilate US navy.
The British Garrison in Canada was also given the order to advance on New England with several major British officers being sent from the Home Island to assist. Amongst them a young Duke of Wellington.
********************************************************
United States August 1812
President Pinckney’s declaration of war on the United Kingdom was met with rousing support from both the Senate and House. Angry over the British support of slave rebellions and liberal insurrections in the Western Hemisphere, Slave-Owning War Hawks were eager extinguish any threat of similar slave insurrections within the United States. And with the successful Naval Skirmish off the coast of Venezuela, Pinckney was confident that the war would soon be over.
********************************************************
Spain – Portugal August 1812
The assassination of his Brother in Paris the month prior forced Joseph Bonaparte, King the Iberian Union to both abdicate his throne and flee to South America. The now leaderless Iberian Union, already in the midst of a full blow civil war then disintegrated again into the separate kingdoms of Portugal and Spain.
********************************************************
Spanish Americas August 1812
Bolivar now found himself in the midst of his own civil war, but also supported exclusively by both the British and the young Antillean Republic. Though a few months prior he witnessed US vessels successfully skirmishing with British ships of the coast of Venezuela, he placed his confidence in the British Navy to enact bloody revenge on the Americans.
********************************************************
France August 1812
“Disperse men! Disperse! We shall spread into the forests give those British devils the fight of their lives!” said Napoleon as he hide with his generals in a Parisian hovel.
“So long as there is air in my lungs and blood in my heart, the imperial resolve of France shall never be broken!”
In 1812, France and more specifically the Napoleonic regime, was on its last legs. 11 years of near constant warfare had lead to the collapse of not only the army, but the state apparatus itself started to unravel.
A coalition of British, Prussian, and Russian forces were now pouring into Paris , with Austrian forces march on Marseilles in the south.
Earlier in the year requests for Napoleon to step down as means to avoid an invasion of the French countryside were ignored. Now the remnants of said regime plotting the formation of guerrilla campaign to force the coalition out of Paris.
“Follow me men, I shall lead you to glory once more!” shouted Napoleon as he marched toward the door.
Joachim Murat, Louis Berthier, Jean de Dieu Soult, Jean-Baptiste Bernadotte and several other officers of his now decimated Grand Armee stood around the table, looking nervously at each other while Napoleon had his back turned.
“It’s over Napoleon...” said Murat as he came upon the emperor.
Gripping a small officer’s dagger in his right hand, Murat slipped the blade
into the right side of Napoleon’s back.
The little General groaned.
In unison the others joined in, each stabbing the emperor from all sides.
Napoleon fell to the floor and died a minutes seconds later.
The next morning the war was declared over and peace congress was called for the Winter 1812.
********************************************************
United Kingdom August 1812
American ships had fired upon British vessels a few months earlier off the coast of the Colombia/Venezuela and while the during the open phases of the battle itself caught naval officers by surprise, the Royal Navy came back with a vengeance.
Freed from the blockade of French ports, 25 of Ships-of-the along with 30 frigates were immediately ordered to Caribbean to annihilate US navy.
The British Garrison in Canada was also given the order to advance on New England with several major British officers being sent from the Home Island to assist. Amongst them a young Duke of Wellington.
********************************************************
United States August 1812
President Pinckney’s declaration of war on the United Kingdom was met with rousing support from both the Senate and House. Angry over the British support of slave rebellions and liberal insurrections in the Western Hemisphere, Slave-Owning War Hawks were eager extinguish any threat of similar slave insurrections within the United States. And with the successful Naval Skirmish off the coast of Venezuela, Pinckney was confident that the war would soon be over.
********************************************************
Spain – Portugal August 1812
The assassination of his Brother in Paris the month prior forced Joseph Bonaparte, King the Iberian Union to both abdicate his throne and flee to South America. The now leaderless Iberian Union, already in the midst of a full blow civil war then disintegrated again into the separate kingdoms of Portugal and Spain.
********************************************************
Spanish Americas August 1812
Bolivar now found himself in the midst of his own civil war, but also supported exclusively by both the British and the young Antillean Republic. Though a few months prior he witnessed US vessels successfully skirmishing with British ships of the coast of Venezuela, he placed his confidence in the British Navy to enact bloody revenge on the Americans.
guinazacity
Banned
Come on bolivar, you gotta win this one!
First south America, then the USA!
Let's see how many slaver founding fathers end hanging from a tree
First south America, then the USA!
Let's see how many slaver founding fathers end hanging from a tree
A most interesting chapter...
Napoleon dying just like Caesar... Impressive touch right there. And dare I say: "History Repeats"?
But now with the war over. Britain will have the abbility to unleash all it's Royal might onto their ex-colonies... What future awaits thew so-called "Land of the Free" (offer available only for wealthy, white Anglo-Saxon, Protestant Christian, straight males).
Again, Go Britain! And go Bolivar! For an independent Spanish America!
I'm curious, too, as to what will you have in store for Mexico and my Native Peru.
Napoleon dying just like Caesar... Impressive touch right there. And dare I say: "History Repeats"?
But now with the war over. Britain will have the abbility to unleash all it's Royal might onto their ex-colonies... What future awaits thew so-called "Land of the Free" (offer available only for wealthy, white Anglo-Saxon, Protestant Christian, straight males).
Again, Go Britain! And go Bolivar! For an independent Spanish America!
I'm curious, too, as to what will you have in store for Mexico and my Native Peru.