A Glorious Union or America: the New Sparta

FYI OTL the provision of prosthetic limbs, and the periodic replacement of them, was a significant proportion of the money spent by the Army Medical Department for many decades after the Civil War. In the OTL postwar south, provision of limbs for Confederate amputees was handled by state governments, and in some cases often represented the single largest line item in a given years budget. Unfortunately the organized rehabilitation that we have seen where therapists work with amputees to teach ambulation, use of upper extremity prostheses, and what are called activities of daily living (ADLs) did not exist anywhere at the time of the ACW, this really became well organized during WWI although the roots were earlier.

OTL a CS officer who became an amputee early in the war founded an establishment to provide limbs, this sort of medical manufacture as well as production of medical instruments and standard drugs was essentially non-existent in the south, all such coming from the north or overseas previously. That company, J. E. Hanger & Co is still in business and is a major player in the field.

References can be supplied on this and other medical issues upon request.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Saw that as well,

Great update. "The Magdala Club". Well well well.

What's next?

Saw that as well, but to fit with the "Aztec Club" theme, it could suggest something unpleasant in Ethiopia, the Levant, or Germany, for that matter...;)

Best,
 
Nice update, KI. :)

I forgot to ask earlier but what happened to Colonel Root of the 15th New York Cavalry in this timeline (and the regiment as a whole, for that matter)? OTL, the regiment was part of Custer's division and Root died at Appomattox leading one of the last charges of the war. With no Appomattox campaign did he make it?

I am away for a few days but if I get the chance I will give you a potted history of the Colonel and his regiment.
 
Damn I forgot the West Point reforms. Oh well, will include it in Lincoln's Second Term update.

Next The Great Exodus Part II: The Blue Eyed Prophet and the Promised Land.
 
Nice update, KI. :)

I forgot to ask earlier but what happened to Colonel Root of the 15th New York Cavalry in this timeline (and the regiment as a whole, for that matter)? OTL, the regiment was part of Custer's division and Root died at Appomattox leading one of the last charges of the war. With no Appomattox campaign did he make it?

The red neck ties would have a dull but difficult first half of 1864 on anti-guerrilla duty in south-west Virginia. After the fall of Charlotte and the Chantilly peace, the 15th would have the misfortune to be transferred to a brigade under Kilcavalry...sorry Hugh Judson Kilpatrick, which raided towards Columbia under George Custer. The regiment finished the war under Colonel Richardson with Lt.Col Augustus Root in one piece at his side. As 1865 commenced they have returned to anti-guerrilla (almost none) and garrison duty in south west Virginia before being mustered out in November 1865...
 
Damn I forgot the West Point reforms. Oh well, will include it in Lincoln's Second Term update.

Next The Great Exodus Part II: The Blue Eyed Prophet and the Promised Land.

Looking forward to some post war Jackson and a better idea of how the gre exiles cope in Mexico and elsewhere.
 
Looking forward to some post war Jackson and a better idea of how the gre exiles cope in Mexico and elsewhere.

Looking to detail the early experience of the Confederate exiles in Mexico (and to a much much lesser degree Cuba and Brazil) while giving a lot of detail about the Imperial Mexican Government and the Civil War there and its outcome. Looking to flesh out the early development of culture and religious changes in the three Confederate colonies of Carlotta, Coat'n'peg and Three Valleys...
 
Looking to detail the early experience of the Confederate exiles in Mexico (and to a much much lesser degree Cuba and Brazil) while giving a lot of detail about the Imperial Mexican Government and the Civil War there and its outcome. Looking to flesh out the early development of culture and religious changes in the three Confederate colonies of Carlotta, Coat'n'peg and Three Valleys...

How big are these Confederate exile communities? IIRC the OTL settlement in Brazil had something like 20,000 people. Here though the exodus seems to be orders of magnitudes larger.

Care to give us some rough estimates size wise?
 
How big are these Confederate exile communities? IIRC the OTL settlement in Brazil had something like 20,000 people. Here though the exodus seems to be orders of magnitudes larger.

Care to give us some rough estimates size wise?

From 1864 to 1874:


Cuba (particularly Havana) - we will see about 5,000 - 10,000 settlers in Cuba. Numbers though are hard to estimate as Havana was a way station for many proscribed persons before deciding on their final destinations in Mexico and Brazil.

Brazil - 30,000 to 40,000 offered land grants by Emperor Dom Pedro around Sao Paulo to encourage the cultivation of cotton. Nasty rumours circulated about slaves being smuggled out of the US to Brazil, but no evidence has ever been found of a single incident. None the less the rumours caused the US government to closely monitor the Brazilian colonies, and unlike Mexico, emigration fro the south to Brazil was discouraged.

Mexico - over a ten year period it is estimated that between 200,000 and 250,000 American settlers moved to Mexican colonies. Only a minority of these were proscribed persons and their families. Many southern citizens moved to Mexico of their own accord (especially from South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana and Texas). Although the three main 'official' colonies at Carlotta, Coat'n'peg and Three Valleys would be the cores, unofficial concentrations would occur at Tuxpan, Veracruz, Tampico and Mexico City itself (Tampico and Mexico Cty beginning the only two outside the former state of Veracruz). Settlement in the Northern Mexican states was discouraged by both the Republican and Imperial factions. The Republicans saw the Americans as Imperial lackeys and the Imperial Government saw dangers in allowing American colonies too close to the border.
 

From 1864 to 1874:


Cuba (particularly Havana) - we will see about 5,000 - 10,000 settlers in Cuba. Numbers though are hard to estimate as Havana was a way station for many proscribed persons before deciding on their final destinations in Mexico and Brazil.

Brazil - 30,000 to 40,000 offered land grants by Emperor Dom Pedro around Sao Paulo to encourage the cultivation of cotton. Nasty rumours circulated about slaves being smuggled out of the US to Brazil, but no evidence has ever been found of a single incident. None the less the rumours caused the US government to closely monitor the Brazilian colonies, and unlike Mexico, emigration fro the south to Brazil was discouraged.

Mexico - over a ten year period it is estimated that between 200,000 and 250,000 American settlers moved to Mexican colonies. Only a minority of these were proscribed persons and their families. Many southern citizens moved to Mexico of their own accord (especially from South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana and Texas). Although the three main 'official' colonies at Carlotta, Coat'n'peg and Three Valleys would be the cores, unofficial concentrations would occur at Tuxpan, Veracruz, Tampico and Mexico City itself (Tampico and Mexico Cty beginning the only two outside the former state of Veracruz). Settlement in the Northern Mexican states was discouraged by both the Republican and Imperial factions. The Republicans saw the Americans as Imperial lackeys and the Imperial Government saw dangers in allowing American colonies too close to the border.

Hrm. To what extent will the Confederate diaspora remain coherent? In our TL, the Brazilian Confederates seem to have assimilated and intermarried quite thoroughly. That seems unlikely to happen in Mexico except in the truly long term, and might be less the case in the other communities as well.
 

From 1864 to 1874:


Cuba (particularly Havana) - we will see about 5,000 - 10,000 settlers in Cuba. Numbers though are hard to estimate as Havana was a way station for many proscribed persons before deciding on their final destinations in Mexico and Brazil.

Brazil - 30,000 to 40,000 offered land grants by Emperor Dom Pedro around Sao Paulo to encourage the cultivation of cotton. Nasty rumours circulated about slaves being smuggled out of the US to Brazil, but no evidence has ever been found of a single incident. None the less the rumours caused the US government to closely monitor the Brazilian colonies, and unlike Mexico, emigration fro the south to Brazil was discouraged.

Mexico - over a ten year period it is estimated that between 200,000 and 250,000 American settlers moved to Mexican colonies. Only a minority of these were proscribed persons and their families. Many southern citizens moved to Mexico of their own accord (especially from South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana and Texas). Although the three main 'official' colonies at Carlotta, Coat'n'peg and Three Valleys would be the cores, unofficial concentrations would occur at Tuxpan, Veracruz, Tampico and Mexico City itself (Tampico and Mexico Cty beginning the only two outside the former state of Veracruz). Settlement in the Northern Mexican states was discouraged by both the Republican and Imperial factions. The Republicans saw the Americans as Imperial lackeys and the Imperial Government saw dangers in allowing American colonies too close to the border.

Hmm so roughly 300,000 Confederates leave the South, the majority seeking asylum in Mexico. In three particular areas. That's going to have some butterflies for sure on Mexican history.

Interesting about the former state of Veracruz...
 
Neither the US nor any Mexican factions would be happy with Confederate exiles settling too close to the US border. The potential for banditry/raids across the border would be way too high. While Indian/Native American raiding across the border was a nuisance, in reality it was fairly low level and never caused serious diplomatic problems. On the other hand, ex-Confederate raiders/bandits with military experience and good arms would be the cause of serious friction. Unless the Mexicans were able to squash this rapidly, you could see the US authorizing hot pursuit across the border or even a punitive expedition like Pershing's 1916 effort. That could have some serious repurcusions.

I'm not sure, but didn't Mexico still have, in the 1860's, laws limiting land ownership to Catholics, and other religious tests for full rights? Given the overwhelming bulk of CSA refugees were Protestant and the general anti-Catholic feeling in the USA at that time... To some extent this applies to all Latin American countries/territories Confederates might go to, in the mid-1860's they were all much more "Catholic" in terms of policies, rights etc than today. Also, of course, the language issue.

Some of the very top of the CSA political class who left the USA OTL, like Judah Benjamin, ended up in the UK. I expect this "cream" might do so ITTL. Would te British actively encourage CSA exiles to help fill up empty spaces with white, English speaking, Protestants? South Africa and Australia certainly have room and opportunities for such. For many might require at least free passage, or would the British not want immigrants tainted with "slavocracy" in their Empire?
 
Hrm. To what extent will the Confederate diaspora remain coherent? In our TL, the Brazilian Confederates seem to have assimilated and intermarried quite thoroughly. That seems unlikely to happen in Mexico except in the truly long term, and might be less the case in the other communities as well.

You will see a real movement to maintain the 'best' elements of southern culture and a distinct identity within Mexico...at least in the short term. The numbers will allow them to achieve that to a degree along with other demographic changes coming in Mexico...

Hmm so roughly 300,000 Confederates leave the South, the majority seeking asylum in Mexico. In three particular areas. That's going to have some butterflies for sure on Mexican history.

Interesting about the former state of Veracruz...

It won't be a surprise to experts on Maximilian (I am not one) that he divided the country into 60 departments in OTL. I am amending the number (mainly to allow sufficient gerrymandering to guarantee foreign immigrants a voice in government) but in principle he will see to abolish the old states and their boundaries.

Neither the US nor any Mexican factions would be happy with Confederate exiles settling too close to the US border. The potential for banditry/raids across the border would be way too high. While Indian/Native American raiding across the border was a nuisance, in reality it was fairly low level and never caused serious diplomatic problems. On the other hand, ex-Confederate raiders/bandits with military experience and good arms would be the cause of serious friction. Unless the Mexicans were able to squash this rapidly, you could see the US authorizing hot pursuit across the border or even a punitive expedition like Pershing's 1916 effort. That could have some serious repurcusions.

I'm not sure, but didn't Mexico still have, in the 1860's, laws limiting land ownership to Catholics, and other religious tests for full rights? Given the overwhelming bulk of CSA refugees were Protestant and the general anti-Catholic feeling in the USA at that time... To some extent this applies to all Latin American countries/territories Confederates might go to, in the mid-1860's they were all much more "Catholic" in terms of policies, rights etc than today. Also, of course, the language issue.

Some of the very top of the CSA political class who left the USA OTL, like Judah Benjamin, ended up in the UK. I expect this "cream" might do so ITTL. Would te British actively encourage CSA exiles to help fill up empty spaces with white, English speaking, Protestants? South Africa and Australia certainly have room and opportunities for such. For many might require at least free passage, or would the British not want immigrants tainted with "slavocracy" in their Empire?

We already have hints of the "Texas Rangers" holdouts doing just that. All the more reason to avoid border settlement. Border policing will have critical importance in the next 10 years...

Item number 11 on my to do list for this Chapter - the Catholic Church hates the Exilados Grise, I will cover that but yes Maximilian will have to institute unpopular laws to facilitate these and other settlements. Another way in which he will distance himself from the arch-conservatives...it is a risk...

The British are not going to publicly encourage Southern settlement. The atrocities against Hunter and black soldiers, the slave trading convictions and the stigma of proscription as man who could not be loyal to the country of his birth does not make them desirables as far as the British people and press are concerned. Some may be found in British North America, Bermuda, Bahamas etc but no one is inviting the former Confederate leadership to their salons in London, Paris or Vienna anytime soon...
 
You will see a real movement to maintain the 'best' elements of southern culture and a distinct identity within Mexico...at least in the short term. The numbers will allow them to achieve that to a degree along with other demographic changes coming in Mexico...

Hmm, increased persuasion to European immigrants? I've always been curious if it was conceivable that the Second Empire could paint itself as a positive Catholic power to Europeans in order to attempt to harness a balancing portion of the population.

It won't be a surprise to experts on Maximilian (I am not one) that he divided the country into 60 departments in OTL. I am amending the number (mainly to allow sufficient gerrymandering to guarantee foreign immigrants a voice in government) but in principle he will see to abolish the old states and their boundaries.

Did not know this. Really love the work you've put in here.

Item number 11 on my to do list for this Chapter - the Catholic Church hates the Exilados Grise, I will cover that but yes Maximilian will have to institute unpopular laws to facilitate these and other settlements. Another way in which he will distance himself from the arch-conservatives...it is a risk...

Looking forward to seeing if it pays off :)
 
Originally Posted by TheKnightIrish
It won't be a surprise to experts on Maximilian (I am not one) that he divided the country into 60 departments in OTL. I am amending the number (mainly to allow sufficient gerrymandering to guarantee foreign immigrants a voice in government) but in principle he will see to abolish the old states and their boundaries.

Originally Posted by EnglishCanuck
Did not know this. Really love the work you've put in here.

On further reflection it was 50 departments in the style of the French Government. I have amended this to reflect Maximilian's attempt to empower foreign immigrants and to increase the representation of the cities to balance his reliance on the Church and country conservatives...

I apologise for my poor map adjusting skills...

Second MExican Empire Departments.jpg
 
TTL keeps bringing me back to AH. That said WHEN ARE WE GETTING ANOTHER WAR OR CAMPAIGN? I love the campaign histories so more please.

Also more recent comment - Mad Max of Mexico: his existance p-off the liberals; his liberalism p-off the consevatives; any religious equality legislation p-off the Church; any foreign immigration p-off Mexicans everywhere; finally thid departments plan p-off the state governors (powers in their own right). Mad Max is doomed again.
 
TTL keeps bringing me back to AH. That said WHEN ARE WE GETTING ANOTHER WAR OR CAMPAIGN? I love the campaign histories so more please.

Also more recent comment - Mad Max of Mexico: his existance p-off the liberals; his liberalism p-off the consevatives; any religious equality legislation p-off the Church; any foreign immigration p-off Mexicans everywhere; finally thid departments plan p-off the state governors (powers in their own right). Mad Max is doomed again.

Its is only three posts away!

I didn't say Max would definitely survive. You'll just have to wait to see...
 
For anyone interested I now have a full word document of TTL with illustrations (though it is nowhere near fully edited or proofed yet). PM me if you would like a copy.

In the meantime my Mexican research continues...
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Great minds think alike...

For anyone interested I now have a full word document of TTL with illustrations (though it is nowhere near fully edited or proofed yet). PM me if you would like a copy.

In the meantime my Mexican research continues...

Great minds think alike...

BROS is down Mexico way as well, at the moment.

The great unexamined third force of the contest over the continent.

Do you have Scheina?

Best,
 
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