DBWI: Sealion wasn't such a tremendous success

fdas

fdas

Banned
We know that in OTL, Operation Sealion was a highly successful plan which allowed the Nazis to take Britain. Following this, the Soviet Union was crushed by the Nazis allowing them complete control over Europe. What would have happened if Operation Sealion failed or even never happened at all? Would the Nazis be able to defeat the Soviet Union and emerge victorious in the Second Great War?
 

Caesar Biden

Banned
Well, I don't see any way how the NAZI (North Atlantic Zoological Identification) service couldn't have spread into Britain. The whole word was becoming more and more aware of the dangers of mass extinction, and even the Soviet Union eventually joined, against the wishes of many in their government.

You need to somehow arrest the momentum of this and the Green Earth movement in general.
 
shiftygiant

shiftygiant

Gone Fishin'
Biden&Ceaser'12 said:
Well, I don't see any way how the NAZI (North Atlantic Zoological Identification) service couldn't have spread into Britain. The whole word was becoming more and more aware of the dangers of mass extinction, and even the Soviet Union eventually joined, against the wishes of many in their government.

You need to somehow arrest the momentum of this and the Green Earth movement in general.
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Urgh, another Sealion thread. Well, look, I imagine somehow crippling Rudolf Hess' position as Envimental Minister in the Lettow-Vorbeck Cabinet would be a good way to cripple the NAZI movement and Operation Sealion. Whist he had some... 'curious' tendencies, it's worth remembering how influential his polices were in the German Republic, and how they spread through Europe. I mean, without Hess the NAZI's are pretty much dead in the water. As much influence as Minister-President Hitler had, without Hess founding the Movement then Environmentalism is pretty much on the fringe for a few decades.

I suppose Hess could be killed at Verdun or Thiaumont, if you want him out the picture.
 
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Caesar Biden

Banned
shiftygiant said:
Urgh, another Sealion thread. Well, look, I imagine somehow crippling Rudolf Hess' position as Envimental Minister in the Lettow-Vorbeck Cabinet would be a good way to cripple the NAZI movement. Whist he had some... 'curious' tendencies, it's worth remembering how influential his polices were in the German Republic, and how they spread through Europe. I mean, without Hess the NAZI's are pretty much dead in the water.
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I disagree. Sure, the NAZI's themselves aren't going places, but other movements will simply rise to take their place. Hess didn't help anyone by calling the environmental movement "The Second Great War", or with any of the rest of his radicalism.

If Germany and the United States, two of the three strongest powers in the world at the time, are pushing environmentalism at the time, it's bound to stick.
 

karikon

Banned
Friedrich Weber leadership was also one of the reason for there success.It´s humbling that a simple veterinarian can acomplise so much good in the world. Maybe have earlier leader like Hitler survive, he seams more radical and less pragmatic then Weber.
 

Lost Freeway

Banned
Biden&Ceaser'12 said:
Well, I don't see any way how the NAZI (North Atlantic Zoological Identification) service couldn't have spread into Britain. The whole word was becoming more and more aware of the dangers of mass extinction, and even the Soviet Union eventually joined, against the wishes of many in their government.

You need to somehow arrest the momentum of this and the Green Earth movement in general.
Click to expand...

OOC: Best response to an inane DBWI ever.
 
theg*ddam*hoi2fan

theg*ddam*hoi2fan

Another possibility is not have Britain try to invade Germany via the Frisian Islands. If they hadn't lost all those men and ships there, then things would have been quite different.
 
Tom Colton

Tom Colton

karikon said:
Friedrich Weber leadership was also one of the reason for there success.It´s humbling that a simple veterinarian can acomplise so much good in the world. Maybe have earlier leader like Hitler survive, he seams more radical and less pragmatic then Weber.
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Flattery will get you everywhere.
 
Indicus

Indicus

Biden&Ceaser'12 said:
Well, I don't see any way how the NAZI (North Atlantic Zoological Identification) service couldn't have spread into Britain. The whole word was becoming more and more aware of the dangers of mass extinction, and even the Soviet Union eventually joined, against the wishes of many in their government.

You need to somehow arrest the momentum of this and the Green Earth movement in general.
Click to expand...

OOC: Wow. You're a boss.

IC: I agree. If Operation Sealion had failed and the NAZIs failed to gain their OTL popularity in Britain as a result, NAZI would have been replaced by other ecoist organizations.
 

Cryhavoc101

theg*ddam*hoi2fan said:
Another possibility is not have Britain try to invade Germany via the Frisian Islands. If they hadn't lost all those men and ships there, then things would have been quite different.
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But first they would have to secure the Isle of White from any surprise attack and then sink the German Navies Aircraft carriers.

Once that has been achieved then yes they should definitely have gone the Frisian Island route.
 
Tom Colton

Tom Colton

Cryhavoc101 said:
But first they would have to secure the Isle of White from any surprise attack and then sink the German Navies Aircraft carriers.

Once that has been achieved then yes they should definitely have gone the Frisian Island route.
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We're getting a little confused here.

For Sealion to have worked the way it did, the RN had to be gutted first by the Frisian assault then the surprise attack by the Kriegsmarine at Scapa Flow whilst recuperating, so avoiding either of those disasters would've seen the German odds of winning fall pretty damn dramatically.
 

Caesar Biden

Banned
Lost Freeway said:
OOC: Best response to an inane DBWI ever.
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fjihr said:
OOC: Wow. You're a boss.
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OOC: Thanks.:D

Lost Freeway said:
IC: I agree. If Operation Sealion had failed and the NAZIs failed to gain their OTL popularity in Britain as a result, NAZI would have been replaced by other ecoist organizations.
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How could it have failed, though? Once the NAZIs had gotten off the ground in Germany, it was only a matter of time until pressure from Germany and America brought Britain on board as well. Preventing Hess is one of the better PoDs because it could conceivably stop the NAZI movement from getting its sister organization in Europe. But even then, as you said, something else will just rise up to take its place.
 

DaveB

You're all forgetting the important role Lansbury played in selling the RN to Japan. If that hadn't happened it's doubtful Sealion would have succeeded, and then if Taft hadn't also cancelled the two-ocean navy, it might even have been possible for the USA to win the Pacific war.

Edit: Obviously a debt to Meadow's "Meet the New Boss" for the idea of Lansbury selling off the RN as the only way to get a successful Sealion, though "to Japan" was my extreme take on it. Taft winning in 1940 might have favoured isolation, but I think the USN would still have been safe as the guarantor of that isolation. Two-ocean navy, though... Hmmm, expensive, balanced budgets...
 
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theg*ddam*hoi2fan

theg*ddam*hoi2fan

DaveB said:
You're all forgetting the important role Lansbury played in selling the RN to Japan. If that hadn't happened it's doubtful Sealion would have succeeded, and then if Taft hadn't also cancelled the two-ocean navy, it might even have been possible for the USA to win the Pacific war.
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I doubt that. Not once the Japanese got their King Oni war machines going.
 

Cryhavoc101

theg*ddam*hoi2fan said:
I doubt that. Not once the Japanese got their King Oni war machines going.
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The whole thing would have been unthinkable if only Col Dan Dare hadn't crashed the Rocket ship Anastasia prototype whilst whooing the crowds at Bournemouth that summer. :(

That way the Germans would have been slaughtered trying to cross the channel on their flying raptors
 

overoceans

DaveB said:
You're all forgetting the important role Lansbury played in selling the RN to Japan. If that hadn't happened it's doubtful Sealion would have succeeded, and then if Taft hadn't also cancelled the two-ocean navy, it might even have been possible for the USA to win the Pacific war.

Edit: Obviously a debt to Meadow's "Meet the New Boss" for the idea of Lansbury selling off the RN as the only way to get a successful Sealion, though "to Japan" was my extreme take on it. Taft winning in 1940 might have favoured isolation, but I think the USN would still have been safe as the guarantor of that isolation. Two-ocean navy, though... Hmmm, expensive, balanced budgets...
Click to expand...

OOC: Actually, ANGELA Lansbury played a significant role in stopping Sealion. At least, according to that Disney flick.
 

Khaine

And let's not forget the historic moment when the Reichstag started to fly and landed on Birmingham palace killing the entire British royal family in one go.
 
Clandango

Clandango

Khaine said:
And let's not forget the historic moment when the Reichstag started to fly and landed on Birmingham palace killing the entire British royal family in one go.
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Fortunately the Royals had a branch in County Cork, as well as some cousins who married a bit beneath themselves with those plebeians from Brighton Beach. Really, what is the world coming too?
 
theg*ddam*hoi2fan

theg*ddam*hoi2fan

Cryhavoc101 said:
The whole thing would have been unthinkable if only Col Dan Dare hadn't crashed the Rocket ship Anastasia prototype whilst whooing the crowds at Bournemouth that summer. :(

That way the Germans would have been slaughtered trying to cross the channel on their flying raptors
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True. Though it was the cyber-enhanced tyrannosaurs that really doomed Britain. With the laser guns.

And now Japan has a battleship that can take off from the water and fly into space. What a world we live in...
 
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