AHC: Modernize Persia
- Thread starter mlp
- Start date
Hmmm, I assume you mean under the Qajar Dynasty? If so then one of the best bets would be to have Naser al-Din Shah Qajar survive his assassination. Under Nasar massive reforms were initiated. He curbed the secular power of the clergy, introduced telegraph and postal services, built roads, opened the first school offering education along Western lines, and launched Iran's first newspaper. He had the potential to begin full scale industrialization but it was cut short by his assassination. After his assassination Persia and the Qajar dynasty went into a massive decline. So if he lives longer, say to 70, and dies naturally then we could see a different Persia, and maybe a different successor. But you would also need the Government to somehow maintain/ regain its central authority. By the end of the dynasty the government had little control outside Tehran. You somehow need to fix that.
According to what I read right now in wikipedia (damn my shallow knowledge), it seems letting Amir Kabir not be executed may also lead to some positive growth in Persia- he seems to be a great reformer; what is your opinion on Kabir? How important was he in the modernization of Persia?
The Shah of Persia stays in power. He had distanced himself from the US in the 70s, so maybe he would've moved to the USSR and have stayed in their influence.
Relevent Wikipedia bit.
Don't know of anything pre-1900, though, sorry!
Relevent Wikipedia bit.
Don't know of anything pre-1900, though, sorry!
Have a Dynasty other the. The Qadjars that saw Iran as simply their personal money pouch. Iran was modernizing the issue was how Iran was modernizing, which was giving away rights to natural resources or build railroads and such to European interests which often enough shut out the locals from any role other then laborers. In one instance a Qadjar Shah signed a deal with a Brit to have a building monopoly but then the Ulama made a stink so the people did too and so the Shah canceled the deal- only to cancel the deal the Shah had to pay the Brit money from the people and give him a controlling stake in the National Bank.
Deleted member 14881
I would start at the 1840's, and in the ww1 analogue if Russia wins they would ask for the Shia parts of iraq, Kuwait, and the eastern bits of Saudi Arabia.
This is a far-fetched idea, but I am planning this to make a ATL world that is led by these 6 countries:I would start at the 1840's, and in the ww1 analogue if Russia wins they would ask for the Shia parts of iraq, Kuwait, and the eastern bits of Saudi Arabia.
Kongo, Korea, Persia, Brazil, Germany, USA. This plan would be more interesting with a Persian Arabia...
Deleted member 14881
Zeppelinair, if you want a Persia wank add the above and add a vassalized Kurdistan, Syria under a Hashemite that also controls the Hejaz, and expansion to the east?
A question I'm missing the answer to - why would Russia, with Persia in its sphere of influence, want it to modern?
A stronger Persia is a Persia able to act independently of Russia, and possibly even one with eyes at the areas Russia has taken that were at one point (not even the distant past, if you look at the west) ruled by Persia.
A stronger Persia is a Persia able to act independently of Russia, and possibly even one with eyes at the areas Russia has taken that were at one point (not even the distant past, if you look at the west) ruled by Persia.
Seems like a good start of the Hashemite Kingdom of Syria, instead of Jordan in OTL!
Since Persia is Shia-majority, how about a Sunni-majority major power that is able to balance out the powers in the Post-Ottoman Middle East?
Sounds like a idea. I'll implement that in post-WWII political arena of the Middle East...sounds like a good "United Arab Republic"!
What if we have Timur win an even more decisive battle of Ankara, perhaps killing or capturing not also Bayezid but his sons. I'm only bringing this up because Persia, will eventually have to deal with the problem of the Ottomans sooner or later. Maybe Russia wants to prevent Great Britain from getting any real influence in the Middle East, by propping up and making Persia strong.
Exactly. I just don't know how Persia would be able to pull a Meiji though..
katchen
Banned
This is where having Austria in the Black Sea and from there, the Caucasus, as we have discussed in other TL contexts,, making the Caucasus another Balkans from the 1850s can help Persia a great deal. Persia's problem was that it was caught between a duopoly between Russia and Great Britain. Give Persia access to a third player--Austria-Hungary--and the Shah may actually be able to get things like railroads and especially railroads to the Black Sea and then Europe, built.And modernization can continue from there.
Not one they could hold without destroying both the Russians and the Turks.
katchen
Banned
Unless Austria allied with Russia against Turkey in the leadup to what became the Crimean War IOTL. Austria could get a piece of the Balkans (Wallachia and Moldova with a corridor of international water from Galatai (then called Galatz) to the Black Sea and perhaps Trabizon on the other side of the Black Sea (which has a large Greek minority). Russia gets Dobruja as a corridor to Bulgaria and Serbia--the Slavic Balkans. And both ally agaainst the Turks and the British. If the Austrians help the Russians hold the Dardenelles against the Royal Navy at Galippoli ---(60 years early ITTL!) there will be no Crimean War because the British and French cannot get to the Black Sea. I can see how this could lead to a more general European conflict, since Russia would then need to keep the Royal Navy out of the Baltic Sea and that would involve transiting Sweden and Denmark to hold the British at bay at Helsinor and the more shallow other Danish straits. An Anglo-French invasion of Austria might then be in the offing as the Concert of Europe breaks down entirely. As well as British seizure of Russia's Pacific Coast from Sitka, Alaska to Petropavlovsk Kamchatky to Okhotsk, and if the British are successfully held at bay in the Baltic, perhaps a final push to win the war via the White Sea and the Kara Sea using steam gunboats on the North Dvina, Ob and Yensei. The British do not give up easily when they feel that their interests are at stake.
) there will be no Crimean War because the British and French cannot get to the Black Sea. I can see how this could lead to a more general European conflict, since Russia would then need to keep the Royal Navy out of the Baltic Sea and that would involve transiting Sweden and Denmark to hold the British at bay at Helsinor and the more shallow other Danish straits. An Anglo-French invasion of Austria might then be in the offing as the Concert of Europe breaks down entirely. As well as British seizure of Russia's Pacific Coast from Sitka, Alaska to Petropavlovsk Kamchatky to Okhotsk, and if the British are successfully held at bay in the Baltic, perhaps a final push to win the war via the White Sea and the Kara Sea using steam gunboats on the North Dvina, Ob and Yensei. The British do not give up easily when they feel that their interests are at stake.