The Grand Duchy of Salonika (Napoleonic)

Grey Wolf

Donor
Quite a vivid alternate history dream, set in the Grand Duchy of Salonika, a French client successor state from the Napoleonic period, which also owned Trebizond. It was 1875 and I was the 3rd Grand Duke of Salonika, the grandson of the first, although in the dream there is no name given to any of them.

Russia owns Constantinople, whilst France owns Smyrna. Hungary is an independent kingdom under a Davout, Illyria is French, Janina has retained its independence but is hellenised, and the rest of Greece is French. Russia has protectorates over a slew of Eastern Balkan states - Serbia, Moldavia, Wallachia and Transylvania, and owns directly the Bulgarian lands (on the basis that Bulgarians are Russian), together with Eastern Thrace and Constantinople as well as the province across the Sea of Marmara and the Northern shore of Anatolia as far East as the border with Trebizond.

The Grand Duchy of Salonika is basically Thessaly, Southern Macedonia, Salonika and Western Thrace, and its ruling family descended from one of the 14 new Marshals that Napoleon created for the entry into Constantinople in 1812 from amongst his generals, one of whom was Eugene de Beauharnais, but the general whose line now rules Salonika was someone who in OTL never rose above the rank of general.

France has Western and central Anatolia and its lands link up with Egypt, its ally, whose Northern border goes beyond Antioch and Aleppo. Mesopotamia is independent under its Mameluke rulers, and sees much Franco-Russian rivalry for influence. Greater Armenia, encompassing Erzerum and Erzincan, is independent as a Russian protectorate as are Greater Georgia and Greater Armenia. Cyprus is French.

That's the map that I saw in my head as the dream went on - I don't know for sure about anywhere else in the world, but there were some clues later.

The Grand Duchy of Salonika is hellenised French, or maybe frenchified hellenes, a merger of the two cultures. Its two halves are distinct. Salonika has an assembly that is vocal and difficult, even though the Grand Duke can appoint the First Minister and the cabinet, but he needs assembly approval for the budget etc.

Trebizond is more oligarchial, and is ruled by a Grand Quartermaster as the agent of the Grand Duke, and the merchant assembly which is much less of a problem to deal with.

Three routes link the two halves: 1) the initial sea lane, the original way of passage from Salonika through the Dardanelles, across the Sea of Marmara, through the Bosphorus and along the Northern coast of Anatolia to Trebizond; 2) the Grand European Railway from Paris to India, but this runs through Russian-owned Constantinople and for Trebizond one would then take the branch line along the Southern coast of the Black Sea, which is also Russian owned; 3) is to take ship from Salonika to Smyrna in French Anatolia, and then the branch line to join the GER as it goes through central Anatolia, including Ankara, before then taking the branch line to Trebizond.

The first scene occurs briefly in Salonika's assembly with the leader of the Opposition deriding the Grand Duke's Intelligence Chief as "a French tool" and the First Minister defending him by pointing out that he is not French but a Fleming, to which the Opposition leader snaps that Flanders is a part of France. As a note the Intelligence Chief had a name something like Duran, Durande, Durante etc

Grand Ducal revenues are quite good, not least because the Grand Ducal family owns large estates, confiscated from the Muslims in 1812, but the assembly in Salonika has residual control of finances once household and government expenses (civil service etc) are paid, even though there is still a surplus of "crown" estate moneys on top of general state revenues.

In some ways Trebizond has become more developed than Salonika. It has its own railway industry, and runs the branch line to the GER even when it enters French territory, even selling locomotives and rolling stock to Russia and France within Anatolia. The same, wide, gauge is used by all.

Mobile steam traction engines (like you see at vintage shows) have also been developed in Trebizond, and exported to Anatolian France and Russia, as well as to Armenia, Georgia and Azerbaijan and back to Salonika, where there is only a small subsiduary factory.

The Grand Quartermaster is a crook and has been siphoning off money for years under the 2nd Grand Duke, who was a pretty ineffective ruler. The Grand Quartermaster (unfortunately never named in the dream) has links to organised crime, both local Greek, which is hand-in-hand with the merchant oligarchs, and from the Kingdom of Italy (French) which is France's main mercantile arm, and includes Pisa, Genoa and Venice in its realm.

The Grand Duke (in the dream, this is me of course) is visited in Salonika by Maria, a woman in her twenties of joint Greek and French parentage whno works as an agent for the Intelligence Chief, and poses as a Factory Agent in Trebizond. She tells the Grand Duke that the Grand Duke is crooked, and they take ship from Salonika to Trebizond, to arrive without fanfare as a surprise.

Upon arriving at Trebizond, Maria has the Grand Duke ask to see the steam traction wortks and the Grand Quartermaster is only too pleased to show them off (sort of like the jewel in the crown of his administration). Whilst they are in the factory complex and he is smiling and beaming in pride, Maria drops her bombshell, revealing that she knows about the secret factory behind the main one, funded by moneys which the Grand Quartermaster has filtered from the budget without permission. With no choice but to comply, he shows her and the Grand Duke this other factory.

The second factory is building an armoured and armed version of the mobile steam traction engine, based on two bogies, one spring-loaded, and to be covered with an armoured carapace, as yet still in bits.

The Grand Duke is delighted at this unforeseen technological development and pardons the Grand Quartermaster, but gets him to formalise things, drawing up an agreement that sets the works on an official footing. Maria is disgruntled but not so much that she doesn't share the Grand Duke's bed that night.

A FEW WEEKS LATER...
The Grand Duke is meeting with his Intelligence Chief and a naval designer who is quite well advanced in constructing a submarine prototype at Salonika. He's Scottish by origin and named Iain, and is one of two Scots to very briefly feature in the dream - the other is called Craig and had some sort of Guard role in Salonika, but whilst I remember him being "present" in the dream, the only definite recall I have of him is in connection to the naval designer, as it was something of note for two Scots to have prominent positions in Salonika.

Maria bursts into this meeting and interrupts them to bring news from Trebizond. The Grand Quartermaster has been assassinated by a bomb which has blown up his house-cum-office, leaving only smoking ruins.

The Grand Duke and Maria head once more for Trebizond, taking this time the direct and quickest route, using the royal train which passes sealed and non-stop through Constantinople and along the Northern coast. The Grand Duke and Maria spend most of their time in the sleeping compartment, working on their tension by having constant sex, as there is nothing they can do from a distance, and they need the full facts before they can act, so the journey would otherwise be a period of purgatory if they do not distract themselves.

Arriving at Trebizond, one of the Greek merchants from the assembly there is their official greeter. He informs them that an initial investigation has revealed that the assassin was linked to organised crime, probably Italian, and it was some vendetta against the Grand Quartermaster in person, and not against his office or the state itself.

The Grand Duke and Maria visit the armoured traction works, and this time are presented with the completed Mark I model. Some of the design/construction team want to call it a Tortoise, after the Roman shield deployment for storming gateways, but the Grand Duke and Maria come up with the name Armadillo. The Grand Duke is impressed by the technical tour, being shown how the contraption operates by the Chief Engineer. The front bogey mounts the artillery piece ("otherwise it could only fire when running away" the Chief Engineer remarks), with springs for its recoil, whilst the rear bogey contains the steam engine, and over both is an iron framework which supports the armoured plates.

The Grand Duke points out that it would only be of much use in cities, though it could be brought by ship or train to the city then off-loaded to assault it. The Chief Engineer is a bit put out at what seems to be a belittlement of his masterpiece, but the Grand Duke explains his theory - a Mark I design proves the concept, the Mark II proves that the concept can become operational, the Mark III is the first to see widespread use in conflict, and the Mark IV is the ultimate weapon with all the flaws ironed out, especially those learnt in combat. The Chief Engineer looks at him as if he is a bit nuts.

A messenger arrives, breathless, to say that the French Ambassador ir here in Trebizond, having travelled non-stop from Salonika to see them in person; it must be something vital!

The Grand Duke and Maria return quickly to the Grand Ducal residence in Trebizond and entertain the French ambassador who tells them that shots have been exchanged in Africa between British and French parties (rumoured to be in the disputed lands South of Egypt), an experimental French ship is missing in British waters, and that the British ambassador to Berlin has been arrested and has admitted plotting to blow up the French arsenal in that city.

The Grand Duke in turn points out that there are always rumours of "shots fired in Africa", he gets the Ambassador to admit that the missing ship is a prototype submarine whose proving voyage was to penetrate unnoticed into Plymouth's estuary, and that the British ambassador in Berlin made his admissions under torture.

Nevertheless, they all head back to Salonika, the French ambassador via the rail link to Smyrna, and the Grand Duke and Maria via fast steam packet ship, thus avoiding crossing Russian lands, although sailing under the Bosphorus Swing Bridge.

Once back in Salonika, the Grand Duke meets with his Intelligence Chief to be informed that the crisis has blown over. The shots fired report has proved to be false. The submarine has been located, having sunk itself when its seals broke in a crash dive, and that no more is being heard out of Berlin, but rumours from London are that the British ambassador is being secretly repatriated.

----------

Whilst a dream, and thus a narrative, I thought it had interesting AH detail, tho I can't say what was happening where the dream was not looking - eg with Montenegro, or Bosnia

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 

Grey Wolf

Donor
Viewing this as a TL starting in the middle, the question that occurred to me most as I wrote it up was about Montenegro, Bosnia and Croatia. If Russia has Transylvania, then the Davout Kingdom of Hungary probably got compensated by dominion over Croatia, and since there is no way that Bosnia would have been given up by Napoleon to Russian-client Serbia, then I would imagine it would be unified with Croatia, under Hungarian control.

Montenegro has probably evolved more as a French client in this scenario, and probably retains its independence

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 

Grey Wolf

Donor
The impression I got from the dream was that in 1812 or thereabouts Napoleon and Alexander agreed to partition the Ottoman empire and actually did something about it

I think it would make a good timeline

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
You have a map of this? It's pretty well detailed.

Indeed, it's extremely fascinating.

I'd suggest contacting Bruce Munro and see if he'll map it for you ;)


Obviously a world where the British don't rise to Superpower status or are beaten back down to "ordinary" Great Power status by Napoleon.
Either way things seem to be heading towards another great war (WW2 if the NWs are WW1)
 
So along with the marshal who sired the dynasty that now rules the Grand Duchy of Salonika, the descendants of the other thirteen Marshals also rule their own respective states aligned with Napoleonic France?
 
I'm not quite Bruce Munro, but I've decided to take a stab at, since it's a really fascinating world. Not going to try and tackle outside Europe, the Near East, and North Africa though. Unless I just did a UCS or B Munroist-style map, that would be a bit too ambitious for me I think, and in any case would require a lot of assumptions about the world and making stuff up.

Am I correct in assuming that the areas just stated to be French, without specifying them as "Kingdom of x" or "Principality of y", like Anatolia and Greece, are directly part of the French state?
 

Grey Wolf

Donor
I'm not quite Bruce Munro, but I've decided to take a stab at, since it's a really fascinating world. Not going to try and tackle outside Europe, the Near East, and North Africa though. Unless I just did a UCS or B Munroist-style map, that would be a bit too ambitious for me I think, and in any case would require a lot of assumptions about the world and making stuff up.

Am I correct in assuming that the areas just stated to be French, without specifying them as "Kingdom of x" or "Principality of y", like Anatolia and Greece, are directly part of the French state?

Yes, they were definitely French colonial territory, or even French integral territory one supposes like Illyria

I'd love to see a map :) I can posit ideas about the rest of Europe as would make sense for this world, but of course apart from Flanders, and some idea about Prussia, they didn't feature in the dream.

Egypt felt like it had the size and dominion of Mehmed Ali's at its zenith

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 

Grey Wolf

Donor
So along with the marshal who sired the dynasty that now rules the Grand Duchy of Salonika, the descendants of the other thirteen Marshals also rule their own respective states aligned with Napoleonic France?

I didn't get the "impression" that all of them do, but Davout and presumably Murat do. The 14 were new Marshals that were created in 1812 as part of Napoleon's grand entrance into Constantinople. Of course, Davout and Murat were already Marshals before that. I don't "know" who the others were, apart from Eugene.

Odd describing what you "know" in a dream!

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Odd describing what you "know" in a dream!

It is one of the fascinating things about dreams, that they can function as a narrative where "you" the audience lack information that "you" the character are well aware of. Indeed the reverse is also true.

May I say before I begin further that there are a number of science fiction settings in which there would be a very lucrative market for your dreams. That's just a plain fact.

The setting is fascinating. Fortunately as a narrative it escapes conundrums about plausibility - if French départments in Cappadocia don't make sense then, hey, they must be colonies. If it's not clearly established in the.... canon.?.. of the dream, then it can be adjusted to suit plausibility. I'm especially intrigued as to the status of Great Britain in this world. A France presumably at or beyond its peak Napoleonic borders and dominating Central Europe as well as portions of the Balkans, Anatolia, and Egypt.... Well, it's just that the result would be an industrial powerhouse with which Britain alone would be hard-pressed to compete. And yet the context seems to imply Britain as a credible threat to the French hegemony....

Hrm. Perhaps Britain and Russia drifted into an alliance against the French behemoth out of mutual security concerns?
 

Grey Wolf

Donor
It is one of the fascinating things about dreams, that they can function as a narrative where "you" the audience lack information that "you" the character are well aware of. Indeed the reverse is also true.

May I say before I begin further that there are a number of science fiction settings in which there would be a very lucrative market for your dreams. That's just a plain fact.

The setting is fascinating. Fortunately as a narrative it escapes conundrums about plausibility - if French départments in Cappadocia don't make sense then, hey, they must be colonies. If it's not clearly established in the.... canon.?.. of the dream, then it can be adjusted to suit plausibility. I'm especially intrigued as to the status of Great Britain in this world. A France presumably at or beyond its peak Napoleonic borders and dominating Central Europe as well as portions of the Balkans, Anatolia, and Egypt.... Well, it's just that the result would be an industrial powerhouse with which Britain alone would be hard-pressed to compete. And yet the context seems to imply Britain as a credible threat to the French hegemony....

Hrm. Perhaps Britain and Russia drifted into an alliance against the French behemoth out of mutual security concerns?

Thanks for the comments!

There was certainly a sense of deep suspicion and rivalry between France and Russia, something akin to spheres of interest and areas where they both vy for interest, and sometimes a desire not to go through Russian territory, tho quite why I wasn't clear on.

Regarding Britain they definitely seemed to be as equal a threat to France as Russia. I'd imagine its possible that with France heavily involved in the East, and with six decades having passed, Britain may well be quite influential in Western Europe, tho I got the impression that Prussia, whilst independent, was still dominated by France, hence the arsenal there.

I don't really know about India, only that the GER ran there, one assumes to Delhi which might still be ruled by the Mughals.

I guess with Austria reduced and Prussia dominated, and the Ottoman Empire obliterated, the great powers would be France, Britain and Russia, and perhaps on the list also the USA, Spain (maybe Bonapartist) and Holland (maybe also Bonapartist) and possibly by 1875 the latter two have moved from direct vassals to mere allies of France, and thus are able to align with Britain over certain issues?

Egypt may be a pseudo great power given its territorial expanse, and presumably Mehmed Ali's reforms

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 

Grey Wolf

Donor
I suppose that a French victory does not necessarily imply a British defeat, since Britain's policy was to run the wars through coalitions, and if it ran out of partners and met a France focused on the East and willing to make peace in the West then it may do so simply out of exhaustion, and a desire to end the constant fighting

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
I suppose that a French victory does not necessarily imply a British defeat, since Britain's policy was to run the wars through coalitions, and if it ran out of partners and met a France focused on the East and willing to make peace in the West then it may do so simply out of exhaustion, and a desire to end the constant fighting

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

I'm wondering if there might also have been more agreement on their respective spheres of influence. That is if France is recognised as having "Europe" in it's sphere perhaps it recognised British control of its colonies in the Americas, Africa, and India that were returned post Napoleon OTL?

I'm not sure what to make of the lack of any mention of the US - no Louisiana Purchase? No War of 1812?

Did you have any idea of what happened to Scandinavia?
How did the ATL Gunboat war between UK and Sweden vs Denmark-Norway turnout?
 
He seemed to imply the POD was in 1812 or around then, so there would still be a Louisiana Purchase and probably still a War of 1812. With a far more successful Napoleon, perhaps the US is more in the French orbit than OTL.

While making my map, I got to thinking about the state of the US, as well as what happens to the Muslims in Anatolia and the Balkans. The Grand Duke of Salonika was stated to have large holdings confiscated from the Muslims, so despite Napoleon's apparent favorable view of Islam in OTL, there is substantial dispossession even in the French territories, and if their treatment of the Circassians is any indication, it would be even worse in the Russian ones. Perhaps this could trigger substantial emigration from Anatolia, to remaining Muslim powers and/or to the United States?

Those who do leave would likely not be very fond of the French, and if the US is more in the French orbit, those who do vote would perhaps gravitate towards the anti-French, pro-British Federalists, especially as apparently many Muslim traders ended up in Massachusetts, a Federalist stronghold (Although they didn't tend to settle). On the other hand, maybe increased pro-French and anti-British sentiment in the US could lead to a successful Hartford Convention and New England seceding from the Union, ala Decades of Darkness.

EDIT: My finished map of the scenario here: https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showpost.php?p=4880202&postcount=2818
 
Last edited:

Grey Wolf

Donor
Courtesy of a night of heavy Victoria II modding, here is a map!

Germany is not sorted, apart from Bavaria and Saxony. There would need to be Westphalia included in this, and maybe Poland's Western borders aren't right.

I'll need to look at some Napoleonic maps and work these things out. What needs to be considered on top of that is that there would be A PEACE TREATY of some kind that ties everything else up once Britain decides to accept the inevitable. Such a treaty may well shift some other borders around so that what people think they know about Napoleonic borders may end up somewhat different in areas. For example, would Austria have regained Silesia as the price for Vienna accepting the finality of Hungarian independence and Bavarian gains.

I've taken this approach with the Kingdom of Italy seeing that over time it would evolve whilst still remaining a vassal of France (its a sub-kingdom whose king is the French heir).

I also need to separate Sicily from Naples, which means creating a new tag for Naples.

Moldavia, Wallachia, Transylvania and Serbia in the West, and Armenia, Azerbaijan and Georgia in the East are Russian protectorates. Croatia is a vassal of Hungary.

There would be an alliance system which binds Poland and Salonika to France, for certain, but the rest is intriguing as there would have been six decades by 1875.

And should Iraq be renamed to Mesopotamia?

Then, beyond Europe, one needs to look at India. I am thinking the Madras area would be French, Delhi under the Mughals, Britain still present around Bombay albeit in a reduced way from OTL, but strongest in Bengal/Assam/Burma where by 1875 they are likely to have built up a significant holding.

And then there's the Americas!

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

salonika1.jpg
 

Grey Wolf

Donor
He seemed to imply the POD was in 1812 or around then, so there would still be a Louisiana Purchase and probably still a War of 1812. With a far more successful Napoleon, perhaps the US is more in the French orbit than OTL.

While making my map, I got to thinking about the state of the US, as well as what happens to the Muslims in Anatolia and the Balkans. The Grand Duke of Salonika was stated to have large holdings confiscated from the Muslims, so despite Napoleon's apparent favorable view of Islam in OTL, there is substantial dispossession even in the French territories, and if their treatment of the Circassians is any indication, it would be even worse in the Russian ones. Perhaps this could trigger substantial emigration from Anatolia, to remaining Muslim powers and/or to the United States?

Those who do leave would likely not be very fond of the French, and if the US is more in the French orbit, those who do vote would perhaps gravitate towards the anti-French, pro-British Federalists, especially as apparently many Muslim traders ended up in Massachusetts, a Federalist stronghold (Although they didn't tend to settle). On the other hand, maybe increased pro-French and anti-British sentiment in the US could lead to a successful Hartford Convention and New England seceding from the Union, ala Decades of Darkness.

EDIT: My finished map of the scenario here: https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showpost.php?p=4880202&postcount=2818

Thank you very much!

Do you want to compare it with my map and see if we can blend them?

Its a good point on your map with Bessarabia remaining part of Moldavia, I should have remembered that.

I honestly wasn't sure what to do with Norway. If Sweden is seen to be more a French friend I thought maybe it should go as per OTL. But then again, how much of a French friend was Denmark ?

I would imagine Austria would end up as a kingdom, simply due to its size and the fact that its neighbours in Bavaria, Wurttemburg etc are.

I had France's holdings in Anatolia and in India mean that they never went after Algiers. I think the Bonapartes would continue to have better relations with the Dey than did the Bourbons who in part resented Algiers' claims on French moneys because the debt was run up by Napoleon

Also, I reckoned that Poland would end up a kingdom, since Russia is getting what they want in the South.

I will comment on the rest in time, but thank you very much for helping me clarify Germany! I hadn't a clue where to start beyond Bavaria and Saxony last night!

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 

Grey Wolf

Donor
I'm wondering if there might also have been more agreement on their respective spheres of influence. That is if France is recognised as having "Europe" in it's sphere perhaps it recognised British control of its colonies in the Americas, Africa, and India that were returned post Napoleon OTL?

I'm not sure what to make of the lack of any mention of the US - no Louisiana Purchase? No War of 1812?

Did you have any idea of what happened to Scandinavia?
How did the ATL Gunboat war between UK and Sweden vs Denmark-Norway turnout?

Regarding lack of mention of the US, I guess it was because it was a dream and the focus was on the immediate area.

I was thinking France would end up pre-eminent in Southern India, in alliance with Mysore, but that other holdings existing AT THAT TIME would remain British, but that British expansion in the area of India would be confined to the East; Assam, Burma etc

Scandinavia is something that needs sorting out, since my initial view and Aesir's have differed in the maps.

Of course, the whole question of what on Earth has gone on in Central and South America needs addressing - especially if Joseph is secured on the throne in Madrid, I don't see France letting all of Spain's colonies become independent.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 

Grey Wolf

Donor
He seemed to imply the POD was in 1812 or around then, so there would still be a Louisiana Purchase and probably still a War of 1812. With a far more successful Napoleon, perhaps the US is more in the French orbit than OTL.

While making my map, I got to thinking about the state of the US, as well as what happens to the Muslims in Anatolia and the Balkans. The Grand Duke of Salonika was stated to have large holdings confiscated from the Muslims, so despite Napoleon's apparent favorable view of Islam in OTL, there is substantial dispossession even in the French territories, and if their treatment of the Circassians is any indication, it would be even worse in the Russian ones. Perhaps this could trigger substantial emigration from Anatolia, to remaining Muslim powers and/or to the United States?

Those who do leave would likely not be very fond of the French, and if the US is more in the French orbit, those who do vote would perhaps gravitate towards the anti-French, pro-British Federalists, especially as apparently many Muslim traders ended up in Massachusetts, a Federalist stronghold (Although they didn't tend to settle). On the other hand, maybe increased pro-French and anti-British sentiment in the US could lead to a successful Hartford Convention and New England seceding from the Union, ala Decades of Darkness.

EDIT: My finished map of the scenario here: https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showpost.php?p=4880202&postcount=2818

Regarding Islamic migration, I would think that Egypt and Iraq are the most likely recipients, and Azerbaijan/Bakupicking up some.

I don't think French policy in Anatolia itself would be so much towards dispossession of the Muslim landowners as it was in Salonika - in Salonika it would have been necessary to have created a viable crown estate for the independent ruler, and his treasury. In Anatolia, there would be nobles of the Empire who would probably buy out a lot of the lands, but not forcibly.

Also with the Barbary states remaining independent, I would imagine they would begin to industrialise by 1875, and that could be a draw for some.

Egypt though is the main centre of Islamic learning (Baghdad is under the Mamelukes). That would be where people especially from Thrace and Constantinople itself would have fled

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
There would need to be Westphalia included in this, and maybe Poland's Western borders aren't right.

Indeed. Posen belongs to France's ally Poland, not to the defeated Prussians.

I would imagine Austria would end up as a kingdom, simply due to its size and the fact that its neighbours in Bavaria, Wurttemburg etc are.

There is no need for an Austrian kingdom.
The Austrian Habsburgs are already recognized kings, kings of Bohemia, the center of their dominion (one of main consequences of the loss of Hungary and the re-acquisition of Silesia).
 

Grey Wolf

Donor
Indeed. Posen belongs to France's ally Poland, not to the defeated Prussians.

Thank you - I wanted to do that, but hadn't looked at a map to see if it was so at the time.

Grand Prince Paul II said:
There is no need for an Austrian kingdom.
The Austrian Habsburgs are already recognized kings, kings of Bohemia, the center of their dominion (one of main consequences of the loss of Hungary and the re-acquisition of Silesia).

Definitely a good point, but would Francis have accepted that, or would he have pressed for a crown of Austria as well? I could see it being a part of the final treaty that sorted things out

Similarly I was thinking Austria (sic) could get Trieste back that way. France doesn't NEED the entire Adriatic coast. I'm going to do some reading up on the Illyrian province anyway, to see what exactly it did consist of, and if it was all equal

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Top