WI : Doctor Who 1996 movie suceeded to relaunch the series?

LSCatilina · Aug 7, 2011

In 1996, a Doctor Who movie was released, in british-american collaboration, in order to ressurect the series stopped some times before.

Unfortunatly, the american audiance didn't reacted positivly enough to make the american investors interested to fund a revival.

But let's admit that or tha audiance or the investors change their minds and that Doctor Who is back on little screen around 1997-1998.

What would be the quality, the subjects used in this? Which characters and actors? (Don't forget that it would have een likely a british-american investissment).

theReturner · Aug 7, 2011

Given the popularity of the X-Files at the time, I suspect a re-launched Doctor Who in the 90's would look something like that, even more so if it was aimed more on an American audiance than a British one. Presumably, PM would still play the role of the Doctor.

Thande · Aug 7, 2011

The popularity of the new series in the US shows that the mistake was to assume that things must be awkwardly wedged into an American setting in order to appeal to American viewers, whereas in reality the kind of American viewers who like Doctor Who tend to be xenophiles who also enjoy just seeing the British setting.

Unfortunately this is very hard to avoid so long as the BBC was partnering with an American producer (Fox in this case) because all American producers are sadly convinced that all American viewers are dribbling morons with the mentality of goldfish.

Baron Bizarre · Aug 7, 2011

Thande said:
all American producers are sadly convinced that all American viewers are dribbling morons with the mentality of goldfish.

To be fair, many of us are.

Finn · Aug 7, 2011

Thande said:
The popularity of the new series in the US shows that the mistake was to assume that things must be awkwardly wedged into an American setting in order to appeal to American viewers, whereas in reality the kind of American viewers who like Doctor Who tend to be xenophiles who also enjoy just seeing the British setting.

Unfortunately this is very hard to avoid so long as the BBC was partnering with an American producer (Fox in this case) because all American producers are sadly convinced that all American viewers are dribbling morons with the mentality of goldfish.

Now, I'm not totally against American remakes (The Office largely improved upon the original) but the idea of an American Doctor Who sounds like blasphemy. And for once I think almost everyone would agree with me. No one would want to watch it, no one would want to be in it, etc.

Thande · Aug 7, 2011

Finn said:
Now, I'm not totally against American remakes (The Office largely improved upon the original) but the idea of an American Doctor Who sounds like blasphemy. And for once I think almost everyone would agree with me. No one would want to watch it, no one would want to be in it, etc.

Well, the 1996 film was about halfway there. It was the same Doctor and so on, but the episode was set in America, the Master was played by an American (due to possessing one, it's complicated) and Sylvester McCoy was randomly killed at the start by LA gangs with guns, which is about as far from Doctor Who as you can get without actually being The Tomorrow People.

Also not to deviate from the subject, but the American Office was indeed superior to the British original, but that's not saying much as there are hospital waste bins full of things that are superior to the British original.

Finn · Aug 7, 2011

Thande said:
Also not to deviate from the subject, but the American Office was indeed superior to the British original, but that's not saying much as there are hospital waste bins full of things that are superior to the British original.

I think when it comes to the Office, was really is the key word. It's gone quite downhill.

But anyway, science fiction in the 90s was, I think, a bit better at people accepting advanced technology when they see it. It's hard to explain, and it's possible I'm grasping at straws, but it seemed to be more of an era for experts. An era of protagonists who understood the technology rather than being wowed by it.

I always thought Rory's reaction to the TARDIS was interesting. He had two years to come to terms with the fact that the universe was much more complicated than he thought, and was not surprised to see that it was bigger on the inside, like he was expecting it. Companions in a series launched in the '90s would probably more commonly have that attitude. I mean really, once you accept that this man has a teleporting, time-traveling box, is it really that huge of a deal that there is room inside?

LSCatilina · Aug 7, 2011

Finn said:
Companions in a series launched in the '90s would probably more commonly have that attitude. I mean really, once you accept that this man has a teleporting, time-traveling box, is it really that huge of a deal that there is room inside?

Technically, the first "it's bigger on the inside" was a character of 1996 movie.

Thande · Aug 7, 2011

Finn said:
I think when it comes to the Office, was really is the key word. It's gone quite downhill.

But anyway, science fiction in the 90s was, I think, a bit better at people accepting advanced technology when they see it. It's hard to explain, and it's possible I'm grasping at straws, but it seemed to be more of an era for experts. An era of protagonists who understood the technology rather than being wowed by it.

I always thought Rory's reaction to the TARDIS was interesting. He had two years to come to terms with the fact that the universe was much more complicated than he thought, and was not surprised to see that it was bigger on the inside, like he was expecting it. Companions in a series launched in the '90s would probably more commonly have that attitude. I mean really, once you accept that this man has a teleporting, time-traveling box, is it really that huge of a deal that there is room inside?

It's interesting you point that out, and now I think about it, I think you're right. Back in the nineties there was more of a jaded, seen-it-all air, almost as though the whole post-communism and pre-9/11 "end of history" attitude defined other things as well. Or perhaps it's because the noughties and teens are more full of A) new gadgets and B) adverts with people absurdly overreacting to those gadgets (I'm looking at you, Apple) so now people are expected to be more wowed by such things.

Helios Ra · Aug 7, 2011

Finn said:
I think when it comes to the Office, was really is the key word. It's gone quite downhill.

But anyway, science fiction in the 90s was, I think, a bit better at people accepting advanced technology when they see it. It's hard to explain, and it's possible I'm grasping at straws, but it seemed to be more of an era for experts. An era of protagonists who understood the technology rather than being wowed by it.

I always thought Rory's reaction to the TARDIS was interesting. He had two years to come to terms with the fact that the universe was much more complicated than he thought, and was not surprised to see that it was bigger on the inside, like he was expecting it. Companions in a series launched in the '90s would probably more commonly have that attitude. I mean really, once you accept that this man has a teleporting, time-traveling box, is it really that huge of a deal that there is room inside?

I disagree, Season 7 was a major improvement from the last several, with the exception of the cameo-ridden finale.

I think one issue that would have to be worked out in a relaunch is the "half-human" thing, which I never quite understood. It was fairly throwaway as I recall though, so it could probably be ignored completely during a relaunched series and just be an awkward out-of-canon thing like the movie in the Sixties.

Finn · Aug 7, 2011

Thande said:
It's interesting you point that out, and now I think about it, I think you're right. Back in the nineties there was more of a jaded, seen-it-all air, almost as though the whole post-communism and pre-9/11 "end of history" attitude defined other things as well. Or perhaps it's because the noughties and teens are more full of A) new gadgets and B) adverts with people absurdly overreacting to those gadgets (I'm looking at you, Apple) so now people are expected to be more wowed by such things.

Yes. As for the modern day... It's more difficult to tell what kind of mode the latest science fiction is stuck in, given the lack of retrospect, but I think it's more of a "future stuff is so cool, let's only advance the electronics, also we're all going to die."

BlackWave · Aug 7, 2011

I think it may have reflected the EU novels that were being published in the late nineties--some of which weren't half bad, some of which were drugged up as hell, and some of which were just plain groanworthy (like that one about all the events after Genesis of the Daleks being some elaborate hoax to fool Davros).

Thande · Aug 7, 2011

BlackWave said:
I think it may have reflected the EU novels that were being published in the late nineties--some of which weren't half bad, some of which were drugged up as hell, and some of which were just plain groanworthy (like that one about all the events after Genesis of the Daleks being some elaborate hoax to fool Davros).

I'm not too familiar with the EU novels but I am aware that, as you say, they went to some really weird places.

BlackWave · Aug 7, 2011

Indeed. There was also this strange effort by some authors to tie it all into Lovecraft, such as by making the Nestene Consciousness a relative of Nyarlathotep, or something.

On the other hand, if the idea of a crossover with Star Trek would arise here as it did with RTD, it would be for a decent series, DS9. Quite a cool thought, actually.

LSCatilina · Aug 7, 2011

What i'm wondering is, beyond technology, what would be the "adventures" of this series?

Probably not all this homosexuality with Harkness (not in MY Fox), not this brillant episode on death penalty, etc.
But which subjets would replace them?

Thande · Aug 7, 2011

BlackWave said:
On the other hand, if the idea of a crossover with Star Trek would arise here as it did with RTD, it would be for a decent series, DS9. Quite a cool thought, actually.

That would be really odd, though, because the whole point of DS9 was that it was more gritty and less idealistic than preceding Star Trek series...it would certainly be more of a contrast with Doctor Who, but would feel like a less genuine crossover to my mind. Could still be fun, though.

Thinking about this realistically, I tend to think Kirk or Picard would view the Doctor as one of those really powerful aliens (Q, Organians etc) who they have to lecture to death about humanity.

Thande · Aug 7, 2011

LSCatilina said:
What i'm wondering is, beyond technology, what would be the "adventures" of this series?

Probably not all this homosexuality with Harkness (not in MY Fox), not this brillant episode on death penalty, etc.
But which subjets would replace them?

What you say is correct. What would replace them? What are the dominating issues of the late 1990s...lots of alien stand-ins for Renegade Russian Communists, Poorly Defined International Terrorists, and that kind of thing, I suppose.

BlackWave · Aug 7, 2011

Alien Saddam Hussein?

I don't know, DW never struck me as really commenting on current events. I doubt they'd do the whole Time War thing though, with the old series not having been that long ago.

Thande · Aug 7, 2011

BlackWave said:
I don't know, DW never struck me as really commenting on current events

They did to some extent, but not as much as the current series.

I doubt they'd do the whole Time War thing though, with the old series not having been that long ago.

Probably not in that "time slip gap" sense, no, but I suspect they would have something playing a similar narrative role, because there was a general consensus that the show had got too bogged down in Gallifrey and lost some of its mystery. However, on the other hand, there would be less of a feeling that they needed to reintroduce the setting to a generation of new viewers, which was also a reason for the Time War and the Doctor being the Last of the Time Lords.

Alex Richards · Aug 7, 2011

Thande said:
I'm not too familiar with the EU novels but I am aware that, as you say, they went to some really weird places.

I'm only familiar with 6, all based on being 'unseen episodes' of adventures set during the reboot. They're pretty decent, so this must be somewhat in the past.

With regards to the setting, we could see a time war take place which does see the destruction of Skaro and Gallifrey, but where instead of the doctor being the only survivor, there are several spread out who he keeps bumping into, some explicit characters (such as Romana, the Master or the Rani), while it's simply implied that there's a couple of hundred others who we don't see but who could turn up (the Meddling Monk, the Celestial Toymaker, the White and Black Guardians come to mind.) It'd be ambiguous about specific characters until they actually appeared, but that would be the general feel.