WI Malta class aircraft carrier

[Some Bloke]

I think we're getting off track here, we've already had one kicking and a banning as a result.

The Malta class wasn't ordered until 1943 and the design was only just finalised when the orders were cancelled in 1945.

The Maltas only will sail is if the design is finalised quicker (very tight for time) or the class is ordered earlier.

Looking at the timeline for orders etc.
HMS Ark Royal Ordered 1934, Laid down 1935, Launched 1937, Commissioned 1938
Illustrious Class Ordered 1936, Laid down 1937, First Launched 1939 First commissioned 1940
Implacable Class Ordered 1938, Laid down 1939, First Launched 1943 First commissioned 1944
Audacious Class Ordered and Laid down 1942, First Launched 1946 First commissioned 1951

What's needed is a PoD that prevents or mitigate the loss of momentum in orders and builds,
Specifically closing or narrowing the gap between the Implacable and Audacious orders and ideally
preventing or shortening the delay on the Implacables. If this happens then the Malta gets order and laid down earlier.

 

[shandoah]

Malta Class Carriers

Besides, it was Thomas Jefferson who talked about the United States being an empire--but an Empire of Libety. Jefferson was using the contrast between the terms of empire and liberty to stress how different the goals that the US aspired to were from those of empires such as the British Empire or the Spanish Empire, for example. Jefferson's phrase an example of a rhetorical device known as an oxymoron.

I am impressed with johnalbion's misquote both mis-attributing the source and taking the quote it out context to create an opposite and false meaning.
__________________


Hi I am new to the forum even though I do not know much about the ships I have always been interested in them. I took note of your response to Mr.Albions post and here is something I think I can make a small contribution to. I am an American and European history professor and I would like to tell you that you are correct that Jefferson did make the quote you referred to. However, Mr. Albion is also correct. Madison also made the quote “We have laid the foundations for a great Empire" near the end of the constitutional conferences. Both of these men were empire men with Madison being a little more vocal about it. Both had a desire to take Canada for the USA and that was the reason Madison started the war of 1812. His thinking being that Napoleon would defeat Britain and Canada would be an easy conquest. None of the popular stated reasons for the war are true. Yes those things happened but they were not the reason for starting a war with one of the world greatest military powers at the time. I hope this was of some use to you and the discussion

 

[Gunnarnz]

Hi I am new to the forum even though I do not know much about the ships I have always been interested in them. I took note of your response to Mr.Albions post and here is something I think I can make a small contribution to. I am an American and European history professor and I would like to tell you that you are correct that Jefferson did make the quote you referred to. However, Mr. Albion is also correct. Madison also made the quote “We have laid the foundations for a great Empire" near the end of the constitutional conferences. Both of these men were empire men with Madison being a little more vocal about it. Both had a desire to take Canada for the USA and that was the reason Madison started the war of 1812. His thinking being that Napoleon would defeat Britain and Canada would be an easy conquest. None of the popular stated reasons for the war are true. Yes those things happened but they were not the reason for starting a war with one of the world greatest military powers at the time. I hope this was of some use to you and the discussion

Hello, and welcome to the board! Unfortunately, you've unknowingly made a couple of mistakes in your first post here. It's usually considered bad form to revive a thread that has been dead for over a year, and doing so in order to say something unrelated to the original topic of the thread (and that got a couple of people kicked or banned) is also probably frowned upon.
I'm sorry to have to say something like this as a response to your first post, and I hope it won't prevent you from taking part in some of the other discussions that we have around here. I look forward to seeing you around in the future

 

[Archibald]

I think it would be a toss up between the Audacious and the Malta. The UK simply did not have the money or the industrial capacity to build both classes. France Fights on makes this very clear even though in that timeline Britain is much better off financially and economically, in that timeline 2 Maltas (renamed the Singapore class for alternate historical reasons) commission during the war (Singapore and Malta) and 2 are built post war (in the notes their construction was deliberately slowed to incorporate war time lessons an they complete in 1947 as Ark Royal and Gibraltar).

There is also a reference to the Naval losses during the evacuation of Crete seriously affecting the British warship design and building program.
If we eliminate this second, later planning and strategy panic, this may do the trick. This may also affect other programmes as well, such as cancellation of the Vanguard and resuming of work on the Lion class
(I doubt the latter will be completed before the wars end but ...).

With this POD I think its safe to say that only 2 Maltas are built (HMS Malta and HMS Crete perhaps). I personally think the savings in time created by not having to fart about with an armoured flight deck would be off set by the larger design, so I think it's unlikely that these will see action during the war. However, with less strain on resources and planning the Implacable class might commision earlier, perhaps leading to an ealier sinking of the Tirpitz and return to the far east leading to a retaking of Singapore.

More information here
http://www.1940lafrancecontinue.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=301&highlight=malta
(note: even for those who don't speak french, you're still welcome. We have translators !)

 

[KillerT]

Never seen this one before so unlike a previous poster I'll say thanks for reopening this discussion. Personally a postwar RN with at its core 4 Malta's with one inevitably having the name Ark Royal, plus 4 Centaur class would have been spot on. The 4 Centaurs would be eventually converted, with 3 becoming commando carriers and the other either gutted to act as a simplified training deck OR into a command/EW ship-as was actually envisaged! Finally I would also keep on a half dozen Collusus or similar class, of these majority converted to missile ships, one converted to the alternative role for the 4th Centaur ship and the other being Triumph which happened to be the main repair ship, except in this case I would keep her in better shape than she had been.

Everything else open sale season folks, come on down!

 

[Riain]

Only 3 Maltas were ordered and only the starting materials for one were gathered in the general vicinity of the dockyard. Wishing for 4 is pushing the bounds of reality a bit, not to mention that the almost insoluble problems Britain encountered with carriers didn't arise until the late 50s at the earliest means that Maltas in the 40s is a serious waste of British shipbuilding talent. Better to have CVA 01 and 02 get built instead.

 

[kaymay]

A shame

It's a crying shame that we did not at least try to build these carriers I think if we had that their replacements would have cats and traps.

 

[CalBear]

Zombie on a raft sighted. Alpha strike inbound.

Zombie negated.