WI Malta class aircraft carrier

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The one downside to the Malta class was ironically the American style open hangar design. It would have been harder to protect the interior of the carrier against fall-out and chemical weapons.
DK Brown mentions this downside in Rebuilding the Royal Navy.
 

Riain

Banned
I'm curious as to why it is thought that the 47,000 ton Malta class would have such a tiny hangar when the whole point of the design was to maximise aircraft numbers and the ability to pulse launch 80% of them in a single strike. Who is Brown, who said that the Malta's hangar would be smaller than CVA01s 4800m2? Is that John Brown the builder?
 
I'm curious as to why it is thought that the 47,000 ton Malta class would have such a tiny hangar when the whole point of the design was to maximise aircraft numbers and the ability to pulse launch 80% of them in a single strike. Who is Brown, who said that the Malta's hangar would be smaller than CVA01s 4800m2? Is that John Brown the builder?

I think a lot of it has to do with typical British carrier design, which tends to be lacking.

CVA-01 - 63,000 tons (4800m2) and roughly 50 aircraft.

CVF - 65,000 tons (NOTE: may be upto 75,000 tons now with redesign for CTOL operations), (4700m2), 50 aircraft at full load.

Brown is D. K. Brown in his "Rebuilding the Royal Navy". That said, John Brown would have a record of the designs - I think they're stored with the Transport Museum here in Glasgow, I might pay them a little visit to get a better look.

Russell
 
I think it would be a toss up between the Audacious and the Malta. The UK simply did not have the money or the industrial capacity to build both classes. France Fights on makes this very clear even though in that timeline Britain is much better off financially and economically, in that timeline 2 Maltas (renamed the Singapore class for alternate historical reasons) commission during the war (Singapore and Malta) and 2 are built post war (in the notes their construction was deliberately slowed to incorporate war time lessons an they complete in 1947 as Ark Royal and Gibraltar).

There is also a reference to the Naval losses during the evacuation of Crete seriously affecting the British warship design and building program.
If we eliminate this second, later planning and strategy panic, this may do the trick. This may also affect other programmes as well, such as cancellation of the Vanguard and resuming of work on the Lion class
(I doubt the latter will be completed before the wars end but ...).

With this POD I think its safe to say that only 2 Maltas are built (HMS Malta and HMS Crete perhaps). I personally think the savings in time created by not having to fart about with an armoured flight deck would be off set by the larger design, so I think it's unlikely that these will see action during the war. However, with less strain on resources and planning the Implacable class might commision earlier, perhaps leading to an ealier sinking of the Tirpitz and return to the far east leading to a retaking of Singapore.
 
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Riain

Banned
I'd be cautious about quoting hangar space for ships which were not built, comparing this to ships that were built, and hanging a strong argument off that. For example an Essex in WW2 was supposed to carry about 80 planes but regularly operated 100. Midway was supposed to operate 137 planes but was found in practice not to be able to handle its aircraft any faster than an Essex, so it underutilised its larger airwing. Basically X hangar space doesn't equal Y airwing size which doesn't equal Z capability.

Again I'd also like to point out how US national practice, especially in later years when the British avaition industry was destroyed, allows them to flog their ships and planes harder than the British, the British can't afford to have carriers loaded up with the war compliment in peacetime, it's expenive in itself and wears out ships and planes that much faster and their replacements are hard to come by.
 
During WWII, it took considerable effort by Admiral Sir Denis W. Boyd, to have the FAA receive any priorities regarding equipment. With the end of the war, his job was done. The Boyd Trophy, a silver Swordfish aircraft, was awarded annually for oustanding service. It was last awarded in 1983. "Rule Brittannia" is now only sung with nostalgia.
 
Great contributions guys! :)

There's no doubt that having 2 Maltas in service post war would have made a massive difference to Britain's strategic capabilities. The RN was hampered by the small size of carriers such as Hermes and Victorious that imposed a significant handicap on operations. In particular I'm thinking of the Supermarine Scimitar which suffered an appalling service accident rate with something like 76 out of the 150 aircraft built being lost in accidents. The Scimitar was potentially a very capable strike aircraft but it was difficult to fly and coupled with the small size of British carriers meant it was phased out of service in favour of the more docile Buccaneer when it still had plenty of potential left. Operating from a Malta then perhaps the Scimitar wouldn't have developed such a bad reputation and could have served alongside the Buccaneer instead of being replaced by it.

However this is all academic unless you put this in an AH in which Britain's post war economic performance is more like Germany's. It wasn't the lack of a supercarrier that led to the RN's contraction, it was Britain's poor economic performance. Unless just about every major economic decision from 1945 was taken differently then it's still all going to end in tears.
 
The effect on the RN would probably not have been all that great and given the state of the post war economy the expendtiure would have had to come off smnothing else. As they would have required a large crew they may have spent a lot of their life mothballed. Possibly the battleships would have been scrapped earlier. The effect on the aircraft industry would have been morwe aircraft or maybe the expenditure would be taken from the RAF.

As regards the Suez crisis it would have made little difference as militarily Britain and France had won but political and economic factors necessitated a ceasefire. The only possible major effect it could have had would be if the ships lasted longer than the Ark Royal and had been in commission or able to be put into commission quickly in 1982. Galtieri wouldn't have tired his luck
 
I'd be cautious about quoting hangar space for ships which were not built, comparing this to ships that were built, and hanging a strong argument off that. For example an Essex in WW2 was supposed to carry about 80 planes but regularly operated 100. Midway was supposed to operate 137 planes but was found in practice not to be able to handle its aircraft any faster than an Essex, so it underutilised its larger airwing. Basically X hangar space doesn't equal Y airwing size which doesn't equal Z capability.

Again I'd also like to point out how US national practice, especially in later years when the British avaition industry was destroyed, allows them to flog their ships and planes harder than the British, the British can't afford to have carriers loaded up with the war compliment in peacetime, it's expenive in itself and wears out ships and planes that much faster and their replacements are hard to come by.

The hanagar Space for CVA-01 and the CVF are known, and were finalised.

The Essex, as far as I am aware was always designed to carry a complement of 100 aircraft, not 80. I believe, was it Lexington that once managed 110 at overload?

Basically X hangar space doesn't equal Y airwing size which doesn't equal Z capability.

No, pysical size, i.e deck space and so on, design layout, number of catapults and so on, as well as training all play their part. With the exception of the training, all other aspects are considerably smaller than that of a Midway skimmer. But by your argument, British and American carrier op's are so different that the vessels themselves in each nations respective service cannot be compared?

I have long been aware of the differences of British and American carrier op's, this doesn't change the fact that the carrier was in almost every respect excluding tonnage little more than an Essex class, granted with a slightly larger hanagar and better armour (as was a feature of British carriers).

the British can't afford to have carriers loaded up with the war compliment in peacetime,

Malta was rated to carry 80 aircraft during WW2, BEFORE the post war economics had set in. Still leaves little room for expansion given a continuation of RN carrier pratice.

In particular I'm thinking of the Supermarine Scimitar which suffered an appalling service accident rate with something like 76 out of the 150 aircraft built being lost in accidents.

Only 76 Scimitars were ever built (excluding protoypes), not 150. But yes, over half (39) were lost during it's service. However, it was not just due to the small carriers that caused the accidents - the aircraft was notoriously maitainence high (almost 1000 hours per flying hour). It's hydraulic and fuel lines leaked like sieve, so much so that when the aircrafts lower cowlings were removed for maintaience, the maintainence guys were often greated by as much as four inches of fluid loshing around in the machine spaces.

The Scimitar was potentially a very capable strike aircraft

It was in reality a very crap strike aircraft. It had been designed as a high powered fleet interceptor and was on the verge of being cancelled when they navy announced that it needed an interim attack aircraft until the purpose built (and anything but doscile) Buccaneer came into service in the 60's. The Scimitar was hatily re-roled for this purpose but lacked the range and payload to be compared with the Buccaneer.

However, where it may have shined was in it's later developments, in particular the Type 756 - a two seat supersonic fighter bomber in the same league as the F-4 Phatmom. It would have given the RN a a strong and flexible fighter for the 60's and 70's, presuming all of the Sciimitars kinks had been sorted out.

Russell
 
having Malta's in service would also have an impact on the RN operations during the Korean war, which war for some strange reason seems to get forgotten about a lot :/
 
The first carrier aircraft on site off Korea were the old WWII Fairey Fireflies and the last and best of the barely adequate Seafire 47's. Newer Fireflies showed up with a later ship, along with Hawker Sea Furies. Although a bigger deck is always nice, the use of such old iron on a modern carrier does seem such a waste. It would seem to be a replay of much of WWII when the RN had the decks but no aircraft to fill them.
 
According to The History of Aircraft Carriers by Robert Ireland, the UK could only sustain 1 light carrier round the clock off Korea, as opposed to the US's 3/4 CVs plus light carriers when available. The UK would be able to strike a wider range of targets if it could operate different kinds of planes, so UK experience in Korea would be greater. The Maltas would likely need replacing by the late 70s, so they're probably only going to be replaced by two ships at the best, assuming butterflies dont give Britain the will and ability to spend more on defence. If the defence budget remains the same, either the RN will recieve a greater share to pay for the Maltas, leading to losses elsewhere, or the RN will get the same amount but be even more stretched. If the Maltas are built, its likely older carriers are scrapped/sold earlier to pay for them, which may encourage more old, worn out wartime ships to be scrapped or sold, which IMHO is a good thing, it brings in money and eases manpower and funding issues for the rest of the fleet
 

Riain

Banned
The hangar size of CVA01 is known, but the Malta is not, we only have the word of Brown who says that it was smaller than CVA01. But the Malta was designed with war experience specifically to increase airwing size and the speed at which it could be launched, so I struggle to think it would be quite so deficient as to only rival an Essex.
 
I wonder what the Malta-class would have looked like after being refitted with angled flight decks and 'hurricane' bows, similar to the treatment lavished upon the trio of Midway-class carriers?
 
The only design schematic I know of:

MALTACV.JPG
 
Here's a CAD rendering of what the Malta would likely have looked like, which, IIRC, was done by someone on Warship Projects a few years ago, cut down to size; a full-size version of the rendering (6000 x 2849, 1.28 MB) can be downloaded from here.

malta_1_1.jpg
 
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