That's why I said they'd be able to adapt. From time to time, Vince McMahon's orders when it came to the moves the WWF's wrestlers could employ made sense - a dropkick by Andre the Giant is not something most people would ever want to be on the receiving end of - but most of the time they were just a burden that kept many from reaching their full potential.
The Rise of the Dragon: An Altered History of the World Wrestling Federation
- Thread starter The Walkman
- Start date
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That's why I said they'd be able to adapt. From time to time, Vince McMahon's orders when it came to the moves the WWF's wrestlers could employ made sense - a dropkick by Andre the Giant is not something most people would ever want to be on the receiving end of - but most of the time they were just a burden that kept many from reaching their full potential.
On the topic of Japan, we have been overlooking something - wrestling in Japan is not like it is in the Western world. Japanese wrestling, known as puroresu in Japanese, is descended from what we know as pro wrestling. However, us Westerners associate wrestling with gimmicks, angles and theatrics. In Japan, wrestling is more about spirit and perseverance. Plus, Japanese wrestlers are known for using full-contact strikes and having backgrounds in martial arts; it's more of a combat sport in Japan as opposed to sports entertainment here in the USA.
I wonder how all this would factor in with the Dragon and a possible "cultural exchange" between the two wrestling formats.
Either this or the E is going to bring someone in who's gonna call steamboat out for cultural appropriation.
Considering how Steamboat is Japanese-American, and how full Japanese usually approach such issues - they're either indifferent or take pride in people from overseas being interested in their culture, as long as they aren't racist about it: the whole Ghost in the Shell debacle, for example, was met with a shrug by Japan, and when some American activists got offended by white people wearing kimonos, Japanese internet users just thought it was good publicity for the country's culture - I doubt this will happen.
One other thing about the America/Japan exchange... in Japanese puroresu, was kayfabe - as in, not revealing the fact that the whole thing was "fake" - ever a thing, or did people know what they were looking at (Strong Style, etc.) was choreographed fighting with real strikes? Because if they did, kayfabe might fall even sooner in the US than it did in OTL.
strong style and WWE schedule would not mix at all- too many injuries due to not enough rest.
Kayfabe was stronger in New Japan at least.
Evolving that way by winning the Monday Night Wars early and expanding the stable would be pretty badass, though.
Nope.
ECW and WCW going under only made Vince McMahon complacent, at least during the Monday Night Wars he had to take risks to keep ratings high - if those companies hadn't gone under, I doubt he would've disregarded the fans as much as he's done in OTL - but now the WWE is so big that it would take much more than bad booking and falling ratings to make Vince and Stephanie (Triple H, despite having an ego the size of a planet, is far more competent) wake up. The WWF skyrocketing ahead of the competition far earlier means that the early 1990s slump could last a full decade, or more.
I have to agree with that competition tends to bring out the best in the WWE/WWF. Whether it's genuine competition or potential competition.
The OTL steroid scandal could be even more damaging to Vince McMahon in this ATL, with Ricky Steamboat as the WWF's leading representative: Steamboat is not as mercenary as Hogan, and he doesn't seem like the kind of person who took drugs while at his peak, so he could very well turn on McMahon in order to protect his image and reputation, and he'd have many allies, Bruno Sammartino for example.
Would the steroid trial/would Vince have even done it in this timeline? He would have less need due to fewer roid monsters in the WWF.
Also, where would the roiders go- I could see Verne taking a bunch of them- Roid monsters traditionally didn't do as well in territorial wrestling.
Verne Gagne? I don't think so, as far as I know he was a staunch defender of the old order - that's what doomed the AWA in the end - so if he didn't bet on Hogan in OTL I doubt he'd bet on even less charismatic and talented (Hogan at least had the basics down and could step up his game when needed) people in this ATL. For the Ultimate Warrior and people like him, this universe won't be a kind one - people like John Cena however, that began their career as bodybuilders but eventually showed some actual talent (Cena spent a decade as a face, and that's what doomed him; as a heel, he would've been far less formulaic and predictable) won't fare as badly.
Cena is every bit as good a wrestler as Sting, bodybuilders who are willing to go will be money. Bill Watts is going to love beating wrestling into Sting if he ends up there.
Many of the top name big men like Studd/Bundy/One Man Gang/Blackwell weren't just tubs of lard. They needed some wrestling ability to get into the main event spot.
I wonder if black big men would benefit such as Bad News Allen/Brown, Ernie Ladd, and eventually Ron Simmons- all of which had ability and zie, though age is an issue with the first two. Junkyard Dog wouldn't fare so well, but could sell tickets in territories.
Many of the top name big men like Studd/Bundy/One Man Gang/Blackwell weren't just tubs of lard. They needed some wrestling ability to get into the main event spot.
I wonder if black big men would benefit such as Bad News Allen/Brown, Ernie Ladd, and eventually Ron Simmons- all of which had ability and zie, though age is an issue with the first two. Junkyard Dog wouldn't fare so well, but could sell tickets in territories.
What I want to know is: will Genichiro Tenryu still leave AJPW, found Super World of Sports and form a working relationship with the WWF as IOTL? If so, it might not be that implausable that we’d have Tenryu as WWF Champion at some point. If he doesn’t become the champ, I still wouldn’t be surprised if we had Tenryu/Michaels or Tenryu/Bret or even Tenryu/Steamboat at some point ITTL.
Anyway, Tenryu fuckin rules.
Anyway, Tenryu fuckin rules.
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Satoru Sayama (Tiger Mask 1) literally wrote a book called "Kayfabe" in Japan in the 80s exposing the business after he fell out with New Japan.
Japanese wrestling has some pretty interesting subsets. Sayama retired from the biggest Japanese wrestling company as one of their biggest stars at 25, at least partly because he was allegedly bothered by the "fake" nature of the business. He went on to help define a popular mix between MMA and pro-wrestling style in the UWF and then formed a full MMA company after that. (Although he also kept performing as a wrestler as well.)
I think in general there's fluidity in what is considered real there. In the mid 80s, when the WWF was working as a cartoon, the UWF was heavily incorporating MMA style and openly accusing New Japan of being fake, with one of their top two stars having famously exposed the business.
I think you could probably make the argument that "Kayfabe" was both exposed much earlier in Japan and also stuck around longer, due to the heavy influence of MMA into the 2000s.
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From what I've heard of puroresu though, it seems to be far more well received in Japan than professional wrestling is in the US; did the MMA influence help in this regard, or is it because of something else?
Might be based both in culture and kabuki influences, rather fake is destined/predeterminated So the physical show matter more like a ópera plus a bigger sumo and other martial arts tradition make the blow different
April 1988: Cool Treats and Cold Hard Cash
April 18, 1988
1988 Kids’ Choice Awards
from *Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
On April 18, 1988, Nickelodeon held the first official Kids’ Choice Awards event. Technically, the first ever Kids’ Choice Awards event occurred in 1987 as The Big Ballot. [1]
Contents
1. Presenters, performers and stunts
- Hosts
- Musical Performances
2. Winners and nominees
- Movies
- Television
- Music
- Sports
3. Events within the show
- Stunts, Events
- Slimed Celebrities
Presenters, performers and stunts
Hosts
Tony Danza
Debbie Gibson
Brian Robbins
Dan Schneider
Musical performances
The Fat Boys – “Wipe Out”
Debbie Gibson – “Shake Your Love” & “Out of the Blue”
Winners and nominees
Winners are listed first, in bold. Other nominees are in alphabetical order. [2]
Movies
Favorite Movie
- Beverly Hills Cop II
- Adventures in Babysitting
- La Bamba
- Eddie Murphy – Beverly Hills Cop II as Detective Axel Foley
- Arnold Schwarzenegger – The Running Man as Ben Richards
- Patrick Swayze – Dirty Dancing as Johnny Castle
- Whoopi Goldberg – Fatal Beauty as Detective Rita Rizzoli
- Elisabeth Shue – Adventures in Babysitting as Chris Parker
- Robin Wright-Penn – The Princess Bride as Princess Buttercup [3]
Favorite TV Show
- ALF
- The Cosby Show
- Growing Pains
- Michael J. Fox – Family Ties as Alex P. Keaton
- Kirk Cameron – Growing Pains as Mike Seaver
- Bill Cosby – The Cosby Show as Dr. Heathcliff “Cliff” Huxtable
- Alyssa Milano – Who’s the Boss? as Samantha Micelli
- Tempestt Bledsoe – The Cosby Show as Vanessa Huxtable
- Anne Schedeen – ALF as Kate Tanner
- Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
- Ducktales
- The X-Men [4]
Favorite Male Singer/Band
- Bon Jovi
- The Fat Boys
- The Monkees
- Madonna
- The Bangles
- Janet Jackson
- “La Bamba” – Los Lobos
- “Control” – Janet Jackson
- “I Wanna Dance with Somebody (Who Loves Me)” – Whitney Houston
Favorite Male Athlete
- Ricky “the Dragon” Steamboat [5]
- Michael Jordan
- Walter Payton
- Debi Thomas
- Chris Evert
- Kristie Phillips
- Chicago Bears
- Detroit Pistons
- San Francisco Giants
Stunts and Events
- Mackenzie Astin taking the Blindfold Ice Cream Challenge…on his face
- Wil Wheaton taking the Head-to-Head Giant Beach Ball Challenge
- Les Lye – Slimed in the initial 90 seconds of the show. Lye was the only celebrity to be slimed during the show.
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WRESTLING OBSERVER NEWSLETTER – 4/18/88
“SUPER SUNDAY”
In this writer’s opinion, March 27th, 1988 will go down as the biggest head-to-head competition between two wrestling promotions in history. The WWF and the NWA both presented big shows with tons of hype, intrigue, sabotage, media coverage, and careful planning, and both shows paid off for both companies in very big ways.
In the largest response the Newsletter has ever gotten for a poll, a narrow majority of 35.7% (191 readers) preferred Wrestlemania to Clash of the Champions. 34.6% (185 readers) thought both shows were about the same, and 29.7% (159 readers) preferred the Clash. [6]
Savage vs. Hart barely edged out Steamboat vs. Hogan and Magnum vs. Flair for the best match of the night. Of the 535 responses, only 40 didn’t vote for one of these three matches.
WWF
Not much is going on right now since they’re not running shows.
According to reports, Wrestlemania 4 got about a 9% buyrate, which sounds amazing on paper … The real success or failure of a major show of this type is not whether it makes money on the night. For the weeks after the last three Wrestlemanias, Titan has taken a couple of weeks off, which they look to be doing right now. Houses were down slightly for the WWF the past six weeks, and will probably continue to slide all summer despite this strong show, leading all the way into the August PPV. For Wrestlemania 4 to be a profitable show, it must be profitable enough to offset all these other losses of income, not just make money the night of. The last three years’ shows certainly were (profitable enough), and looking at the buyrates, this year will be too. But we’ll see what happens come August.
There is word that the company is looking to do another mini-raid of talent from other promotions, but no confirmation yet on who they might be looking at bringing in.
NWA
The Clash drew a 5.3 rating and an 11.2 share, meaning the average quarter had just over 2 million viewers … The audience actually increased in every successive quarter hour, which is highly unusual, especially for a wrestling show. Flair vs. Magnum had a 6.2 rating, and the last 15 minutes had just under 3 million homes watching. This writer estimates that if you look at total viewers (not just households), the Clash was probably seen by about 5 million people. [7]
NWA Main Event debuted, and feedback has been mostly positive. The show was taped on 3/31 in Spartanburg, SC, and the crowd was very hot. Steiner vs. Luger for the TV Title was a solid match with a pretty predictable finish … A returning Dick Slater ran down and slipped Steiner a pair of brass knuckles which Steiner used on Luger to get the pin. Afterward, Slater apparently joined up with Sullivan and Steiner, with Sullivan stating the men were “his club” [8] …
Brad Armstrong is scheduled to undergo knee surgery soon.
AWA
The 4/16 show drew 1,800 fans … Adrian Adonis beat Greg Gagne to retain the AWA World Title in the main event, and the post-match beatdown saw Verne come down to stare down Adonis. Dear God, please don’t let this lead to what I think it’s leading to … Mando Guerrero had three squash matches on the TV taping, and it looks like he might be pushed hard, as his new lucha offense was said to have gotten over pretty well with the crowd. Speaking of the Guerreros: I’m told Chavo Guerrero is teaming with his younger brother Eddy (who is said to be really hot) in Mexico right now.
Verne Gagne has started airing old matches of Ricky Steamboat, Hulk Hogan, Jesse Ventura, Jim Brunzell, Tito Santana and the Midnight Rockers in an attempt to build ratings. He has given up on pushing house shows, and just wants to do small guaranteed shows in the area to keep the AWA alive so they can keep sending tapes to ESPN.
The Rock and Roll Express are heading in soon. (Robert) Gibson apparently wants a guaranteed paycheck, but (Ricky) Morton is much easier to deal with.
Curt Hennig is trying to get out of his contract. Some sources say he has received an offer to work for the WWF, but Verne desperately wants him to stay around.
WCW
The show on 4/10 drew 3,000 fans and a house of about $11,000 … 4/17 drew 3,200 and featured the beginnings of a 16-wrestler tournament to crown the first heavyweight champion in the promotion. There will be semifinal matches at a later show, which will be televised on the new WCW weekly show … Jerry Lawler beat Al Perez … Eddie Gilbert defeated Jack Victory … Kerry Von Erich beat Iceman Parsons … Manny Fernandez defeated Michael Hayes, which caused a lot of negative reaction from the crowd.
Steve Keirn is heading in soon.
STAMPEDE
3/18 in Calgary was headlined by Chris Benoit beating the Great Gama to win the Commonwealth Heavyweight Title in a ***¼ match … 3/25 in Calgary drew 1,000. The standout match was Brian Pillman vs. Rip Rogers in a **** match.
Owen Hart has received an offer from the WWF, and he may be heading there soon because they’re trying to finish up his feud with Makhan Singh. If Owen is headed in, and he ends up teaming with Bret, they could be the WWF’s hottest babyface tag team in history.
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HILLBILLY JIM: (holding a WWF ice cream bar, the Hillbilly Jim image visible on the vanilla sandwich cookie) I tell y’all what, there ain’t nothin’ like my mama’s homemade ice cream! But second place? Well, that goes to a good ol’ WWF Superstar ice cream bar! (bites into ice cream) Dang, that’s good!
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JUNKYARD DOG: In the hot weather like this—(wipes brow) whew!—what else is better than a WWF ice cream bar? (unwraps ice cream and bites into it ferociously before continuing to talk with his mouth full) Get one today, and tell 'em the Dawg sent ya'!
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KOKO B. WARE: (holding Frankie the parrot in one hand and a WWF ice cream bar in the other) Well, you know at this time of year, Jack, the WWF ice cream bars are FAAAAAAN-tastic! Ain’t that right, Frankie? (Frankie squawks as he starts to nibble on the bar) Wait, Frankie, you supposed ta’ share that with me! (Koko takes several bites) Oooh, that's good!
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(Slick, Nikolai Volkoff and Boris Zukhov are all eating WWF ice cream bars)
SLICK: Mmm-mm! Nothin’ like a deee-licious WWF Superstars ice cream bar, brothah! But I don’t know what my comrades think about it. Nikolai, Boris, whatch’u think?
BORIS ZUKHOV: Is quite good, Comrade Slick.
NIKOLAI VOLKOFF: But not as good as ice cream in Mother Russia!
BOTH: NYET!!
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GEORGE “THE ANIMAL” STEELE: (unwraps a WWF ice cream bar) G-g-g-GOOD! (takes a bite) EAT!
-various commercials for WWF ice cream bars, aired between late 1987 and early 1990 [9]
April 30, 1988
CRAIG DEGEORGE: Ladies and gentlemen, the buzz on everyone’s lips this past week or so is the shocking revelation on Saturday Night’s Main Event that the “Million Dollar Man” Ted DiBiase intends to buy the World Wrestling Federation Championship from Ricky “the Dragon” Steamboat. Now, we’re still not sure of the offer that was made, but we have been told it was at least seven figures, so this is serious money Mr. DiBiase is offering. We’ve all waited a week, and now it’s time to hear the response. Ladies and gentlemen, the World Wrestling Federation Champion, Ricky “the Dragon” Steamboat!
(Steamboat comes out, wearing the title around his waist, to thunderous cheers)
DEGEORGE: Steamboat, we’ve heard from Mr. DiBiase. Have you reached a decision regarding the Million Dollar Man’s offer for your WWF Championship?
RICKY STEAMBOAT: Craig, I’ve thought long and hard about this, I’m not gonna lie. The Million Dollar Man has made an incredibly lucrative offer to buy this championship from me—the championship that I fought and clawed for since day one of being in the World Wrestling Federation! I won’t lie, that money that Mr. DiBiase offered could do a lot of things. My family—my wife and my little baby boy—we would be financially secure for a long, long time. My son, that money could pay for his entire college education! If I accepted that offer, I could help pay for a lot of the young fans that I’ve met—the ones who are sick, or less fortunate than I am… (takes the belt off and folds it up) Make no mistake about it—the Million Dollar Man doesn’t want any part of the Dragon. I have no question in my mind that if he and I were to meet in that ring, I'd leave him looking up at the ceiling. And that's why it pains me to say this.
DEGEORGE: Dragon, what…w-what are you saying?
STEAMBOAT: On behalf of all the young Dragons out there, on behalf of my family, I’m gonna have to tell the Million Dollar Man—that he can have the WWF Championship. (a huge gasp from the audience, followed by boos and chants of “no!”) He can have the WWF Championship…OVER MY DEAD BODY!! (Steamboat holds the belt up in the air as he glares at the camera, the crowd now cheering for him) Ted DiBiase, if you want this World Wrestling Federation Championship, if you even think for a second that you're half the man that I am, come and try to take it from me!!!
-Ricky Steamboat interview from WWF Superstars of Wrestling, originally aired April 30th, 1988
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[1] As OTL, except the show airs a week earlier.
[2] The nominees and winners are all as OTL, except where noted.
[3] IOTL, Wright wasn’t on the ballot; the nod instead went to Shelley Long for her role as Lucy Chadman in the rather cringeworthy Hello Again. This film still exists ITTL, but since The Princess Bride is a much bigger deal (and popular with kids to boot), the Nickelodeon folks decide to give it the nod.
[4] The X-Men cartoon takes the place of The Smurfs, which was the third nominee IOTL.
[5] Guess who won this IOTL? I’ll give you a hint: it wasn’t Bill Buckner.
[6] IOTL, an overwhelming 94.7% percent of people in this same poll voted Clash of the Champions as better than Wrestlemania, while 3.8% (only 20 people!) preferred Wrestlemania, and 1.5% liked both shows about the same.
[7] IOTL, the ratings were a little better—the Clash drew an average 5.8 rating and a 12.6 share, and about 2½ million viewers every quarter hour. As OTL, the main event (Flair vs. Sting) was the highest-rated segment, drawing a 7.1 rating and 15 shares. Meltzer estimated (rather well) that the Clash was seen by about 6 million people. ITTL, the show still does well, but the ratings are lower due to Wrestlemania 4’s greater hype and success.
[8] This is the beginning of TTL’s version of The Varsity Club.
[9] Hinted at it in an earlier post, but those delicious frozen cinderblocks still exist ITTL. And a certain 9-year old kid from Chicago enjoys them immensely.
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Happy Thanksgiving to all my readers! As we chug along with the wrestling scene, we've dropped a few more hints about who's headed to the WWF, and the building blocks are set in place as to who the first WCW Champion will be. Also, I hope none of you are lactose intolerant--I brought ice cream for everyone.
Up next: the wheels are set in motion for a new WWF pay-per-view, a tournament in the NWA sets some new feuds in motion, another unfortunate injury, and a special report on music in the WWF.
I know we're nowhere near the point yet but with news of David Arquette's deathmatch against Nick Gage, I just gotta wonder if there are plans for him to join the business full time either transitioning to an acting career later than IOTL if not ending up in ECW (should it even become Extreme Championship Wrestling) and taking the role Tommy Dreamer did in history.
Just a fun thought I had since seeing him with the wicked wound in his neck.
Just a fun thought I had since seeing him with the wicked wound in his neck.
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