The Malouines War: France in the Falklands Redux
- Thread starter USS_Ward
- Start date
Deleted member 2186
How could you forget them, it’s like the British fighting OTL Falkland War without the Gurkhas.
Grammatically should be: Détachement de la Légion étrangère des Malouines
Also, I'm not convinced that the Foreign Legion would even have légionnaires present in the îles Malouines, as the smallest IOTL detachment is the 280 strong Détachement de la Légion étrangère de Mayotte, with no detachments in the more populous French Pacific.
Members of the Légion étrangère are légionnaire, singular, and légionnaires, plural.
I for one would not really know either. Im going off what @Palantir suggested to me. I will admit im not at all an expert on French government and military.
Fixed
Well, there are légionnaires in some of the "îles éparses" (the small islands in the Mozambique canal).
You can also have the Troupes de Marine (marsouins), like in some other islands. Anyway, you will have some forces from the Armée de Terre (most likely with 20 men maximum), like on almost any oversea territory France have (the exception being St-Pierre-et-Miquelon, right next to Canada and St-Martin and St-Barthelemy which were administratively attached to Guadeloupe).
Fair enough. I'll defer to you, as I'm not especially well versed on the deployment of the French military.
I'm apparently better suited to making sure that this story's French makes sense grammatically.
Yeah, im definitely gonna unintentionally butcher the French language. Plz catch these mistake and correct me.
Chapter 3
It didn’t take long before news of the capitulation of French Forces in the Malouines to reach Buenos Aires. Citizens took to the streets, celebrating their victory,after all it's not everyday a South American country “defeated” an European one. This sudden and relatively bloodless victory also helped divert public attention away from the Juntas other shortcomings.
In Paris however, the mood was far from jubilant. The Malouines after all, was part of the Département d'Outre-Mer and the Argentine invasion of it was equivalent (at least emotionally wise) to the Nazis capturing Sedan all over again. Needless to say, President Mitterrand was livid. Mitterand's anger was shared among everyone and much of France as well. Never since the Second World War had a Fascist government invaded French sovereign territory. And the scars and consequences of the subsequent occupation could still be felt among almost everyone.
Jeannou Lacaze, the Chef d'État-Major des Armées (Chief of the Defence Staff), Jean Saulnier, the Chef d'état-major particulier du président de la République (Chief of the Military Staff of the President of the Republic) and Chef d'État-Major de la Marine (Chief of Staff of the French Navy) Jean-René Lannuzel aptly watched as Mitterand paced about his office. Saulnier was proposing a long range bomber strike on Argentine forces on the island, using Mirage IV strategic bombers based out of Dakar, Senegal and refuelled by the air forces fleet of KC-135 tankers. Or, they could also ask the British and Americans for access to RAF Ascension Island, which would make basing the Mirages and KC-135’s much easier. Lannuzel however had a much different plan.
Afterall, what was the point of France having a navy with 2 fleet carriers if they weren’t going to actually use it. Plus, the Marine Nationale would be the force leading the way, escorting the troop vessels down to the Malouines allowing for recapture of the islands. Lannuzel also argued that the Mirage IV’s were liable to be shot down, since intelligence and rumors stated that the Argentines had begun to base IAI Daggers, and Mirage 3’s among others at the old Airforce base/airport at Port St. Louis. Thus it was decided that right now the current and best solution (and the one that made Lannuzel fairly happy) was to send the Marine Nationale down south to liberate the islands, with ships drawn from both the Atlantic Fleet and the Mediterranean Fleet, including the two Clemenceau class carriers.
On the other hand, coming within range of the Malouines and the airbase meant risk of attack on the fleet. The Argentines had taken possession of 14 Hawker Siddeley Buccaneer 2*’s [1] also known as Super Buccaneers which could carry up to 4 Spearfish AsHM’s [2], or a mixed load of conventional ordnance. The aircraft were roughly comparable to the French Dassault-Breguet Super Etendard and the Exocet missiles used by the Marine Nationale. Fortunately intelligence (discreetly provided by the British) determined that the Argentines had at most 6, most likely 5, Spearfish missiles available. An arms embargo effectively prevented any more from arriving in Argentina. However, the Marine Nationale was arguably one of the largest and most capable navies in Europe. Thus the threat of Spearfish AsHM’s could be offset with sheer numerical superiority, to put it bluntly.
Of course there was also the threat of the Argentine navy which by no means was not a joke. They possessed one carrier, the ex Karel Doorman, which itself was ex RN Majestic class HMS Venerable. It could carry A4 Skyhawks which were capable of being a threat to the Marine Nationale Taskforce. The navy was also the ones operating the Buccaneers and Spearfish AsHM's. They also had 2 modern West German Type 209's along with 2 ex USN GUPPY converted WW2 submarines.
And the surface also packed a punch too. The Argentines had 2 British Type 42 AAW destroyers, several es USN WW2 era destroyers and even an ex USN WW2 Light Cruiser, the General Belgrano. One can only imagine the devastation if the Belgrano got in among the Marine Nationale's fleet. Only the MN's own light Cruiser, the Colbert could theoretically match the Belgrano and that was a theory the MN and Lannuzel was not exactly keen on testing. On top of that intelligence had it that some of the ex USN Argentine vessels had been refitted with the Spearfish AsHM's.
Even so, the best option was to still send the MN down to the South Atlantic. With this tentative, work in progress plan in mind, Mitterand proceeded to prepare to meet with the Comités de Défense to discuss the best way to take quick and relevant responses to the crisis at hand. Rather that response be diplomatically or militarily. The Comités de Défense consisted of a half dozen key officials in the French government, among them including the French Prime Minister, Pierre Mauroy, Minister of the Armed Forces, Charles Hernu, and a rathered stressed and flustered looking Henri Emmanuelli, minister of Overseas France respectively, also included in the meeting was Nathanaël Ménétries who until about a week earlier was prefect of the Malouines Islands. He was now effectively forced into exile from the islands by the Argentines, albeit he was now becoming something of a National celebrity and hero in France. The Comités de Défense fully supported a military response if Argentina did not respond to the ultimatum to withdraw any and all forces from the Islands along with a declaration of war.
[1] Based off a proposed version for an upgraded model of the Buccaneer by Hawker Siddeley
[2] TTL version of the Sea Eagle (since Exocet means "flying fish" in French i wanted to keep in line with the "fish" name, if that makes sense), with performance equivalent to that of the Exocet. Also is a reference to one of Astrodragons FAA strike/torpedo bomber aircraft in "The Whales Has Wings".
In Paris however, the mood was far from jubilant. The Malouines after all, was part of the Département d'Outre-Mer and the Argentine invasion of it was equivalent (at least emotionally wise) to the Nazis capturing Sedan all over again. Needless to say, President Mitterrand was livid. Mitterand's anger was shared among everyone and much of France as well. Never since the Second World War had a Fascist government invaded French sovereign territory. And the scars and consequences of the subsequent occupation could still be felt among almost everyone.
Jeannou Lacaze, the Chef d'État-Major des Armées (Chief of the Defence Staff), Jean Saulnier, the Chef d'état-major particulier du président de la République (Chief of the Military Staff of the President of the Republic) and Chef d'État-Major de la Marine (Chief of Staff of the French Navy) Jean-René Lannuzel aptly watched as Mitterand paced about his office. Saulnier was proposing a long range bomber strike on Argentine forces on the island, using Mirage IV strategic bombers based out of Dakar, Senegal and refuelled by the air forces fleet of KC-135 tankers. Or, they could also ask the British and Americans for access to RAF Ascension Island, which would make basing the Mirages and KC-135’s much easier. Lannuzel however had a much different plan.
Afterall, what was the point of France having a navy with 2 fleet carriers if they weren’t going to actually use it. Plus, the Marine Nationale would be the force leading the way, escorting the troop vessels down to the Malouines allowing for recapture of the islands. Lannuzel also argued that the Mirage IV’s were liable to be shot down, since intelligence and rumors stated that the Argentines had begun to base IAI Daggers, and Mirage 3’s among others at the old Airforce base/airport at Port St. Louis. Thus it was decided that right now the current and best solution (and the one that made Lannuzel fairly happy) was to send the Marine Nationale down south to liberate the islands, with ships drawn from both the Atlantic Fleet and the Mediterranean Fleet, including the two Clemenceau class carriers.
On the other hand, coming within range of the Malouines and the airbase meant risk of attack on the fleet. The Argentines had taken possession of 14 Hawker Siddeley Buccaneer 2*’s [1] also known as Super Buccaneers which could carry up to 4 Spearfish AsHM’s [2], or a mixed load of conventional ordnance. The aircraft were roughly comparable to the French Dassault-Breguet Super Etendard and the Exocet missiles used by the Marine Nationale. Fortunately intelligence (discreetly provided by the British) determined that the Argentines had at most 6, most likely 5, Spearfish missiles available. An arms embargo effectively prevented any more from arriving in Argentina. However, the Marine Nationale was arguably one of the largest and most capable navies in Europe. Thus the threat of Spearfish AsHM’s could be offset with sheer numerical superiority, to put it bluntly.
Of course there was also the threat of the Argentine navy which by no means was not a joke. They possessed one carrier, the ex Karel Doorman, which itself was ex RN Majestic class HMS Venerable. It could carry A4 Skyhawks which were capable of being a threat to the Marine Nationale Taskforce. The navy was also the ones operating the Buccaneers and Spearfish AsHM's. They also had 2 modern West German Type 209's along with 2 ex USN GUPPY converted WW2 submarines.
And the surface also packed a punch too. The Argentines had 2 British Type 42 AAW destroyers, several es USN WW2 era destroyers and even an ex USN WW2 Light Cruiser, the General Belgrano. One can only imagine the devastation if the Belgrano got in among the Marine Nationale's fleet. Only the MN's own light Cruiser, the Colbert could theoretically match the Belgrano and that was a theory the MN and Lannuzel was not exactly keen on testing. On top of that intelligence had it that some of the ex USN Argentine vessels had been refitted with the Spearfish AsHM's.
Even so, the best option was to still send the MN down to the South Atlantic. With this tentative, work in progress plan in mind, Mitterand proceeded to prepare to meet with the Comités de Défense to discuss the best way to take quick and relevant responses to the crisis at hand. Rather that response be diplomatically or militarily. The Comités de Défense consisted of a half dozen key officials in the French government, among them including the French Prime Minister, Pierre Mauroy, Minister of the Armed Forces, Charles Hernu, and a rathered stressed and flustered looking Henri Emmanuelli, minister of Overseas France respectively, also included in the meeting was Nathanaël Ménétries who until about a week earlier was prefect of the Malouines Islands. He was now effectively forced into exile from the islands by the Argentines, albeit he was now becoming something of a National celebrity and hero in France. The Comités de Défense fully supported a military response if Argentina did not respond to the ultimatum to withdraw any and all forces from the Islands along with a declaration of war.
[1] Based off a proposed version for an upgraded model of the Buccaneer by Hawker Siddeley
[2] TTL version of the Sea Eagle (since Exocet means "flying fish" in French i wanted to keep in line with the "fish" name, if that makes sense), with performance equivalent to that of the Exocet. Also is a reference to one of Astrodragons FAA strike/torpedo bomber aircraft in "The Whales Has Wings".
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Deleted member 2186
Nice twist in having the British being the once to suply the Anti-ship missiles to Argentina, surprise me that Argentina instead of the Mirage 3 using something British, that would be fun to see.
Deleted member 2186
@USS_Ward if you need good scourges regarding the The Falklands War - Timeline you can check these links:
BATTLE ATLAS of the FALKLANDS WAR 1982 by Land, Sea and Air
74 days in 1982
Falklands War: Countdown & Conflict 1982
BATTLE ATLAS of the FALKLANDS WAR 1982 by Land, Sea and Air
74 days in 1982
Falklands War: Countdown & Conflict 1982
I was briefly considering having the Argentines operate BAE Lightnings, but thats even worse (in terms of combat range, loiter time etc) then the Mirage 3. Even if the Lightnings were to be operating from the islands air base.
Deleted member 2186
Even Lightnings can kill if they have good pilots.
Now i do hope Argentina pilots do not use Sidewinders which the British used in OTL.
Only the A4 skyhawks could carry Sidewinders which only could carry the AIM9B. The Mirages only used Matra Magic 1's. Problem is the French F8 Crusaders also used Matra Magic 1's and the unreliable R.530. So the playing ground is fairly initially even.
I don't doubt for a second that the US would be supplying the French with the AIM-9L.
Oh yeah in my original story the US supplied the French with the AIM-9L. The French used it, but not before losing a dozen or so F-8's when they originally tried to go it alone with the Matra Magic 1's.