The Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere...what was it really supposed to be like?

Discussion in 'Alternate History Books and Media' started by Chris S, Aug 2, 2010.

  1. Chris S Member

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    Okay, we can find tons of information about what Hitler (and to a lesser extent Mussolini) envisioned for Europe and (again to a lesser extent) the wider world. But when it comes to Asia and Japan's plans it all still seems rather sketchy and at times contradictory.

    We all know that Japan planned a "Greater East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere" but the composition of said sphere doesn't seem to be mapped on the web.

    From the Genocide we get this bit of info on it's composition:

    But elsewhere (e.g. with the excellent website and maps of JoaquĆ­n de Salas Vara de Rey http://www.terra.es/personal7/jqvaraderey/195045in.gif) I have seen plans for a "Mahamalaya" puppet state (state under Japanese influence) which consist of the remainder of Peninsular Malaya that hadn't been annexed to Thailand along with the Riau islands and Sumatra but excluding Singapore. Java and at least the southern Philippines were to be states under Japanese control and the rest of the East Indies (both the former Dutch and British East Indies) were to become Japanese colonies. In addition articles pertaining to the actual conduct of the war in the Pacific and Asia note that the Philippines had been established as a puppet "Second Republic of Philippines" (which seems to contradict the idea that the Philippines were to be directly governed by Japan as part of a Government-General of Formosa) and towards 1945 the Japanese established more states in Indochina than outlined in the Wiki article (namely Cambodia/Kampuchea (without Cochinchina), Vietnam (which did not seem to include Laos as envisioned for the Kingdom of Annam but included Cochinchina) and possibly Laos).

    The plans for India also seemed to differ depending on where on the net you go. There seems to have been plans for the India (British India, the Princely States and French and Portuguese Indias) to be a puppet state as a whole but the plans outlined from the Wiki have Burma taking all of pre-1950 Assam and large parts of pre-partition Bengal (and presumably all the Princely States between Assam and Bengal) while all of India south of Goa would be attached to Ceylon and governed as a Japanese colony and no mention being made of plans for the rest of India.

    Apart from that there is Mongolia with Mengjiang either being just Inner Mongolia or being Inner Mongolia plus Outer Mongolia. With Siberia and the Far East the Wiki mentions that these were not included in the plans for the Sphere but I have seen a map and mention online of discussion between Germany and Japan of dividing Asia with the Japanese preferring the 70th Meridian East (which would put most of Afghanistan and what is now western Pakistan under German control) while the Germans preferred the Yenisei River and then following the Sino-Soviet border and leaving Afghanistan and all of pre-1947 India under Japanese control.

    So does anyone have any good information on what was really planned and maybe a good map or two?
     
  2. John Fredrick Parker Well-Known Member

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    :eek:

    :eek::eek:

    Well, at least they weren't crazy enough to try for California... though I thought I heard that somewhere too...
     
  3. Raptor22 Member

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    While Japan getting Australia would have been a huge stretch and possibly ASB, there's no way I can see them getting Washington state (even if they win more battles in Alaska).
     
  4. Emperor Norton I Calbear's Love Child

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    The Japanese were far too optimistic about their prospects, but I've never heard of them actually believing they'd get things like Washington. Australia and India were hard to believe; US territory besides some dots in Alaska is testament to how whacked out the military heads were.
     
  5. Adam Tengen Toppa Union Jack!

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    There's no way they'd win more battles in Alaska. The weather itself is enough to ensure that.
     
  6. Chris S Member

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    Well I doubt anyone believes the Japanese would actually get Washington state and so forth, but I'm just trying to determine what Japan's plans (no matter how ridiculous) actually were.
     
  7. The Vet Member

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    Can someone do a map of what it would have looked like?
     
  8. Emperor Norton I Calbear's Love Child

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    The super-Co-prosperity sphere we're all calling rabidly ASB?
     
  9. Chris S Member

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    Actually I wouldn't mind a map of it either. Some aspects of the Nazis and Mussolini's plans were ASB but we have maps of them all over the place.

    More importantly though I would like if anyone who has more information on the plans could actually post them.
     
  10. Chris S Member

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    Mar 12, 2005
    I suppose nobody knows anything more than what has been said already. Darn. Was hoping somebody would know something more or have a book or something.

    Well, here is a rough map based mainly off the Wikipedia article on it. The grey boundaries are the borders between the government-general regions.

    Greater East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere I.png
     
  11. NothingNow Banned

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    The Idea of a Japanese Cuba is more than a little laughable.
     
  12. Adam Tengen Toppa Union Jack!

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    Moreso than Japanese Colombia?

    Hmm, time to get the atomic bombers out, me thinks..
     
  13. mdc_1957 Moved on from the forum

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    From the old history papers I've read, the WW2!Japanese saw themselves as at the top-tier (if not the top) of the international community. And that they perceived this community as sort of mirroring the old Shogunate caste system. Thus they thought of themselves as Asia's elder brother, rather than China, and that all of it should be placed under its enlightened rule. In practice, you know the rest.
     
  14. Emperor Norton I Calbear's Love Child

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    "You Yankees focus on your atomic bomb, while we have developed the true ultimate weapon...The Space Bat!"
     
  15. Adam Tengen Toppa Union Jack!

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    The Space Bat backfires on them...

    Horribly!

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Emperor Norton I Calbear's Love Child

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    What game is dat?
     
  17. Adam Tengen Toppa Union Jack!

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  18. Cook Real friends stab you in the front.

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    Australia was intended to be incorporated into the Sphere by political pressure rather than invasion.
    Various proposals to attack parts of Australia were to neutralise it as a threat and base of operations, not to permanently occupy.
     
  19. The Kiat I'm going to Nixonland!

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    It's called Making History, and its far more simplified than Hearts of Iron, for those who just want to wade on in an conquer the world.
     
  20. Adam Tengen Toppa Union Jack!

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    Hearts of Iron II isn't realistic either, just with more details and micro-management...