Tartessos seems to be a likely canidate for an alternate Ancient Empire. From this postion in the South of Spain it seems to be in a unquie postion to control trade from the Western coast of Europe, and from Britian. Also if we turned their attentions to using the resources at hand, well we might have a very powerful empire. I don't mean just Iberia either. I mean a coalition of Britian, France's Coast, Northwestren Africa, and the Iberian Pensula. But if anyone has a better way than this semimythical city....Say a way of uniting the native population of the British Isles, and those of Germanic/Frankish tribes.
Tartessos not Rome.
- Thread starter Othniel
- Start date
That's Mede.DominusNovus said:
And the small green country is New Tyre. It's kind like a mini-Carthage, a colony of Phoenicia. It only exists because Egypt and Mede backs its exsistance (They each get a 7% tribute for the naval backing.) Tartessos doesn't take it over because they wish to keep these major trade routes. Etrusca on the other hand sees it as a buffer.
Last edited:
Unfortunately there is not one POD. You know when the Medes and Persians invaded Babylon? Well the Medes kept dominance over Persians. In the west Tartessos keeps its power and uses major trade to envoke infulence over the Iberian Penisula, the Coast of France, Northren Africa and over Britian, land of tin. Germania is a allience between gauls and Celts. The year is 120 B.C.
In this timeline the Babylonians manged to hold power for a time this time over extenting themselves into the west. (reaching Albania) It was their nature to move people around. So they took the Turks from their homes and stirred them up into different reigons, especailly towards Greece. Of corse I'm tampering on multitribe levels so bare with me. Eutruscans not only managed to surive the Latins, but managed to marry them all in...Tartessos manages not only to surive, but to florish by uniting those along its Westren Trade Routes. The Great Sea has been stirred up, waiting for an Empire of Iron to come forth.
So here in lies the challange...While still being BC, how can this happen? If you feel implused to change Turkland into some other Enity do so. (but I must say that I have an attachment to the history of the turkish peoples....hehe) But the presence of the Tartessosians must stay. Secondly, I'm wondering how they would effect each other into the traditional middle ages. I'm leaning toward Tartessos colonising a number of coastal reigons maybe even getting into disputes with Nordic once they reach North America.
P.S.
What's the Basque word for End of the Earth?
P.S.
What's the Basque word for End of the Earth?
Grey Wolf
Donor
What nation is represented by the colour aquamarine in Germany ?
I am really out of my depth here. What would really help is a very brief chronological timeline. Doesn't need to have explanations just some of the details you've pulled out of the hat, arranged into a timeline.
Otherwise, it looks very interesting and the idea behind it seems sound. I've often wondered what would happen if Rome hadn't expanded to brush aside every other empire or major nation of the period. Whilst this doesn't directly address that, it presents the similar sort of result that I was wondering about
Grey Wolf
I am really out of my depth here. What would really help is a very brief chronological timeline. Doesn't need to have explanations just some of the details you've pulled out of the hat, arranged into a timeline.
Otherwise, it looks very interesting and the idea behind it seems sound. I've often wondered what would happen if Rome hadn't expanded to brush aside every other empire or major nation of the period. Whilst this doesn't directly address that, it presents the similar sort of result that I was wondering about
Grey Wolf
The aquamariene is Germanic lands that are kept by the (uncivilised) tribes of Gauls, Celts, Goths, Visigoths and others.....
In 612 BC Babylon becomes the capital of Babylonia.
609 B.C. New Tyre is estabilzed.
605- 588 Under the rule of king Nebuchadnezzar their territory extented from the edge of Persia to what in the OTL today is called Albania. Many tribes are displaced, especially the Turks and Syrians.
600 BC - 580 Tartessos grows to cover most of southren Iberia.
538 BC Babylon is sacked by the Medes and Persians. The Medes as stronger tribe rule, the Persians incorperated into their millitary.
532- 528 BC Egypt gains Independance, incorperates Canaan.
530-522 Medes unable to hold the Balklands, The Turks wrestle control of the area from both greeks and Macedonias.
572- 564 Tartessos gains control of Carthage, and manages to incorperate Westren France.
583-491 Eturia starts unifing the Itailan Penisula.
With that all except for the two Northren Nations are establizied.
In 612 BC Babylon becomes the capital of Babylonia.
609 B.C. New Tyre is estabilzed.
605- 588 Under the rule of king Nebuchadnezzar their territory extented from the edge of Persia to what in the OTL today is called Albania. Many tribes are displaced, especially the Turks and Syrians.
600 BC - 580 Tartessos grows to cover most of southren Iberia.
538 BC Babylon is sacked by the Medes and Persians. The Medes as stronger tribe rule, the Persians incorperated into their millitary.
532- 528 BC Egypt gains Independance, incorperates Canaan.
530-522 Medes unable to hold the Balklands, The Turks wrestle control of the area from both greeks and Macedonias.
572- 564 Tartessos gains control of Carthage, and manages to incorperate Westren France.
583-491 Eturia starts unifing the Itailan Penisula.
With that all except for the two Northren Nations are establizied.
Last edited:
Ok under Suggestion of a few people, I'm going to make this a little more ethnicly diverse. First off Babylon will still extent past Greece, and secondly Tartessos will still exsist in its attempts of a controled trading routes to the southren coast of Britian and France. And lastly the latins and the Persians are unable to eclipse their rulers. With that being said I think I'll start in 800 BC and work towards 300 AD. Then for a period of time I'll start devolping a part two.
With that being said, who has a nice map of ethnicities around 800 BC?
With that being said, who has a nice map of ethnicities around 800 BC?
Othniel said:
Thwìere's a very serious theory by a Sardinian scholar, Sergio Frau, that his island could be the real homeland of the Tartessos civilization - in that tartessos would have been actually the city of Tharros (ruins some twenty kms west of Oristano). He describes the Strait of Sicily as the ancients' Hercules' Pillars, contrary to the widespread belief they were the Strait of Gibraltar. According to his theory, the ancient Sardinians, when their civilization fell, partrly migrated to continental Italy to constituite the bulk of the Etruscan people, likely with the historically quoted an Egeo-Asian immigration wave as well.
Hm, then Othniel's scenario would go more like this (I've also made a few changes of my own, because I'm like that):basileus said:
In 612 BC Babylon becomes the capital of Babylonia.
609 B.C. New Tyre is estabilshed. It will quickly dominate Eastern Iberia.
605- 588 Under the rule of king Nebuchadnezzar their territory extented from the edge of Persia to what in the OTL today is called Albania. Many tribes are displaced, especially the Turks and Syrians. The Syrians will flee to Cyprus, where the City of Name? is established in the Eastern part of the islands.
600 BC - 580 Tartessos expands across Corsica and Southern Italy.
538 BC Babylon is sacked by the Medes and Persians. The Medes, as a stronger tribe, become the rulers, and the Persians incorperated into their millitary and are eventually assimilated.
532- 528 BC Egypt gains Independance, and incorperates Canaan.
530-522 Medes unable to hold the Balklands, A greek city league, led by Byzantium, forces the Greeks out of Greek-populated lands, and the Turks force Mede out of the rest of the Balkans. Greek is currently all controlled by Byzantium, but Turkland is independent from Byz.
572- 564 Tartessos gains control of North Italy, and manages to incorperate the Alpine lands and parts of France.
583-491 New Tyre begins unifing the Iberian Peninsula.
How widely is the "Tartessos-On-Sardinia" theory accepted?
It's gaining increasing acceptance, a matter of intense debate. If fully accepted, it would be a revolution in ancient history AND geography.
Just try a translation of this (I hope it won't get too massacred): http://www.sardinews.it/11_02/09.html
Just try a translation of this (I hope it won't get too massacred): http://www.sardinews.it/11_02/09.html
Makes a bit more sense than my timeline in gerneral. Although I'm beginning to think Canaan and Phoenica would pretty much pay tribute to keep both Egypt and Medes. I do admit 'Turkland' could be greatly diversified. Although were Tartessos is tradiationally placed makes for a good way to get a empire unfied by money!(Heck they don't have the number of laws Romans have, so I'm thinking the idvidual would be better off finicially.)
For the hell of it, I'm continuing my altered Tartessos timeline- I'd like to see a continuation of Othniel's as well, as I want to see how the 30 BC map happens.
490-470 New Syria, capital at (Name?), takes over all of Cyprus.
481-479 Turkland and Byzantium go to war over some trivial matter. The war only manages to weaken both powers, Turkland especially.
475-460 Tartessos attacks Turkland, but only makes minor gains. Carthage goes to war with New Tyre, and gains a foothold in Iberia.
459-456 The Angles of Jutland migrate towards Northern France, where they establish Angle-Land (Merely for the sake of having England in France)
455-449 The Sviones conquer the Danes, and with it, all of Jutland. A powerful Svione Kingdom is established in the north.
448 Tartessos attacks Germania, but is forced back by an alliance of several tribes. These will colesce into a buffer state between Tartessos and Svionland.
447-441 Svionland attacks parts of East Britain, forcing the Celtic tribes there west.
435 Byzantium becomes a Republic after the Despot (An actual title) is overthrown.
433-425 Lusitanian tribes break free of New Tyran control. New Tyre looks to the northlands between it and England for expansion.
420-415 New Syria attacks Egypt. The war is mostly a stalemate, but in the end New Syria has a foothold in Canaan.
So I put a powerful state in Scandinavia (From what we know of the Sviones, they were forerunners of the Swedes and good shipbuilders, thus I have them messing around in Britain), and had more states survive than did in OTL. By the way, when did the Jews leave Egypt? If it's before the POD, they may decide that they don't like the Egyptians or New Syrians- But perhaps I'm hijacking Othinel's thread.
490-470 New Syria, capital at (Name?), takes over all of Cyprus.
481-479 Turkland and Byzantium go to war over some trivial matter. The war only manages to weaken both powers, Turkland especially.
475-460 Tartessos attacks Turkland, but only makes minor gains. Carthage goes to war with New Tyre, and gains a foothold in Iberia.
459-456 The Angles of Jutland migrate towards Northern France, where they establish Angle-Land (Merely for the sake of having England in France)
455-449 The Sviones conquer the Danes, and with it, all of Jutland. A powerful Svione Kingdom is established in the north.
448 Tartessos attacks Germania, but is forced back by an alliance of several tribes. These will colesce into a buffer state between Tartessos and Svionland.
447-441 Svionland attacks parts of East Britain, forcing the Celtic tribes there west.
435 Byzantium becomes a Republic after the Despot (An actual title) is overthrown.
433-425 Lusitanian tribes break free of New Tyran control. New Tyre looks to the northlands between it and England for expansion.
420-415 New Syria attacks Egypt. The war is mostly a stalemate, but in the end New Syria has a foothold in Canaan.
So I put a powerful state in Scandinavia (From what we know of the Sviones, they were forerunners of the Swedes and good shipbuilders, thus I have them messing around in Britain), and had more states survive than did in OTL. By the way, when did the Jews leave Egypt? If it's before the POD, they may decide that they don't like the Egyptians or New Syrians- But perhaps I'm hijacking Othinel's thread.