Tartessos not Rome.

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Othniel, Feb 11, 2005.

  1. Othniel Comrade General-Secretary

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    581 BC Eturia takes on the policy of regementing the defeated foes instead of using the majority for funeral games.
    573 BC Troops of primarially from Rome have a 'Pyrric Victory' are used to push through into the north. Rome's king is replaced by a Etruscan prince more to the peoples liking.
    567 BC The Sammites fall to Eturia.
    519 BC Turkland falls to civil war.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2005
  2. Othniel Comrade General-Secretary

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    The map in post twevle is no longer valid, but is still fun to ponder at....
     
  3. Nicole Parallel Universe Imajin

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    What will happen in the Turkland Civil War? Will the turks or some other group establish supremacy over the others, or will the entire country fall apart into smaller states?
     
  4. Othniel Comrade General-Secretary

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    Your making it sound like an episode of Batman.
     
  5. Condottiero Knight of the Square Table

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    By this time Lusitanian tribes would be ethnically and culturally the same as the rest of Iberians, as there are no celts around. Why should they revolt?

    I am also getting a bit confused about the New Tyre/Tartessos differences. Where is New Tyre?

    Anyway it is a very interesting timeline.
     
  6. DuQuense Commisioned Officer CSN

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    I still don't see how You can get Turks this early. At this point they were a minor tribe living in the Northeastern Steppes [ Steppes- North of India, east of the Aral] You would be better off with either the Kushians or the Ye-ti [white Huns] which are the two main Tribes that Migrated out in the 600 BC -100-ad time frame.

    If the Kush [600 BC] move west around the bottom of the Caspian into Turkey, instead of east into north Pakistan, You not only get to change the whole Black Sea, but get ripples into north India, that affects the whole Ye-ti [around 100 ad] Empire.
     
  7. Othniel Comrade General-Secretary

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    I redid the map: (no Turks, No New Tyre [BTW New Tyre was a Punic Colony much like Carthage once upon a time, Imiijin's timeline has Tartessos placed in Sardinia, and New Tyre taking over south of the Pyrreness. I mark Tartessos so everyone could see where I think it is.])
    Peach is Tartessos.
    Tartessos was a liberial culture with trading ties along the Westren coast of Europe and up into Britian. Their trading ties (in the alternate timeline) allow them an opening into Celtic society, and their ideals seem to attract many into this trade based empire. It is not totally unreasonable to believe that as this culture continues to exsist that those along their trade routes ask for some protection and continued econmic prosperity by having a more permanate relationship (i.e. join the Tartessos Empire)

    Forest Green is now a loose federation of Celtic tribes that began to embed themselves under the indirect protection of the Tartessos. This settlement is more like a Southren Gaul.

    The Pinkleweary blue is Eturia, the Etruscans in control of northren Italy. They are attempting to grow. More importantly the Latins have started disappearing as a people as they are married into the Etruscan ranks.(Need more information on how they would keep revolts from happening in the reigoin, thank you.)

    South of that, the white countries, is the Osci (Sannites and Lucani) dominated Adriatic Allience.

    Purple is the Delian Allience, dominated by Athens.

    The Olive color is the Helisponitic League.

    Bright Red is the Kingdom of Crete.

    The pale yellow is Asia Minor. (insert national identity here)

    Sense Syria got majorly hammered in this Timeline the Lebanoness take control of their territory quite easily. It is pale Orange.

    Teal is the unorganized tribes of the British Isles!

    The pink is Germanic Nordica. Sense this was about where they where at the time I gave them a seris of good reasons to stay in the area (higher crop yeild, a poplulation boom of deer and other game in the area, and a more mild winters.)

    Grey is the reigon Greeks call 'Barbaric Wastelands'.

    Maroon is Egypt,

    And the pinkish area where Persia is, well I'm still saying the Medes have dominance.

    The aquamairne is Celtia.

    The navy is Ammon, since the Phillistines are broken, the Phoenicians scattered, the Jews are all over Mede, Edom slain, and Moab is firmly under grips. (If anyone has a better nation to fill Canaan, tell me please!)

    Tartessos400bcEur.GIF
     
  8. Condottiero Knight of the Square Table

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    Who ruled after Argantonios? I am eager to have news from their dinasty...
     
  9. Othniel Comrade General-Secretary

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    Any suggestions? I'm thinking this time of doing the timeline in a more narritive format. Stay tuned, I even give the Tartessos a reason to set up colonies in the New World. (Now I'm making it sound like Batman) Obviously there are alot of bugs to work out. And obvisously I'm making this up as I go. So please be patient with me....
     
  10. Othniel Comrade General-Secretary

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    Which timeline are you speaking of? Mine or Imiijins? Care to eleborate on who they are?
     
  11. Condottiero Knight of the Square Table

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    Yours. I was just guessing...

    Where is Imajin's?
     
  12. Othniel Comrade General-Secretary

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    That's his....
     
  13. Othniel Comrade General-Secretary

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    Who was Argantinos?
     
  14. Condottiero Knight of the Square Table

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    Argantonio was a king of Tartessos, reputed from several clasical greek writers to have had an impressive longevity (120 to 150 years). He was very rich and friend to the greeks, in fact it is said that he paid the walls of Focea in order to help the city to defend from the Persians.

    Other mythological Tartessian kings were:

    * Gargoris, the founder and the one who discovered apiculture, he fell in love to one of his daughters with whom he had one son Habidis. Fearing the gods for his sin, he decided to kill the baby and ordered one of his soldiers to do it. The soldier did not dare to kill one baby but left it in the wilderness.
    * Habydis, Gargoris' grandson, was raised by some animals and grew up. Later on, he came back to Tartessos and devastated the land and defeated his grandfather. They ruled together until the death of Gargoris.
    * Gideon, the one whose oxen Heracles stole.
     
  15. Othniel Comrade General-Secretary

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    I'm going to have to make up quite a bit on namesAre you willing to wait on that? I'll do my reaseach on names popular in Iberia at that time and use those...but not until after I start making solid descions.
     
  16. Condottiero Knight of the Square Table

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    OK. But there's more myth than anything over Tartessos. Some small findings had been done, but even Schliemann was not able to find it. I'll check what info I can get...
     
  17. Hierophant The Unyielding

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    There is another theory that says Tartessos is located at the mouth of the Ebro river in what was Aragorn, near the city of Tortosa (Tartessos).
     
  18. Condottiero Knight of the Square Table

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    Some info I have found

    TARTESSOS A native Iberian city and Kingdom, once controlling much of southern Spain, The location of the city is not known exactly; the best estimates place it in or near the La Marismas wetlands, close to the modern estuary of the Guadalquivir River, by the southern coast of Iberia and facing the Atlantic. Established prior to 800 BCE, the place was an important source of copper and silver to the ancient world, and was a well-known, if very distant, port-of-call to many peoples: Biblical notes regarding the city of Tarshish are probably refering to this place.

    Celto-Iberian migrations into the region from before 1300 BCE.
    Turdetanian tribal district from c. 1000-800
    Kings:
    Chrysa'or
    Geryon
    Norax (the one who colonized Corsica)
    Gargoris
    Habis or Habidis
    Arganthonis....................................c. 620-early 6th cent.
    To Carthage....................................c. 510-206
    To Rome, etc...
    Tartessos fades from view during Carthaginian times. It seems to have been damaged or destroyed when the Carthaginians assumed control of the region, but a more important reason for it's disappearance was probably the gradual silting of the Guadalquivir estuary with attendent shifting of the riverbed, creating a malarial wetlands where the river had once flowed.


    "Festos Disc" found in Crete and dated probably in 1500 BC may contain tartessian signs/letters.

    * * * * *

    Other sources:

    http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartesos
    tartessos.info


    Not many in english sorry
     
  19. Othniel Comrade General-Secretary

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    Enytomoglist-wise what langue do those names sound like they come from? Celtic? Yes, this helps me even more, a greeco-celtic culture would move the story along quite nicely. Most likely it would make my trade empire much easier to hold together....and with Celtia a much friendlier relationship possible. I wonder what would happen if I mix gaelic, basque and greek together...
    Also as this timeline goes on put in a stronger infastructure in Ireland and in Northren and Westren France.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2005
  20. Condottiero Knight of the Square Table

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    Although the origin of the basque is not clear, some iberic inscriptions have been translated using basque, so I think it is quite reasonable to use it. Maybe a mixture of basque and greek would be fine.