Minerva ante portas! A Roman Scientific Revolution

Egypt was also quite conservative, but on the other hand had an Absolute Monarchy. I'm totally down for a charismatic and powerful Pharaoh funding scientific development in Egypt, and the Romans then deciding to steal a 'finished' product - much less ASB.

Yup, pretty much the plan.

Good day. I liked your timeline. I created a theme also affect the development of scientific thought in that era. I invite you, perhaps during the discussion poyavyatsya interesting ideas -
https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/wi-heliocentric-hellenism.399589/

I'll add what I found so far on possible or lost PODs about astronomy to your discussion.

As for my own timeline. We will jump a bit into the future. The reason behind that is that I need to read a bit more about Cleopatra's life. Until then I'll use some basic material I already have from previous research. Still, that doesn't mean things won't go into unpredictable directions. Just as a teaser/spoiler I completely overlooked the potential of passive immunity trough blood transfusion so far.
 
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The Art of Rejuvenation
The Art of Rejuvenation


A Visit of the Asclepeion (Pergamon, 70 ACE)

It was hot even in the morning, hot enough that you could almost feel water evaporating with any breath. Most people he had met during his stroll so far, had done their best to cover themselves, with garment in the style of the local desert nomads, so called ccc. They were walking in a hurry to reach some more shadowy places, seeking their cold comfort. He however enjoyed the heat, it helped cleanse out the foul miasma plaguing his aging body, or so he hoped at least. There were many theories about disease and ailings floating around these days. Now he arrived at the Asclepeion a healing temple, decicated Asclepius, the greek god of medicine.

Starting around 350 BC, the cult of Asclepius became increasingly popular. Pilgrims flocked to his temples, the asclepieia to be healed. They slept overnight a process called "incubation" and reported their dreams to a priest the following day. The priests would then prescribe a cure, often a visit to the baths or the gymnasium.

Since snakes were sacred to Asclepius, they were often used in healing rituals. Non-venomous snakes were left to crawl on the floor in dormitories where the sick and injured slept. Asclepeia provided carefully controlled spaces conducive to healing and fulfilled several of the requirements of institutions created for healing. Hippocrates is said to have received his medical training at an asclepieion on the isle of Kos.

However it was not Kos, but the Asclepeion of Pergamon in cooperation with the Library of Pergamon that over time had earned its place among the triumvirate of the greatest scholarly institution in the Roman Empire. When people spoke of this instituition, the Asclepaeum it evoked the same awe as the Museaeum of Alexandria or the Minveraeum of Rome (1) and the a truly rare feat.

Finally the pilgrim arrived at the Asclepeion, or more precisely, he was standing right in front of the Fountain of Medea, which depicted the ancient mythological sorceress working here magic.

Medea took her unsheaved knife and cut the old man’s throat, letting all of his old blood out of him. She filled his veins with a rich elixir, which he received through his lips and wound. His beard and hair, no longer white with age, turned quickly to their natural vigour, dark and lustrous; and his wasted form renewed, appeared in all the vigour of bright youth.”

He somehow felt the need to recited Ovid’s Metaphor as he had to do so many times in his youth under the watchful eyes of his teacher. To be young again, he thought.

Starting all over again, maybe this time he would make the right decisions or just different misktakes, who knew. But for now his attention was wholly consumed by the piece of craftsmanship in front of him. The fountain itself was quiet a piece of art, the blood, or water in this case pouring out of old Aeson's throat. He did his best to savor every moment, to catch every ray of the sun that got reflected in the gushing elixir of life. And he had to admit the cooling effect of flowing water, was welcome, heat purging miasma or not. “Salve Senex”

It seemed this moment wasn’t meant to last last. “I hope I didn’t interrupt you contemplations but would you tell me your name visitor.” a young novice of the Asclepeion greeted him sheepishly. The boy didn't knew much about the guest but those that could afford their modern treatments these days were men of high status and wealth.

“My name is ccc, I have an appointment with Athenaeus.”

“Of course. Standing in the heat of the morning sun, all alone. That can't be good for your health. I’ll immediately guide you to his office. As you will notice, the building is well cooled.”

Asclepius, was ready to make one of his infamous quips, that came with the trade of being a renown master of rhetoric, something in the lieu of still being hot blood by nature but the youth seemed a bit to inexperienced to take such jest the right way. Instead he took a last breath of fresh, clean air before the strong smell of bleach could overwhelmed him (2).

Athenaeus meanwhile was humming to himself while flushed his transfusion instrument with bleach water. There were many different theories how exactly disease spread contagion, microbes, miasma or and unbalanced diet. But the first three explanations at least all had in common that they could be fought by dousing everything in bleach. Thus the smell of chlorine had become a familiar not only to doctor like himself but anybody living in the more civilized, healthy parts of the imperium as they say “Pax, Purus, Lux Roma”.

Usually this was the work of novice, servants and slaves, but for those patients he treated personally he wasn’t willing to risk any failure by others if it could be avoided. The equipment in this case were two simple hollow silver needles connected by a tube made of Garamanten resin (3). This would allow for the easiest, safest way to replace blood of the old man with some fresh young blood. Blood typing might also be in order. The donors were exclusevily type zero. But a further diagnosis and the subsequent treatment plan would require more information.



Asclepiades And The Origins Of Blood Therapy (129 – 40 BC)

Asclepiades of Bithyniawas born at Prusa in Bithynia in Asia Minor and flourished at Rome, where he established Greek medicine near the end of the 2nd century BC. He attempted to build a new theory of disease, based on the flow of atoms through pores in the body. His treatments sought to restore harmony through the use of diet, exercise, and bathing.

It is not known when he died, except that it was at an advanced age. It was said that he laid a wager with Fortuna, that he would forfeit his character as a physician if he should ever suffer from any disease himself. Pliny the Elder, who tells the anecdote, adds that he won his wager, for he reached a great age and died at last from an accident. He received the names Philosophicus due to his knowledge of philosophy and Pharmacion for his knowledge of medicinal herbs. Antiochus of Ascalon said about Asclepiades, "second to none in the art of medicine and acquainted with philosophy too”.

Discarding the humoral doctrine of Hippocrates, he attempted to build a new theory of disease, and founded his medical practice on a modification of the atomic or corpuscular theory, according to which disease results from an irregular or inharmonious motion of the corpuscles of the body. His ideas were likely partly derived from the atomic theories of Democritus and Epicurus. All morbid action was reduced to the obstruction of pores and irregular distribution of atoms.

His remedies were, therefore, directed to the restoration of harmony. He trusted much to changes of diet, massages, bathing and exercise, though he also employed emetics and bleeding. A part of the great popularity which he enjoyed depended upon his prescribing the liberal use of wine to his patients, and upon his attending to their every need, and indulging their inclinations. He would treat all his patients fairly and not discriminate based upon gender or mental illness. He believed treating his patients kindly and amicably was a staple to being a good physician. Cito tuto jucunde meaning to treat his patients "swiftly, safely, and sweetly" was a motto that he followed.

Many physicians during his era had a tendency to be uncaring and have a lack of sympathy towards their patients. As many of his contemporary he saw the work of Herophilos and Bacchius as important to treat certain conditions. However he also recognized that charlatans,who used shock treatment and resurrection demonstration to dazzle their patrons had soured the medical instrument's reputation in serious scholarly circles.

He changed his opinion however when he learned on an ongoing discussion between Philodemus and Lucretian on a novel theory, that Baccius battery could produce pneuma topor powerful enough to split water into its atoms. Not only that but they could also be reform back into water again. Although he was not too fond of who sought to investigate the structure of the body, or to watch the phenomena of disease such as Hippocrates, he still succumbed to his own curiosity.



Notes

(1) Minveraeum of Rome, founded by Ceasar as a roman answer to the (reformed) Musaeum. The actual organization of the institution was done by Marcus Terentius Varro.

(2) The background story behind this development is mainly based on the life and work of Antoine Germain Labarraque (1777 – 1850) notable for formulating and finding important uses for "Eau de Labarraque" or "Labarraque's solution", a solution of sodium hypochlorite.

(3) The name of natural rubber in this timeline.
.
Sources

wikipedia: all people’s biography and places
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Using_Roman_names#Usage_of_the_Roman_names
David Souza/F.M.D Hocking (1935): Changes in the coagulability of the blood produced by critic acid and some of its decomposition products.
The Big Lye (History of Sodium Hydroxide as We Know it Today)


People


Athenaeus of Attalia (1st century AD)
Asclepiades of Bithynia (129 – 40 BC)
Titus Lucretius Carus (99 BC– 55 BC in OTL) but (99 BC– c. 25 BC in this timeline)
Philodemus of Gadara (110 B.C - 35 BC)
Herophilos of Chalcedon (335–280 BC)
Bacchius of Tanagra (275–??? BC)
 
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All your TLs, ComradeHuxley, sooner or later veer into the territory of weird Frankensteinian medical practices that as far as I can tell yield results that would be incredible in the light of common modern medical methods and understandings, and have physicians capable of performing feats that would be miraculous where not downright scary if they could be done today--yet are carried off by doctors with mere 19th century tools, or here even more primitive methods seem to work.

What are your grounds for holding that these bizarre practices would actually work?

I may just be out of my depth with biology, but do people who understand these things affirm they are workable?
 
Just want to say I appreciate the title change.

While Industrial Romans had always appealed to me, it's unfortunately a spectacularly difficult undertaking.

This timeline is so far focusing on the building blocks of the building blocks that will lead to industry centuries down the track - while examining the handicaps brought on by a fundamentally less developed world.

For now, a scientific revolution is more appropriate. :)
 
All your TLs, ComradeHuxley, sooner or later veer into the territory of weird Frankensteinian medical practices that as far as I can tell yield results that would be incredible in the light of common modern medical methods and understandings, and have physicians capable of performing feats that would be miraculous where not downright scary if they could be done today--yet are carried off by doctors with mere 19th century tools, or here even more primitive methods seem to work.

What are your grounds for holding that these bizarre practices would actually work?

I may just be out of my depth with biology, but do people who understand these things affirm they are workable?

The stuff I write is always based on actual research done in our timeline. The appropriate studies can be found in the Source section of the individual posts. As why we didn’t or don’t do all the stuff in our timeline? That a questions of ethics, economics and luck. But if anybody finds flaws in the chain of events described so far please tell me. I welcome any constructive criticism by those more knowledgeable in the field then me.

As for how weird medical techwanks can go, the next chapter will be based on the discovery and “mass” production of estrogen/testosterone in Song China that actually happened in our timeline. It really shows how having the right/wrong theory combined with some good, empirical research and luck led to someing indcredible. It really shows how having the right/wrong theory combined with some good, empirical research and luck led to something incredible. Although without leaving a lasting legacy unfortunately.
 
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The stuff I write is always based on actual research done in our timeline. The appropriate studies can be found in the Source section of the individual posts. As why we didn’t or don’t do all the stuff in our timeline? That a questions of ethics, economics and luck. But if anybody finds flaws in the chain of events described so far please tell me. I welcome any constructive criticism by those more knowledgeable in the field then me.

As for how weird medical techwanks can go, the next chapter will be based on the discovery and “mass” production of estrogen/testosterone in Song China that actually happened in our timeline. It really shows how having the right/wrong theory combined with some good, empirical research and luck led to someing indcredible. It really shows how having the right/wrong theory combined with some good, empirical research and luck led to something incredible. Although without leaving a lasting legacy unfortunately.

This led me to read your latest passage more carefully. Here's what I pick up:

1) Antiseptics being adopted; this will presumably greatly lower the death rate among those who go to doctors, making medicine of this school more popular. More popular means more revenue, attracting more candidates into this profession, enhancing the prestige of this particular school of medicine. To be sure loads of charlatans, as well as well meaning practitioners with different beliefs, will dilute the groundswell of popularity somewhat. But more followers of this school who are more successful will result in accelerated development of medicine along these lines; more practitioners means more cases, more consideration of different hypotheses, a snowballing effect.

Also generalizing the idea of antisepsis might change the statistics of warfare considerably, if Roman or rival armies take the idea of bringing sawbones along. If the death rate among soldiers on campaign falls due to more stringent practices then that military force has an advantage over rivals that are slower to incorporate a medical corps.

Insofar as the Army is the State in this era, official state patronage of this school of medicine will reinforce the school still further and tend to popularize its ideas by official sanction.

2) Blood typing? This seems to be casually mentioned as though it were discovered quite some time before and is now a commonplace!

3) via the indirect route of thinking of citrus fruits as electrical sources, the effects of vitamins seem to be mistaken for the effects of electrification, whatever that precisely means in context (hooking blood and patients up to electrical charge sources?) Anyway if citrus is favored because it "electrifies" patients, they get the benefit of the vitamins, perhaps. Better health, stronger soldiers, healthier peasants and artisans, a more prosperous empire. Perhaps one that shifts away from mass plantation/enterprise slavery and toward more market-based capital/worker relations?

Or then again, techniques for making workers healthier might be applied by slave owners. Slaves have the dilemma that the master only wants them to be healthier to work them harder; resistance might lead to self-sabotage of their health. But the conflict of interest might also lure some slaves into better compliance, and if masters take to rewarding the more compliant with better diet and healthier working conditions than their more recalcitrant shackle-mates, perhaps some of the workplace dynamic of capitalism can be introduced into big centrally run slave operations. Realistically since the Classical world is not really ready yet for a proper capitalist setup with the working masses being alienated from primary means of production (they'd starve if they didn't have any access to land of their own; trade in food and other essentials is not reliable enough to replace community craft work) then perhaps a more capitalistic slavery system might substitute and dominate the outcomes? Slaves still seek freedom, but some accommodate and are creatively adaptable to changing workplace conditions in the hope of being treated as a better grade of slave--and not incidentally on the track of becoming a freedman perhaps. Freedmen in turn tend to be clients of their former owners; as such they might be trusted with more foreman type roles in a quasi-capitalist, semi-industrialized workplace that is fundamentally worked by slaves instead of wage workers. The master is responsible for keeping them alive but as he is rich and his class has great influence, the master can generally deliver, scrounging the least bad foods and so on when the markets get very tight and legally freer artisans and peasants are starving.

Progress in reorganizing the work process would be slower than under pure capitalism, but perhaps fast enough to encourage more science and find discoveries and innovations useful and worth reorganizing the work process around yet again. Productivity goes up and this works out to enrich the master more, making them even more powerful and sucking more of the desperate poor into the slavery system.

Also providing infrastructure for more scientific philosophers.

4) I'm totally mystified by the electrification of blood slowing clotting. Is that something modern doctors and EMTs know all about nowadays?

If the update is saying a lot more I'm missing it. All that is already quite a lot of course! Better medicine means a stronger Classical world. If they can dramatically check the depredations of a big epidemic then events believed OTL to have tipped the balance toward Roman collapse in the west might be mitigated, on top of a basically larger and healthier populace. More Roman subjects living longer, more surviving childhood--they risk running into famine instead of disease being the major killer But more numbers and better morale might lengthen the period considered in retrospect the peak of Roman civilization and reduce the relative advantages enjoyed by the waves of invaders, holding them at bay or maybe even partial resurrection of Roman expansionism, into Germany, the Netherlands and the Baltic, or eastward into the Danube lands and northward.

In addition to more space and more population, this also buys more time for the unnoticed consequences of early scientific and technical discoveries to be considered and worked out in practice eventually.

Despite the spread of all this precocious discovery, the possibility that if proper capitalism as we know it cannot develop that some alternative basis of industrial progress might exist, and the nature of one salient of discovery tending to open up others (say, electricity leading to advances in chemistry that might enable the kind of metallurgy that enables either steam power or gunpowder weaponry a leg up) and even the prospect of a healthier if not much less hungry Empire serving as a general solvent and lubricant and power house, I suspect we must expect progress to run on a slower time scale. Say stuff that took 100 years over the course of the 18th or 19th century here takes 300 years. Even so with the OTL lifespan of the Roman Empire (in the west) being longer than that and the prospect that some of the changes we already see can buy it space, time and more man and brain power, might we see a complete Mediterranean centered empire surging north and east (maybe also south across the Sahara) that reaches say 1850 levels on the average? I mean by that maybe radiotelegraphy before wire telegraphy, maybe electric motors and dynamos before steam engines.

Back when I was trying to figure out how Cleopatra wins alt-Actium, one line of development for naval application of motors and dynamos I thought of but did not mention was the notion of using wind power to drive windmills instead of traditional sails, the mills driving a dynamo or three that drive electric motor powered screw propellers. Instead of OTL ship evolution where Europeans in the Atlantic learn to make sail arrangements that improved their options, they instead go to this?

Have you or anyone ever seen studies comparing the theoretical abilities of wind-power being diverted, mechanically or electrically, into screw propulsion and comparing that to what can be achieved merely by suitable arrangements of sail? Is an electrified wind-powered screw galley an inherently stupid and inefficient idea compared to suitable skill with arranging canvas tops, or can it be superior? If not superior across the board, competitive and perhaps advantageous in certain situations?

I particularly wonder what happens when a fairly mechanically efficient windmill equipped ship with fairly efficient dynamos and motors sails straight into the wind. Forward speed should actually increase the effective wind and thus power! On the other hand the force of the wind on the windmills will be pushing the ship backward. Can the mills gain enough power from the wind to drive forward despite the direct wind force? Being able to sail straight into the wind might be impressive! I imagine that some degree of tacking would be more efficient, but to turn on an enemy ship that has the windward gauge and drive straight for it...!

I'm thinking of later Romans having more ability on the Atlantic you see. I no longer think Cleopatra's regime has time to implement anything like this, but perhaps by 300 CE or so Romans are using windmill-screw ships and have radiotelegraphic communications and are sailing up and down the eastern Atlantic coast from Norway to West Africa.

As I understand it, the trouble with trading with West Africa is that the winds and currents bring one down to the south side of the bulge of western Africa readily enough, but then it is murder to try to sail back north against these same flows. A prop ship that can make headway straight into the wind, albeit slowly, might better be able to make the round trip.
 
This led me to read your latest passage more carefully.

I can't answer all your questions, comment on all your observations but I’ll try my best.



1) Antiseptics being adopted;…..


Yes, the adoption of basic hygiene will probably the most broadly revolutionary thing happening in the foreseeable future, although it won’t be the most fancy thing to be discovered. It will lead to a surge in the popularity Hygieia and her cult. And once her blessed water is introduced into the army, the legions superior logistics should help them utilize this advantage against the barbarian hordes.

2) Blood typing? This seems to be casually mentioned as though it were discovered quite some time before and is now a commonplace!

It is and it was. Basically Aeschrion needed a lot of human blood for his experiments. His best source of that is blood letting happening at the temple. Now, once he begins collection blood from different people in the same vessel, in some cases agglutination happens which citrate doesn’t protect against like coagulation. A proper investigation will send him on the right track. And once people learn of the existence of blood groups there will be a lot of science happening but also a lot of superstition. Even in our own timeline the Japanse invented the “Blood type personality theory” which is apparently still fairly common.

3. Citrus, Citrate, Vitamin etc.

Actually I just needed a reason to look into citrate, to stop coalgulation. I read a lot of stuff about the history of blood transfusion and coagulation for example

Erwin H Ackerknecht: Anticontagionism between 1821 and 1867.

Jean-Léonard-Marie Poiseuille (1928): “Récherches sur la force du coeur aortique”, Thése doctorale No. 166, Faculté de Médicine de Paris, Imprimerie Didot Le Jeune, 45 pp, 1828.

John Freedman: Transfusion Medicine: A History Transfusion History

And I found that Jean-Léonard-Marie Poiseuille (1797-1869) and several people following him did come up with the idea of using salts to keep blood liquid but none of them used sodium citrate in their experiments, despite it being readily available. The nice thing about sodium cirate is that it doesn’t kill you patients when you inject the citrate blood back into them or other people. Thus I was looking for a way to put people on the right track from the very beginning. I didn’t think that the electrolysis of blood actually affects its coagulation, nor would it have been necessary. That was just I nice surprise when I googled it. The vitamin angle I never even considered but it would make a good explanation why lemons can cure/prevent scurvy. I keep that in mind.


4. Slave and Worker Relations

Those things will be touched on but rather later. However this won’t mean that infrastructure and slavery won’t play a role early. Mainly slaves and prisoner will find themselves in the very unpleasant role of working as blood donor who also get intentionally infected to study disease and possible cures, as well as to become passive immunity incubators. Once you can transfer blood after all you can also transfer many different disease….

A nightmare scenario that was never fully explored in our timeline since mainstream ethics/relgion shunned such ideas before empirical medical science made its debut. Here however we have a society which sees having prisoner being raped by donkeys as wholesome family entertainment

5. March of Progress and Africa

The march of progress as you described will take a bit longer in certain areas, since the economics incentives are different. But it will also be accelerated in other fields due to the right amount of luck and funding. One hint a gave earlier is the knowledge of natural rubber. Without saying to much there is a reason that it is known Garamante resin. This is an actual separate “POD” that helps in the development of ballooning but will also have some additional consequences in the future. So the route/exploration of Africa might actually not all that concerned with coastal sailing as it might intuitively be seen.


6. Windmills, Dynamo and Screws

All pretty great stuff and ideas. I am not sure when we will reach the point when they are realistic. I read some of the very intense discussion on wire production/industry, metallurgy and the lack thereof taking place on this webside. That why I try to stick to pre-industrial stuff like early 19th, late 18th chemistry that could be sufficiently scaled in OTL before many of the contentious other requirements were developed.

For the next two centuries its mostly Rome expanding as OTL, lime lights, hygiene and medical revolutions spreading trough the empire, some fancy toys for wealthy patrons in form of (non-gunpowder) rockets, hydrogen balloons and some deeper understanding of matter confined to the big main universities and libraries. The industrial stuff is probably going to begin in the late third century, maybe even trough a surprise inspiration coming from China.
 
Cleopatra – The Queen of Enlightenment (III)
Cleopatra – The Queen of Enlightenment (III)



Life Changing Books and Intermingling Interludes


I am indebted to my father for living, but to my teacher for living well.”
Alexander the Great

It had only be a few days since their refugee party had arrived in Rome. Cleopatra, her father and a few trusted retainer. While she had heard tales about the mighty city of Rome, her first impression had been rather mixed. They were forced to sail the whole voyage incognito, not under the purple sails of royalty but in a rather inconspicuous ship, with white common sails. But the greatest humiliation came Cleopatra experienced was on a more personal level.

Mother of Rome, delight of Gods and men,
Dear Venus that beneath the gliding stars
Makest to teem the many-voyaged main
And fruitful lands- for all of living things
Through thee alone are evermore conceived,
Through thee are risen to visit the great sun-
Before thee, Goddess, and thy coming on,
Flee stormy wind and massy cloud away,

Although only just barely thirteen, she always saw herself as a well educated woman, but somehow it had escaped her notice that Rome, unlike Alexandria wasn’t a harbor town. Thus when their party arrived at the walled of seaport of Ostia, their doorway to Rome. She silently cursed herself for making such a stupid mistake. While she was told, and saw herself as a young beauty, Cleopatra Philopator she wasn’t quiet as vain as her accursed, treacherous sister. The last thing she had heard from her was a simple message. “Since you and your father cowardly abandoned Egypt to the rioting mobs” somehow omitting that he was her father as well, bitch “fleeing to your Roman benefactors the duty of ruling over our kingdom now falls on us. Should you and your father ever set food on our shores you will be immediate executed.” Okay, maybe she wasn’t recalling the message not entirely correct, it was a bit more flowery, more formal but she had thrown it away before even finishing it properly.

Properly didn’t write it anyway, she always relied on their priest, servants and the royal court staff for such things. If only her laziness would have prevented, her from her constant scheming and socializing, unfortunately she really loved that part of politics. Properly because the golden throne makes the perfect missing accessory for her royal bottom. She even had snorted a bit unprincesslike at that thought. But she quickly regained her composure and set her sight on her surroundings. The coast was littered with villas for the wealthy Roman patrician to escape the crowded and to enjoy a breath of fresh, sea cooled air. It reminded her a bit of the royal palace, although one would have to merge all the villas into one giant structure to even match it grandness. That restored a bit of the ride, that she lost, barfing it into the rough sea during their voyage.

For thee the daedal Earth bears scented flowers,
For thee waters of the unvexed deep
Smile, and the hollows of the serene sky
Glow with diffused radiance for thee!

The lighthouse, although a bit smaller then Alexandria’s still served its function well. It guided ships from all over the known world into the bay. The water was choppy with with so many oars churning back and forth, rocked by the river Tiber who finally found freedom in the open sea. A lovely exciting sight, even if the circumstanced behind their travel, their hazard escape were less then enjoyable. Both sides of the Tiber were crowded with docks. Cargo was were being unloaded from ships and transferred to wagon because the river was to shallow for sailing. And so, too, their “royal fleet” had to remain anchored at Ostia. Instead the crew moved their belongings to carts and donkeys. At first it was a pleasure to feel land again under once foot Cleo taught. Forrest, meadows, flowers all aligned along the way. An oasis in Egypt is as lovely but surrounded by desert, here thou all green everywhere.

For soon as comes the springtime face of day,
And procreant gales blow from the West unbarred,
First fowls of air, smit to the heart by thee,
Foretoken thy approach, O thou Divine,
And leap the wild herds round the happy fields
Or swim the bounding torrents. Thus amain,
Seized with the spell, all creatures follow thee
Whithersoever thou walkest forth to lead,
And thence through seas and mountains and swift streams,
Through leafy homes of birds and greening plains,
Kindling the lure of love in every breast,

There was however one major flaw in this little fantasy scenery of the wonderful, exotic foreign country, the great old river Tiber itself. At this time of the year it was perhaps only one meter deep flowing like brown oil, bringing from the city all types of disgusting things that float: bloody rags , onion, broken pieces of furniture and more. A stench permanent, omnipresent hovered in the air, a kind of smell she would never forget. The ugly filth, the Empire rather forget, yet is part of their very lifeblood as she would later write down. But there was a certain beauty to it, she thought as she watched a sewer stream flowing trough a meticulously crafted stone arch, pouring its dirty water into the river.

O'ermastered by the eternal wound of love-
And there, with eyes and full throat backward thrown,
Gazing, my Goddess, open-mouthed at thee,
Pastures on love his greedy sight, his breath
Hanging upon thy lips. Him thus reclined
Fill with thy holy body, round, above!
Pour from those lips soft syllables to win

Peace for the Romans, glorious Lady, peace!
For in a season troublous to the state
Neither may I attend this task of mine
With thought untroubled, nor mid such events
The illustrious scion of the Memmian house (1)

Fittingly on the bank directly above the sewer stood the Temple of Hercules Victor. Thus worshiper were forced to hold their noses while presenting their offerings.

567950783.jpg

Cloaca Maxima and the Temple of Hercules Victor


Whilst human kind throughout the lands lay miserably crushed
Before all eyes beneath Religion- who
Would show her head along the region skies,
Glowering on mortals with her hideous face-
A Greek it was who first opposing dared
Raise mortal eyes that terror to withstand,

Whom nor the fame of Gods nor lightning's stroke
Nor threatening thunder of the ominous sky
Abashed; but rather chafed to angry zest
His dauntless heart to be the first to rend
The crossbars at the gates of Nature old.
And thus his will and hardy wisdom won;
And forward thus he fared afar, beyond
The flaming ramparts of the world, until
He wandered the unmeasurable All.

Whence he to us, a conqueror, reports
What things can rise to being, what cannot,
And by what law to each its scope prescribed,
Its boundary stone that clings so deep in Time.
Wherefore Religion now is under foot,
And us his victory now exalts to heaven.
I know how hard it is in Latian verse
To tell the dark discoveries of the Greeks.


Sources

http://www.iep.utm.edu/lucretiu/#H1
Cleopatra VII: Daughter of the Nile, Egypt, 57 B.C. (The Royal Diaries)
by Kristiana Gregory
wikipedia (in general)
 
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The Fall of Aristotle and the Rise of the Minervaeum
The Fall of Aristotle and The Rise of the Minervaeum

"ipsa scientia potestas est/knowledge itself is power"
Julius Caesar (1)

A short history of the Minervaeum (I)

The first Roman libraries were private, and were constituted by the books that were seized by the glorious generals in the East campaigns, along with gold and jewels, sculptures and literate slaves. One knows that general Lucius Emilius Paulus, winner in the decisive battle of Pydna (168 b.C.), took as booty the books that constituted the library of the last Macedonian king, Perseus, soon to offer it to his sons, amongst whom was the famous Scipio the African. Sulla, on the other hand, seized in Athens the books of Aristotle acquired by Apelicon. Also Lucius Licinius Lucullus, during its conquests in Asia Minor, collected a great amount of books. The new owners of the libraries opened them with generosity to those who wished to consult them and Cicero, according to his own accounts, devoured the books of the library of Sulla.

Although already in the 2nd Century BC Latin books circulated, these first libraries consisted of Greek works, that spread through the Roman world enhancing the glory of Greece. It was Horace, talking about Polibius and the thousands of hostages who were carried to Rome after Pydna, wrote its famous sentence: 'Graecia capta ferum victorem cepit' ('overcome Greece, conquer a conqueror'). Also important were the conferences that Crates of Mallus, director of the library of Pergamum, held in Rome with remarkable success, to such an extent that the public libraries that were constructed later in Rome were following the example of the one in Pergamum.

Standing next to a temple the library consisted mainly of a large storage room for scrolls and a porch on which one might read, or from where one could take a walk in the gardens or from where works could be recited aloud to an audience. One of the most prominent and innovative speaker that could be heard in the park of the Mineravaeum was Marcus Vitruvius Pollio the author of De architectura (On Architecture).

19 BC, Minervaeum, Rome

“Architecture is a science arising out of many other sciences, and adorned with much and varied learning; by the help of which a judgment is formed of those works which are the result of other arts. Practice and theory are its parents. Practice is the frequent and continued contemplation of the mode of executing any given work, or of the mere operation of the hands, for the conversion of the material in the best and readiest way. Theory is the result of that reasoning which demonstrates and explains that the material wrought has been so converted as to answer the end proposed.

In architecture, as in other arts, two considerations must be constantly kept in view; namely, the intention, and the matter used to express that intention: but the intention is founded on a conviction that the matter wrought will fully suit the purpose; he, therefore, who is not familiar with both branches of the art, has no pretension to the title of the architect. An architect should be ingenious, and apt in the acquisition of knowledge. Deficient in either of these qualities, he cannot be a perfect master. He should be a good writer, a skilful draftsman, versed in geometry and optics, expert at figures, acquainted with history, informed on the principles of natural and moral philosophy, somewhat of a musician, not ignorant of the sciences both of law and physic,º nor of the motions, laws, and relations to each other, of the heavenly bodies.

By means of the first named acquirement, he is to commit to writing his observations and experience, in order to assist his memory. Drawing is employed in representing the forms of his designs. Geometry affords much aid to the architect: to it he owes the use of the right line and circle, the level and the square; whereby his delineations of buildings on plane surfaces are greatly facilitated. The science of optics enables him to introduce with judgment the requisite quantity of light, according to the aspect. Arithmetic estimates the cost, and aids in the measurement of the works; this, assisted by the laws of geometry, determines those abstruse questions, wherein the different proportions of some parts to others are involved. Unless acquainted with history, he will be unable to account for the use of many ornaments which he may have occasion to introduce…..” The audience was still waiting for him to continue, but Vitruvius had other. Plans, he asked one of the libraries domestic slaves to fetch him a bola (1).

A short history of the Minervaeum (II)

During his reign as dictator from 49-44 BC, Julius Caesar had a number of notable impacts on the city of Rome. Caesar wanted to enhance the city’s appearance after he realized how unimpressive Rome seemed in comparison to Alexandria, which was considered the greatest city of the Mediterranean. As a result, the Forum Julium was built to provide more space for lawcourts, and the Saepta Julia, situated on the Campus Martius, provided a large enclosure for voting. Caesar also ordered the construction of a new senate house after the previous one was used as Clodius’s funeral pyre in 52 BC. Additionally, he sought to divert the Tiber River away from Rome to prevent flooding and to add to the city’s area. He had also planned to build a grand temple of Mars, a theater that would rival Pompey’s, and a library that would rival Alexandria’s. The last project’s announcement speech actually provided the famous quote introducing the story.

Philosophical, historical and literary works were to be abounded in this new library, but so too would be other books, instructing the Romans to taking care of agriculture, the arts of war, the medicine or engineering and so on. The man to equip Rome with such great public library, a Minervaeum, dedicated to Rome’s great godess of wisdom and war was his friend Marcus Terentius Varro. Caesar never saw this project realized due to his premature death. Caesar’s impact on the city of Rome continued even after his death when, in his will, he stipulated that his villa, the gardens surrounding it, and his art gallery all be made the base for his great public library. He also distributed his wealth to cause, the enormous sum of. Even after his death his last will ensured that Rome became a cultural and educational center of the Mediterranean world by attracting intellectuals, doctors, and lawyers to the city.

balls2.gif


Galileo / Vitruvius Thought Experiment illustrated

19 BC, Minervaeum, Rome

Vitruvius carefully balanced the barbarian weapon in his hands while at the same time carefully weighting his next words in his mind.

The Bola

“The bola is a throwing weapon used in many cultures, mostly by nomads and primtive tribal people. I first encountered it during my service for the late Ceasar. It consists of weights of various sizes connected together by cord. The weights are made of different materials held in pouches or tied to their cords directly. There are at least three such weights, but there are many different bola designs having as many as 6 or 8 weights. In some designs, the weights are of different sizes, others use weights of equal size, and there are variations in between. The same is true for the cords holding the weights. Sometimes the distance between each weight and the place where the cords come together is equal, other times not.

The bola is thrown by grasping one of the weights in some designs, while in others, the nexus where the cords come together is held. The whole assembly is often swung over the head in a horizontal plane and released. As they fly through the air, the weights will separate giving the bola a configuration something like a flattened and open net. On striking a target, usually the legs of an animal, the weights will cause the cords to wrap themselves about it tripping the animal. It is a weapon of perfect simplicity on the surface, but once have a closer look it offers quite a hidden depth.”

A Step to the Fall

With quite some satisfaction Vitruvius observed his audience reaction. It wasn’t always easy to get more their attention. But he was sure that he got at least most on them hooked. If necessary he could always pepper this lectures with some exploits in the military campaigns he participated in. Hot blooded young men mostly cared, about three things spilling their enemies blood, breaking maiden hearts and getting smashing drunk. Nevertheless, sometimes he managed to sneak a more complex thought in there: “Once I encountered this little thing I was certain that I could improve it easily. However once I found the time to do so I encountered a fascinating riddle. But let us start at the beginning. The principle behind the weapon is throwing a stone. We all have the almost innate ability to do so. To understand that things, after being thrown fall down. We further assume that heavy things like iron, or stone fall faster than lighter objects like feathers or wood. Nevertheless, I decided to consult Aristotle’s work, and what he knew about things falling. It was quite enlightening. Aristotle put forward his ideas on why objects fall to Earth, and also on motion in general, in works written around 330 BC in his book Physics.

To summarize Aristotle holds the view that there are two kinds of motion for inanimate matter, natural and unnatural. Unnatural (or “violent”) motion is when something is being pushed, and in this case the speed of motion is proportional to the force of the push. He probably deduced this from watching oxcarts and boats. However such unnatural motions are short lived (since continual application of force is required to maintain motion) and the "natural desire" of the stone to return to the Earth takes over and then natural motion returns the stone to Earth's center.

For the natural motion of heavy objects falling to earth, Aristotle asserted that the speed of fall was proportional to the weight, and inversely proportional to the density of the medium the body was falling through. He did also mention that there was some acceleration, as the body approached more closely its own element, its weight increased and it speeds up. However, these remarks in Aristotle work are very brief and vague, and certainly not quantitative.


Now, Artistotle was not the only one putting his thoughts into the question of gravity. One of his students Strato of Lampsacus, already lay the groundwork for our lesson today. He devoted himself especially to the study of natural science, and build upon the naturalistic elements in Aristotle's thought. In fact became renown as Strato Physicus. As I do now Strato emphasized the need for exact research. There is much to learn from him but we will now focus one of his observation of gravity.

In his book De Motus/On Movements he points out that – if someone lifts a heavy stone or other heavy body about a finger’s breadth from the ground and lets it go the impact with which it strikes the ground will hardly be noticeable, but if he lifts it a hundred feet or more before letting it go it will make a strong impact there is no other cause of the impact (except the stone’s velocity), for its weight does not increase, nor does the moving body grow larger…- Certainly something to keep in mind when designing, operating or commanding siege weapon.”

Once again Vitruvius mustered his audience. Both scenario’s were equally likely. Either you were very smart enough for a patron to send you here or you were a member of Rome’s elite already. Sadly not much of Ceasar’s idea of a public institution of learning had remained (3).


"But there is even more to discover about the relation between motion and weight. If quicksilver be placed in a vessel, and a stone of a hundred pounds weight be placed on it, it will swim at the top, and will, notwithstanding its weight, be incapable of pressing the liquid so as to break or separate it. If this be taken out, and only a single scruple of gold be put in, that will not swim, but immediately descend to the bottom. This is a proof that the gravity of a body does not depend on its weight, but on its nature. So if it isn’t simply the weight that decides the attraction of material to our earth there should be quiet some room for improvements.

And this is where I encountered the greatest riddle so far. Imagine a bola with two balls, one light and one heavier than the other one. Now they are, as is this specimen connected to each other by a string. Now throw such a bola from sufficient height or with sufficient force. If we assume heavier objects do indeed fall faster than lighter ones (and conversely, lighter objects fall slower), the string will soon pull taut as the lighter object retards the fall of the heavier object. But the system considered as a whole is heavier than the heavy object alone, and therefore should fall faster.

At some point our logic is fundamentally flawed. As you see even one of the greatest philosopher didn’t adhere to this important piece of advise. - Wherefore the mere practical architect nor the emperical philosopher is able to assign sufficient reasons for the forms and ideas he adopts, the theoretician fails grasping the shadow instead of the substance. Only if one pays respect to pure reason and practical experience one can build lasting beauty in stone as well as thought (4) -."

Source and Notes

(1) The sentence was actually first written by Francis Bacon in his book Meditationes Sacrae (1597).

(2) Vitruvius was a military engineer (praefectus fabrum), or a praefect architectus armamentarius of the apparitor status group (a branch of the Roman civil service). Likely born a free Roman citizen, by his own account, Vitruvius served the Roman army under Caesar. As an army engineer he specialized in the construction of ballista and scorpio artillery war machines for sieges. It is speculated that Vitruvius served with Caesar's chief engineer Lucius Cornelius Balbus. The locations where he served can be reconstructed from, for example, descriptions of the building methods of various "foreign tribes". Although he describes places throughout De Architectura, he does not say he was present. His service likely included north Africa, Hispania, Gaul (including Aquitaine) and Pontus. In this timeline it is a fact that he met some members of a foreign tribe that used bolas in one of these campaigns, the exact details will, for now, however remain in the air.

(3) In our timeline Ceasar wrote a fairly similarly civiv minded testament. Caesar left his gardens as a park to the city of Rome, and gave every inhabitant of the city a large amount of money.

(4) Everything Vitruvius says is taken from the actual works of the philosopher mentioned. The observation of the indepence of weight and gravity was documented by himself in his own book De Architectura. The only new additon is the "bola thought experiment". That one is taken from Galileo.

Caesar As Dictator: His Impact on the City of Rome by Steven Fiferticle
http://www.roman-empire.net/articles/article-005.html
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/history/PrintHT/Gravitation.html
https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/v/vitruvius.html
wikipedia (several)
http://personal.lse.ac.uk/robert49/ebooks/PhilSciAdventures/lecture17.html
http://galileoandeinstein.physics.virginia.edu/lectures/gal_accn96.htm
http://www.moellerhaus.com/Roman Emperors/Caesar3.html#inheritance

People

Crates of Mallus (2nd century BC)
Marcus Vitruvius Pollio (79 BC, c. 11 BC) - In this timeline.
Marcus Terentius Varro (116 BC – 27 BC)
Gaius Octavius/Augustus (63 BC – 14 AD)
Gaius Julius Caesar (100 BC – 44 BC)
Strato of Lampsacus (335 BC – 269 AC)
 
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The bola thought experiment is pretty conclusive. Are there any historical speculations on why it is that a thousand years and more of Aristotelians passed without anyone thinking this one up until Galileo came along? Was it a matter of the "experiment" being an obvious thing to "try" after empirical challenges to Aristotelian predictions are first stumbled upon, such as Galileo's famous experiments rolling balls down slopes?

The pure thought experiment requires no such work as setting up a real experiment does--but perhaps for that very reason no one notices the conceptual flaw until they think carefully about doing something with real objects. Thus the general notion that philosophers did not dirty their hands might account for it?

It aha been a while, but IIRC your ATL philosophers do include dirty-handed crew among them.
 
Cleopatra – The Queen of Enlightenment (IV)
Cleopatra – The Queen of Enlightenment (IV)


When in Rome do as the….Greeks?

The rest of their travel to Rome, was thankfully rather uneventful. Now, finally they journey came to and end, for now at least. While Cleo was helping to adjusting his new roman garment a so called “toga” she for the first time she fully realized their situation. So far everything had been one long, exciting if not always pleasant adventure. But now they were in the lions den.

Her father had promised Egypt’s riches to a bunch of Roman moneylender in order to buy Rome “friendship”. Rome in that case was currently represented by the fearsome triumvirate of Pompey, Ceasar and Crassus.

Soon they would met the first of these man, Pompey. Apparently he was known as the “Bearded Executioner”. Just three month ago, he rid the Mediterranean of pirates – 846- who had been plundering the vessels on trade routes. She would have to remember to thank him for their safe voyage later. She almost caught herself blasphemously thinking that he had certainly done a better job than Neptune. Once again these frightening new thoughts were creeping up upon her mind, Questions her father, the gods , everything. She wondered if it was part of growing up, as one of her handmaids had kindly suggested, or Adbraxus constantly forcing her to reexamine the wisdom of the ancients.

For now she was however willing and able to suppress these dark thoughts and enjoy the hospitality of their host, Tullius Atticus. He was one of the moneylenders, a stout bald man and pleasant enough so far. He appeared a bit bloated, a victim of gluttony or more kindly spoken a devout worshiper of Dionysus. The tips of his fingers were stained purple from eating grapes, while he listened to a poet.

The reader had a deep, sonorous voice that was actually quite pleasant to listen to, although most of the actual tales were about superficial things. Cleo’s father was, quite unsurprisingly, becoming a good drinking buddy with him. For all the flaws she began recognizing in him, her father did have a knack for making friends with people,……... just not his own.
Atticus villa was near the stinking Tiber river, but aside from this drawback it was befitting of their social status. The rooms and the courtyard were lovely a lovely sight. Flowering fruit trees, fish ponds and fountains all well maintained. An atrium with an opening to the sky brought light into the entryway. A pool in the center of the courtyard was catching the rain which meant fresh water for cats, bird and puppies roaming around the building. The bath was similar to their old home, complete with hot water heated by an underground fire.

Before all eyes beneath Religion- who
Would show her head along the region skies,
Glowering on mortals with her hideous face-
A Greek it was who first opposing dared
Raise mortal eyes that terror to withstand,
Whom nor the fame of Gods nor lightning's stroke
Nor threatening thunder of the ominous sky
Abashed; but rather chafed to angry zest
His dauntless heart to be the first to rend
The crossbars at the gates of Nature old.

And thus his will and hardy wisdom won;
And forward thus he fared afar, beyond
The flaming ramparts of the world, until
He wandered the unmeasurable All.
Whence he to us, a conqueror, reports
What things can rise to being, what cannot,
And by what law to each its scope prescribed,
Its boundary stone that clings so deep in Time.
Wherefore Religion now is under foot,
And us his victory now exalts to heaven.

It was the in their third night at Atticus villa that they actually met one of the triumvir. Cleo wore a white toga with a sachet of myyrh tucked next to skin. Also some elaborate make up, but not too much or to garish as too look like a courtesan. Something that happened to her beloved older Berenice. A good heart, good looks but not the smartest head. Cleo sincerely hoped that the treacherous bitch Tryphaena hadn’t done anything to her. She was quite the jealous type after all. But now wasn’t the time for worries but for confident self presentation.

wgQxL1R.jpg

"To Gaius Memmius, son of Gaius Memmius, grandson of Sulla Felix (paid for this monument) from his own funds/C∙MEMMIO∙C∙F∙SULLAE∙FELICIS∙N∙EX∙PEQUNI(A)." Ephesus



A Toast to Reason

The banquet hall was a grand room that opened on to the gardens. Couches had been arranged around round tables low tables so that the host and his guests could recline together while eating. The pillows and covers had the same fabrics that had home. This was properly because both Rome and Alexandria.

Soon serving girls appeared with simmering dish plates, full of tasty delicacies like roasted songbirds and the juiciest grapes and boiled squall eggs. After the dinner was finished suddenly soldiers marches into the room, standing guard or blowing their ceremonial trumpets. It was the quite pompous marital entrance of Pompey. After the signal had been sounded, the General marched in, wearing a red cloak draped over his back in the same style as Alexander the Great. One he surveyed the room, he clapped his hands “Well then” and the real party started. With wine, slave girls dancing and pygmies acrobats. Now father really was in his element socializing. To Cleo’s embarrassment he even pulled out his, beloved old trusty flute that had earned him. Why of all things, she thought, did he manage to rescue this curse, old thing.

In contrast Cleo tried to remain as stoic, calm and dignified as she could. Holding some boring, but harmless conversations, mainly with the few other female guests. Only when she overheard one of Pompey’s friends, a certain Gaius Memmius. He was enthusiastically, encouraged by the alcohol, trying to persuade the other guest of the virtues of Epicurus. He also, even more vehemently insulted the Latin language, as piggish, coarse and the brute, grunting of mere soldiers. Greek, now that was the epitome of civilization. While Cleo agreed with both assessments, he was careful enough only to voice her interest in Epicurus. That name got her attention, the last philosopher Abdbraxus wanted her to study. She became quite angry at herself for almost forgetting about the request.

Now Memmius was enthused by the idea of talking about this subject to a little foreign princess, as his own audience had been about his ramblings. However he soon changed his tone and expression after Cleo revealed her in depth knowledge about Greek philosophy. Instead of looking for an excuse to leave the party she now was really upset once she learned that the (male) adult only part of the evening began.

Still, she had gotten quite a bit information out of Memmius. Apparently there were three authorities in Rome on the topic of Epicurean philosophy. The first one was Cicero, who as Memmius phrased it had at least something to say “about every topic imaginable, and sometimes even on the unimaginable, if asked or not” Then there was Philodemus of Gadara. He studied under the Epicurean Phoenician philosopher, Zeno of Sidon, the head (scholarch) of the Epicurean school, in Athens, before settling in Rome about 80 BC, thirty years ago. However it was unlike that he would ever entertain the idea of talking with a little girl about such even or especially if she could hold her own. And it seemed that he was spending more and more time in his home in Herculaneum, bothering little with the matters of the capitol.

That left the most promising prospect for last. Memmius was in fact the patron of a most remarkable epicurean scholar and natural philosopher, Lucretius, in his own words. Apparently Lucretius just happened to be writing and constantly revising his magnum opus De Rerum Natura (On the Nature of Things). An ambitious title if nothing else. Once she went to bed she could barely sleep that night. To a certain extend this was thanks to the noises of debauchery that echoed through the villa, but also because she couldn’t await the slave who Memmius promised would deliver her his newest copy of the this, allegedly, magnificent work.

Notes

The OTL story of Gaius Memmius the Elder

He died circa 49 BC, incorrectly called Gemellus, "The Twin"), Roman orator and poet, tribune of the people (66 BC), patron of Lucretius and acquaintance of Catullus. At first he was a strong supporter of Pompey, he quarrelled with him, and went over to Caesar, whom he had previously attacked. In 54, as candidate for the consulship, he lost Caesar's support by revealing a scandalous transaction in which he and his fellow candidate had been implicated.
Being subsequently condamned for illegal practices at the election, he withdrew to Athens, and afterwards, to Mytilene. According to Ovid he was the author of erotic poems. He possessed considerable oratorical abilities, but his contempt for Latin letters and preference for Greek models impaired his efficiency as an advocate. In this timeline things work out a bit better for him.


Sources

Cleopatra VII: Daughter of the Nile, Egypt, 57 B.C. (The Royal Diaries) by Kristiana Gregory
wikipedia (in general)
De Rerum Natura – Lucretius
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.02.0131

People

Philodemus of Gadara (BC 110 – 35 BC)
Marcus Tullius Cicero (106 BC – 43 BC)
Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus (106 BC– 48 BC)
Ptolemy XII Auletes (117 BC –51 BC)
Abdaraxus (unkown)
Titus Lucretius Carus (99 BC– 55 BC in OTL) but (99 BC– c. 25 BC in this timeline)
Gaius Memmius (??? - 49 BCE) (Tribuni Plebis/Tribune of the Plebs 66 BCE)
 
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The pure thought experiment requires no such work as setting up a real experiment does--but perhaps for that very reason no one notices the conceptual flaw until they think carefully about doing something with real objects. Thus the general notion that philosophers did not dirty their hands might account for it?

It aha been a while, but IIRC your ATL philosophers do include dirty-handed crew among them.

It is pretty odd but on the other hand the the concept of a spherial earth is rather easy to proof but as far as I could find the greeks were the only ones who accumulated enough "scientific" proof to actually conviced themselves and others of this fact.

As for the hands on approach, yep the great philosopher in this timline wil indeed be a lot more dirty and "materialistic" to a certain degree.
 
The Art of Rejuvenation (II)
The Art of Rejuvenation (II)


Four Elements, Four Humors, Four Blood Types?

Humorism, or humoralism, was a system of medicine detailing the makeup and workings of the human body, adopted by Ancient Greek and Roman physicians and philosophers, positing that an excess or deficiency of any of four distinct bodily fluids in a persons - known as humors or humour - directly influences their temperament and health. The concept of four humors may have origins in Ancient Egyptian medicine or Mesopotamia, though it was not systematized until ancient Greek thinkers around 400 BC directly linked it with the popular theory of the four elements: earth, fire, water and air. Hippocrates is the one usually credited with applying this idea to medicine. One of the treatises attributed to Hippocrates, On the Nature of Man, describes the theory as follows:

The Human body contains blood (haima), phlegm (phlegma), kitrini chole (yellow bile), black bile (melaina chole). These are the things that make up its constitution and cause its pains and health. Health is primarily that state in which these constituent substances are in the correct proportion to each other, both in strength and quantity, and are well mixed. Pain occurs when one of the substances presents either a deficiency or an excess, or is separated in the body and not mixed with others.”

Although the theory of the four humors does appear in some Hippocratic texts, some Hippocratic writers only accepted the existence of two humors, while some even refrained from discussing the humoral theory at all. One of the people somewhat skeptical about the theory of four humor was Asclepiades of Bithynia. Instead, as mentioned earlier, he attempted to build a new theory of disease, and founded his medical practice on a modification of the atomic or corpuscular theory, according to which disease results from an irregular or inharmonious motion of the corpuscles of the body. His ideas were likely partly derived from the atomic theories of Democritus and Epicurus. All morbid action was reduced to the obstruction of pores and irregular distribution of atoms.

So it is not surprising that when Gaius Memmius made his famous public demonstration of splitting the element water into its corpuscles. Asclepiades got the inspiration to do the same with bodily fluids, to show that they were simple arrangements of atoms as well, strengthening his school's position. Now there were some problems with recreating the experiment, originally devised by Abdaraxus. The biggest one was the clotting and decay of blood. However this wasn’t an insurmountable problem, not even really a problem depending what exactly he wanted to study.


Blood Sedimentation and the 2 or 4 Humors

If blood is left alone for a few hours in a transparent vessel it separates into it different humors. At least that was what it looked like. Hippocrates and other observers correctly noted that when blood from a healthy person clotted, this clot expressed a second humor, clear bile. Blood from a diseased person, however expressed two extra humors, dark bile (the packed red cells at the bottom) and phlegm (the leukocytes on top).The division of a clot into these two extra humors was, of course a reflection of the accelerated sedimentation of of diseased blood permitting time for separation of a buffy coat before clotting was complete. The “phlemn” was not necessary increased in disease, as the Greeks presumed, but merely more readily seen. (1)

Here the idea was to simply wait, extract the different layer and then atomize (via electrolysis) the different humors.


The Defiberated Blood Option

The other option was based on observations made by Aristotle in his The History of Animals:

The ines (or fibrous connective tissue) are a something intermediate between sinew and vein. Some of them are supplied with fluid, the lymph; and they pass from sinew to vein and from vein to sinew. There is another kind of ines or fibre that is found in blood, but not in the blood of all animals alike. If this fibre be left in the blood, the blood will coagulate; if it be removed or extracted, the blood is found to be incapable of coagulation.

In another of his works he remarks that the blood in certain diseased conditions will not coagulate. This is known to be the case in cholera, certain fevers, asphyxia, etc.; and the fact was probably obtained from Hippocrates. Although Aristotle speaks here of entire absence of coagulation in the blood of the deer and the roe, in the " History of Animals " he admits an imperfect coagulation, for he says, " so that their blood does not coagulate like that of other animals."

The animals named are commonly hunted, and it was probably after they had been hunted to death that he examined them. Now, it is generally admitted that coagulation under such circumstances is imperfect and even uncommon. The important thing to take away for Asclepiades of Bithynia and his students was that the defiberation process should allow for the electrolysis of blood in its most natural state, with minimal decay.

The Unexpected Discovery

At first it seemed that everything would go as expected. The fluid was mainly made up of water and a bit of salt. Behaving not much different from regular water. Thing might have ended here, satisfying the groups curiosity. If it was not for one odd little phenomenon. In order to thoroughly investigate, they gathered quite a lot of blood. This was necessary since not all blood was quite as easily defiberated. So they quite often mixed successfully purified blood samples together. In some cases this worked fine. In others however they noticed the agglutination of the blood. In short if incompatible bloody groups were mixed together they clumped together regardless of the presence of fibirin.

His pupil Themison of Laodicea who was less wedded to Asclepiades ideas recognized that this could be the base for an entirely new diagnostic tool. Despite his mentor's initial reservations he theorized that maybe the incompatible blood samples maybe were corresponding to the individual composition of the four humors. To him it didn’t matter if these humors themselves were made of atoms. They still were worth studying on their own.

Notes

(1) Robert (Robin) Sanno Fåhræus (1921), a Swedish physician who devised the erythrocyte sedimentation rate, suggested that the four humours were based upon the observation of blood clotting in a transparent container. When blood is drawn in a glass container and left undisturbed for about an hour, four different layers can be seen. A dark clot forms at the bottom (the "black bile"). Above the clot is a layer of red blood cells (the "blood"). Above this is a whitish layer of white blood cells (the "phlegm"). The top layer is clear yellow serum (the "yellow bile").

Source

Fathers of Biology by Charles McRae, M.A., F.L.S.
Oxford Percival & Co. King Street, Covent Garden London 1890
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/agglutination
The History of Animals by Aristotle (350 B.C.E)

By Aristotle

Written 350 B.C.E

People

Asclepiades of Bithynia (129 – 40 BC)
Abdaraxus
Themison of Laodicea (1st century BC)
 
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For anybody wondering. The Art of Rejuvenation storyline is slightly modified after I found out about Aristotle's work on blood clotting.
 
Cleopatra – The Queen of Enlightenment (V)
Cleopatra – The Queen of Enlightenment (V)


Family Values

“I Cleopatra, want to be, and should be queen”, thought Cleo lying in their hosts garden. A copy of De Rerum Natura spread out besides her in the grass. A most magnificent present, worthy of a queen. Just a scroll full of scribblings but yet worth more than a pile of gold. “I have to be queen” this may seem an odd confession, from a little princess, living in her Roman exile but she couldn’t help it. She was convinced that her thoughts were perfectly logical and correct. Father had six living children, by his two wives long dead. Cleo had no memory of her mother for she was quite small when her mother died.

Auletes’ daughter’s are Tryphaene, Berenice IV, herself Cleopatra VII, and little Arisoe IV. His sons were just babies, Ptolemy XIII and Ptolemy Ptolemy XIV. Of all her siblings she was the only who could speak the language of their native Egyptian people. She spoke the languages of their forefathers the mighty Macedonian and even the foreign tongues of the Jews and Ethiopians.

Father only spoke Greek as well as the language of music and power. Those at least he knew well. His Latin, was still rather pitiful, although it was the coarse language of Barbarians. Their obsession with war and fighting reflecting itself in grunting speech. It was the language of Pompey, a man as father liked to say, who “suck to long on the tits of Mars”. However together they had managed to learn enough Latin to get by. In fact, she thought smugly her Latin was pretty short of being fluent. Her father was especially fond of one Roman saying “In Vino Vertias”. Cleo doubted that one a bit although its seemed that at least Memmius held the promise he made to in his near drunken euphoria.

For reasons unknown to herself, the gods have gifted her with learning tongues. Just from visiting the agora and fishing villages. She also had learned the knowledge of the ancients thinker gathered in the Library of the Mouseium. The gift of befriending people will make her a better queen than the treacherous Tryphaena could ever be. Even if she had waited her time, her disdain for the Jews, Medes, the envy of her fathers power, her paranoia all this would have one day consumed her anyway. It was her Cleopatra, incarnation of Isis the merciful that would rule her people with empathy and justice.

Her gifts Cleo thought, would help her do better than Berenice as well. She loved her sister and worried deeply about her, but she couldn’t see her as a good regent. Afraid to visit the streets, to venture outside their royal palace. Afraid of the ugliness of the plebs, of the world. A queen must not be afraid of the outside. This described her, for certain! After all she was the one father chose to accompany him to Rome. And there was Arisoe, her nine year old sister, cute but spoiled and already showing the same mean streak as Tryphaena. Once they returned Cleo would be queen, become the pharaoh, a living goddess?

Only after her father’s natural! death of course. She was a good daughter after all. What a lovely summer day, the sun shining in her face, tickling her with her rays yet such heavy thoughts clouded er mind. But if Lucretius and Epicurus were right, and she no longer doubted that, there is no fate, the gods are far away and uncaring so the only reason, the only justification for her right to rule were her virtues and might.

I fear perhaps thou deemest that we fare
An impious road to realms of thought profane;
But 'tis that same religion oftener far
Hath bred the foul impieties of men:
As once at Aulis, the elected chiefs,
Foremost of heroes, Danaan counsellors,
Defiled Diana's altar, virgin queen,
With Agamemnon's daughter, foully slain.
She felt the chaplet round her maiden locks
And fillets, fluttering down on either cheek,
And at the altar marked her grieving sire,
The priests beside him who concealed the knife,
And all the folk in tears at sight of her.

iphigenia-Roman.JPG


With a dumb terror and a sinking knee
She dropped; nor might avail her now that first
'Twas she who gave the king a father's name.
They raised her up, they bore the trembling girl
On to the altar- hither led not now
With solemn rites and hymeneal choir,
But sinless woman, sinfully foredone,
A parent felled her on her bridal day,
Making his child a sacrificial beast
To give the ships auspicious winds for Troy:
Such are the crimes to which Religion leads.

(De Rerum Natura - Lucretius)


Three years ago the divine Neo-Dysonisos “bought” a friendship with with Rome. He borrowed six thousand talents of silver from their kingdom to pay Julius Caesar and Pompey so that Rome and Egypt would be allies. Caesar was unfortunately absent waging a, as far as she heard, successful campaign in in the North, beyond the Alps against the rebellious tribes of Gallium. To bad she probably wouldn’t met him any time soon.

Her first impression of Pompey hadn’t changed. His nickname the “Bearded Executioner” was well earned. In just three month, he had rid the Mediterranean of pirates – 846 – who had been plundering vessels on the trade routes. A fearless man who also captured Jerusalem a few years ago, leaving Roman soldiers in charge. A fate Cleo thought thought they had to be wary of as well. After all her fathers debts had increased manifold to sixteen thousand talents. Cleo tried to talk with him in the few hours they were alone but so far he seemed to be unwilling to discuss such complex matters with her. The closes peak she got into his mind, his future plans was when he talked about his favorite subjects. Tales from his 21 years of reign, seemingly mostly consisting of endless banquets and festival. Here and there a few glimpses, all too rare hidden insights into his role as a sharp political operator, as a cunning survivor. Even more fruitless was her attempt to talks about her own thoughts, and feelings, about Epicurus and the nature of man and the world. On this ear he truly was deaf it seemed.

Thus she was left with Epicurus for advice and guidance. Thankfully Memmius had provided her with additional reading material. This could have been a maneuver to increase his standing with Pompey but the letter explaining the matter made clear that he had an even more selfish reason. He really, really enjoyed the opportunity to have found a soulmate, who both as interested in Greek language and Epicurean philosophy as he was, capable of holding a deep conservation even at her young age.

While she might deny it, Cleo wasn’t immune to flattery. The trust he had shown her, motivated her greatly into devouring all the reading material she got. Her father already had already begun to fondly call her his little bookworm. He might not care much to talk about these highly philosophical things himself, but he encouraged his favorite daughter’s enthusiasm for anything besides politics. The Gods knew how unpleasant these things could end. He’d rather have her play around in Adbraxus workshop again, plotting to overthrow the laws of nature, than his him. He chuckled a bit, and order one of the servant to pour some undiluted wine into his coup. There was a good reason he worshiped Dionysus. The keys to surviving the fucked up family politics as an Olympian or as a “Human” God was wine, more wine and music. Not the advise his daughter should or even wanted to hear form him. Who knew, in all this years on earth he had come to one conclusion. If the gods wanted man to think clearly why did they constantly turn water into poison?

A Long Rocky Road Ahead

If her father wasn’t willing to give a useful advice Epicurus did so freely and with joy in his “The Principal Doctrines/ Sovran Maxims”:

1. A blessed and indestructible being has no trouble himself and brings no trouble upon any other being; so he is free from anger and partiality, for all such things imply weakness.

2. Death is nothing to us; for that which has been dissolved into its elements experiences no sensations, and that which has no sensation is nothing to us.

3. The magnitude of pleasure reaches its limit in the removal of all pain. When such pleasure is present, so long as it is uninterrupted, there is no pain either of body or of mind or of both together.

4. Continuous bodily pain does not last long; instead, pain, if extreme, is present a very short time, and even that degree of pain which slightly exceeds bodily pleasure does not last for many days at once. Diseases of long duration allow an excess of bodily pleasure over pain.

5. It is impossible to live a pleasant life without living wisely and honorably and justly, and it is impossible to live wisely and honorably and justly without living pleasantly. Whenever any one of these is lacking, when, for instance, the man is not able to live wisely, though he lives honorably and justly, it is impossible for him to live a pleasant life.

6. In order to obtain protection from other men, any means for attaining this end is a natural good.

7. Some men want fame and status, thinking that they would thus make themselves secure against other men. If the life of such men really were secure, they have attained a natural good; if, however, it is insecure, they have not attained the end which by nature's own prompting they originally sought.

8. No pleasure is a bad thing in itself, but the things which produce certain pleasures entail disturbances many times greater than the pleasures themselves.

9. If every pleasure had been capable of accumulation, not only over time but also over the entire body or at least over the principal parts of our nature, then pleasures would never differ from one another.

10. If the things that produce the pleasures of profligate men really freed them from fears of the mind concerning celestial and atmospheric phenomena, the fear of death, and the fear of pain; if, further, they taught them to limit their desires, we should never have any fault to find with such persons, for they would then be filled with pleasures from every source and would never have pain of body or mind, which is what is bad.

11. If we had never been troubled by celestial and atmospheric phenomena, nor by fears about death, nor by our ignorance of the limits of pains and desires, we should have had no need of natural science.

12. It is impossible for someone to dispel his fears about the most important matters if he doesn't know the nature of the universe but still gives some credence to myths. So without the study of nature there is no enjoyment of pure pleasure.

13. There is no advantage to obtaining protection from other men so long as we are alarmed by events above or below the earth or in general by whatever happens in the boundless universe.

14. Protection from other men, secured to some extent by the power to expel and by material prosperity, in its purest form comes from a quiet life withdrawn from the multitude.

15. The wealth required by nature is limited and is easy to procure; but the wealth required by vain ideals extends to infinity.

16. Chance seldom interferes with the wise man; his greatest and highest interests have been, are, and will be, directed by reason throughout his whole life.

18. Bodily pleasure does not increase when the pain of want has been removed; after that it only admits of variation. The limit of mental pleasure, however, is reached when we reflect on these bodily pleasures and their related emotions, which used to cause the mind the greatest alarms.

20. The flesh receives as unlimited the limits of pleasure; and to provide it requires unlimited time. But the mind, intellectually grasping what the end and limit of the flesh is, and banishing the terrors of the future, procures a complete and perfect life, and we have no longer any need of unlimited time. Nevertheless the mind does not shun pleasure, and even when circumstances make death imminent, the mind does not lack enjoyment of the best life.

21. He who understands the limits of life knows that it is easy to obtain that which removes the pain of want and makes the whole of life complete and perfect. Thus he has no longer any need of things which involve struggle.

Thus the path to happiness was clear,…. in theory at least. Cleo could believe that natural philosophy might one day, maybe even in her lifetime disperse many superstitions, but overcoming fears and desires only with reason. She wasn’t sure she ever could do that. In fact she doubted it was really possible, a good goal yes but an attainable one, no. How would such a man even look like?

HeraclesJPG.png


Notes

Epicurus had more principles then written down here. However I believe the combination of these specific ones provides us with the best, concise narrative of Cleo's thoughts about them.

Sources

Cleopatra VII: Daughter of the Nile, Egypt, 57 B.C. (The Royal Diaries) by Kristiana Gregory
http://www.epicurus.net/en/principal.html
http://www.cornellcollege.edu/classical_studies/lit/tragedyFYSsch.shtml
http://balkhandshambhala.blogspot.de/2016_02_01_archive.html

People
Cleopatra VII Philopator (69 BCE – 30 BCE)
Ptolemy XII Auletes (117 BCE –51 BCE)
Abdaraxus (unkown)
Gaius Memmius (??? - 49 BCE) (Tribuni Plebis/Tribune of the Plebs 66 BCE)
 
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Alcsentre Calanice

Gone Fishin'
I regret that I was dubious about the possibilty of what you describe in your TL. Some questions though:

Frogs were prepared by fastening brass hooks in their spinal cord.

Why does he use frogs? Why does he fastens brassk hooks in their spinal cord? And why does he put the frogs on a silver box? Did he have enough money for a box of silver after all? I mean it's possible that this happens, but it seems to be quite overstretching luck to have this happen in a row to one person.

The lighthouse, although a bit smaller then Alexandria’s still served its function well. It guided ships from all over the known world into the bay.

A lighthouse in Rome in Caesar's time? I thought that the lighthouse of Ostia was build only under Claudius.

For anybody wondering. The Art of Rejuvenation storyline is slightly modified after I found out about Aristotle's work on blood clotting.

How much are you reading to discover all these details and quotations? Did you read the full works of Aristotle?

On a side note: Did the ancients really think that Pneuma had something to do with our neural system and lodestones?
 
(1) I regret that I was dubious about the possibilty of what you describe in your TL.

Some questions though:

(2) Why does he use frogs? Why does he fastens brassk hooks in their spinal cord? And why does he put the frogs on a silver box? Did he have enough money for a box of silver after all? I mean it's possible that this happens, but it seems to be quite overstretching luck to have this happen in a row to one person.

(3) A lighthouse in Rome in Caesar's time? I thought that the lighthouse of Ostia was build only under Claudius.

(4) How much are you reading to discover all these details and quotations? Did you read the full works of Aristotle?

(5) On a side note: Did the ancients really think that Pneuma had something to do with our neural system and lodestones?

(1) A healthy dose of skepticism is always welcome. And to be honest the some of my orginal ideas/title for the timeline were a tad bit too ambitious.

(2) a. Frogs, or better their nerves are easy to work with, same reason as OTL.

b. The silverbox is an artefact of my first attempt at this story. The new version that I will soon update goes roughly this way:
Herophilos want to investigate electric fish. He builds himself a testing rigg. Frogs are put on hooks made of metal A (for example brass). Then he connects the frogs with different
materials to the cat fish. In case of certain material like metal B or C (copper, silver etc.) the connection works without the input of the fish. Than things happen along the original path.
That should be a much more plausible story for his discovery.

(3) These passages are actually taken from "The Royal Diaries of Cleopatra VII". I don't know how historically accurate the book is, but in this timeline the reason for such minor divergences
are butterflies caused by the POD. Still got to know, I'll look it up and put this into a footnote.

(4) Well, most of my timelines are googling for interesting things and seeing were it goes. The topic of blood transfusion, etc. happens to be something I have been reading up since I started my first timeline A Martian Stranded on Earth.This doesn't mean that I don't do some "traditional" research and reading. For example I am know going through "The Shocking History of Electric Fishes: From Ancient Epochs to the Birth of Modern Neurophysiology" a book really worth with importing with Amazon. Googling doesn't mean no reading thou.

For examplewhile I read Heron's treaty on pneumatics. looking for his idea of the void/vacuum. I came across this little gem. "Again, one light traverses another; for, when several lamps are lightcd, all objects are brilliantly illuminated, the rays passing in every direction through each other. And indeed it is possible to penetrate through bronze, iron, and all other bodies, as is seen in the instance of the marine torpedo (The pneumatics of Hero of Alexandria form the orginal greeek translated by Bybennet Woodcroft)."

(5) Thales at least thought so yes. But given that there was also a widespread believe that for example wind can impragnate animals, this isn't one of their wackiest ideas.

On another note. I am currently writing two additional chapters about the - Discovery of Electricity- that will be shoehorned into the existing timeline. They won't change what was written so far, but fill in the missing history of what happened after the battery was invented. This in turn will allow a bit more breathing space for Cleopatra's story to focus on philosophy and a bit less on technical innovation.
 
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