Great maps and updates.
Here's to hoping Antlanteans get a Pacific port soon and link up with Indonesia. Hopefully the Islamic states can contact and influence the Polynesians.
Thank you! I think we have a while to get yet before that, but the longer groups wait for their ideas, I think the larger the mytho-ideology that follows it. Two concepts I want to see throughout this TL are: 1) Muslim colonisation of the New World, especially being by Andalusians, will lack the "defeatist" and inward-approach of Muslims of the Old World and won't stagnate academically, scientifically, etc. 2) New World ideologies of expansion "Sea to Sea," "Manifest Destiny" coupled well with powers and elites desire for more control is probably universal.
Ridwan Asher said:One thing was brought elsewhere, and it intrigues me.
What will be the fate of Mesoamerican science here ? Especially Mayan ? It will depend on how the Spaniards treat their culture and knowledge in general. With extra reconquista fervor involved, I'm quite skeptical. But that depends not only in Spanish opinion, but also in the extent to which they'll be able to enforce their will upon the native intellectual and scientific traditions. Has/will spanish rule in the Americas diverge enough from OTL to deserve a later update explaining about it ?
Extra Reconquista fervor surely will see a similar end to "high science" in Mesoamerica for the first few centuries. Though don't underestimate the role of the Yucatan and the "marooned" Muslim indigenous communities throughout hard-to-access regions of the New World. They would be a perfect ally and partner on land for New World corsairs. Imagine a complex Early Modern mafia throughout New Spain and into the Muslim World. The Franco-Ottoman and Anglo-Moroccan alliances will do much to aide this. But Spain's grasp of the Low Countries, the HRE, the Inca, and so far the only power present on all continents cannot be eroded too easily.
I would expect for now, the Mexican Inquisition is a bit tougher than OTL, but otherwise progresses basically as per OTL until I mention some more ramifications. Its a bit early for these isolated Muslim indigenous groups to play a huge role on cosmopolitan centers, etc.
Question: Would New Spain still go by "Mexico" if it hadn't Tenochtitlan until 1624? I presume no, then again, maybe?
Nassirisimo said:I have to say, this TL is really coming along well. Well-written, well-researched, and I doubt there are few topics that are quite as awesome as a al-Andalus in the Mississippi valley.
Thank you so much Nassir, really appreciate your reading, following and commenting
Nassirisimo said:I do have a question that's (kind of) related to the map of the Moorish new world in 1700. What's the population of the Moorish areas like around that time?
The expulsions from Granada, the Jews and the Moriscos were huge by colonial migration standards. Within North Africa, the "Andalusis" took generations to integrate and often fought with locals for control. This is a common denominator in the oft-balkanized Maghred of the 16th and 17th century. While I would presume initially without many ships, only so many could make it to the New World, once they can, the majority will eventually go. for Bayouk...
For Atlantis, I will have to research some plausible ideas: plus we have the majority of Aztec elite incorporated with the Berbers making Atlanteans.
As for indigenous tribes, it has already been mentioned, but I am of the belief, coupled with what Ridwan already mentioned of hygiene and nutrition of Muslim Iberians coupled with their medicinal tradition and that of the Aztecs, we could honestly expect to see a significant decline in the death of indigenous populations in North America. Not ignore it, but perhaps limit it to loosing only 25% of their populations in areas of core Bayouk. Europeans from the south, east and north might effect that later on, but later on we can expect the core of Bayouk to be highly mestizo, or "muladi."
In sum, let me do some research and plausibility calculations and I will try to get some population figures for 2-3 periods between the first contact and 1700 inchalla.
Odd_Numbered_Bonaparte said:Kahoqiah and Kasquaskia should swap places on your map. (Assuming they are supposed to be roughly where the OTL Cahokia and Kaskaskia are)
Anyway, I love this TL so much.
You should have seen how frantic my mac's screen was as I tried to balance the paint app to make the map, with the TL on AH.com, with the various Wiki's about the OTL locations of the mounds, with an OTL map of colonial North America circa 1750...I could have swore I told myself "Cahokia on top of the other." Grrr. Thank you, I will remember to update that for future maps.
Thanks for the love! Love it more, read it more, comment and critique it more!
Ridwan Asher said:Will the Bayouk muslims connect with Asia so soon, before the British and French come in and plant their presence in North America ? I can't see Spanish vector can grant them anything more then a very, VERY limited access to East Indies and Asia in general, but British and French ones will might give them much more leeway, even if not as independent actors. What will more strongly affect Spanish and Portuguese adventures in Asia, will be how slowed down Spanish advances in Americas had been by the overall situation.
It will be a while before Moorish polities in the New World establish direct contact with the Indies. For now a lot of it will be via Ottoman traders and Barbary corsairs. The Spanish control the Pacific, for now. But the pan-Tropic of Cancer presence of Muslim states will play a huge role the in the economy and socio-political ideology of the Moorish new World to come.
But yes, Spanish advances in Asia have been a bit slowed down, allowing for a more resurgent Ottoman Empire and Oman in the Indian Ocean. I think formal Ottoman diplomacy with Protestant Europe will last longer than its brief momentary existence in OTL, and the Catholic fear of Turco-Calvinism will be much more realistic.
Also, though, that just might make the Habsburg-Persian alliance more realistic than OTL as well
This period of history was so much more equal and global on so many ways, its a shame modern history in OTL was basically frozen from the 19th century or a bit before. I quite like the 16th as a model to form the modern world, or at least radically change its foundations.
Jonathan Edelstein said:Very cool - I assume this shows how Atlantis' last king is regarded in Bayouk after the fall?
You know I had typed up my first encyclopedic-like entry for this song and the internet stopped working. The last king of Atlantis was the grandson of Moqtezouma's pro-Spanish son ("Shamalboqa") who obviously won over the TTL's equivalent of Isabel Moctezouma and her Berber allies ("Taqishba"). The idea is that the stoicity of Atlantean society will be the push that ends the fatalist ideologies of the Moriscos and Mudejars in Bayouk as they eventually replace the latter as elites for a significant portion of Bayouk history (more on this to come.)
The last king is indeed regarded as a traitor, but the loss of Atlantis will become seen as the necessary evil to engineer the greatest expansion of Islam since the Rashidun Caliphate (ignoring the Turks and Ottomans, of course, who will not always be Bayouk's BFFLs and thus get ignored from Moorish New World historigraphy.)
Unknown said:Gonna take this to today?
I am not quite sure. I don't know if I'm up to all the minutiae that result from such an early POD on every corner of the globe, so in terms of a detailed TL for the whole world, not so likely. I would really like to work and write on the Moorish New World up to modern times at least. We will see, though nothing is certain. Its a work in process.