Map Thread XX

Status
Not open for further replies.
Wowee. Never seen an islamic Iceland before. Great job! But, how different is the world in general, IE: Europe, Americas Africa? Asking this as you have mentioned Israel, Iran and Arabia
Thanks!
I figure the Middle East is divided in a power play between a Hashemite Arabia, non-Revolutionary Iran, and Western-backed Israel. The most powerful states in Europe are Germany, Britain and Russia. Africa sees colonization from Denmark, which remains a middle power. Japan is moderately successful imperially and retains overseas colonies. Spain and France are united under the Bourbons. The United States is never formed since the Revolution never happened, so it's similar to Canada. Oh, and China is a mess.
 
Progress marches on! Mostly done except islands.

My 191 Rendition.png
 
Last edited:
Ok, I've been working on my second map for a while now. It's not as good as I would like (the basemap I used did not have cities, lots of inaccuracies, and the final product is quite it bit more ugly than I wished it to be), but I think I'm ok with posting it. It's pretty big, so I've linked the full res version here. It's a tribute to my favorite timeline on this site "Land of Sweetness: A Pre-Columbian Timeline" which seems to be sadly discontinued.
WorldofLandofSweetnessfinal.png

In Jared Diamond’s seminal book, Guns, Germs and Steel, he argues that one of the primary disadvantages of New World civilizations compared to the Old were their isolation: the Andeans were isolated from the Mesoamericans, the Mesoamericans isolated from the Mississippians, and so on. This led to no formalized long-distance trade, and very little diffusion of ideas.

But what if this was different?

In the alternate history of “Land of Sweetness”, the Taíno of the Caribbean discover the outrigger and the sail, making maritime trade possible for the first time in the history of the New World. One event leads to another, and soon, sea routes criss-cross the Pacific and the Atlantic, the thousands-year long isolation of the disparate civilizations of the New World broken.

The New World of 1408, some three hundred years after the invention of the sail and outrigger, is one which radically departs from the New World of our time line. Mayan traders ply the South American coast, risking life and limb to trade for llama wool and bronze. Panama is home to the vast trading city of Ācuappāntōnco, where Mesoamerica and the Andes intermix. Yucayan (Taíno) explorers reach as far north as the Chesapeake bay, and there is talk of finding out if the Atlantic is really an endless ocean after all.

Not only trade changed in this brave new world. The exchange of ideas have brought about revolutionary changes in the political sphere as well. In Mesoamerica, Ah Ek Lemba, a Pre-Columbian Alexander the Great, dreams of world domination as his huge armies and his equally vast war-fleets conquer in his name, his strength only matched by the desperate coalition assembled to stop him. In the Andes, a new empire arises in Ecuador, and in the Caribbean, a radical, iconoclast and proselytizing religion has taken hold. In North America, coastal tribes buoyed by trade start forming centralized kingdoms of their own. The New World is amidst a revolution of trade and ideas: but will it be enough to survive the onslaught of the Old?
 
This is really great and I love it greatly.

However, I still feel like America will kill itself in a second civil war/second Revolution as just winning doesn't really solve anything else. If anything, the Chinese will still have the last laugh at the USA. And then the Great War happens anyhow.

Could you do a version of the PRC winning and crushing the USA?
Those Alaskan oil fields would certainly not last long if they don't transition to post-oil. I could see them try to pillage another large country for more resources if they don't do anything about it.

This large country i am talking about is probably the (still alive) USSR. I could see them easily going to war with them over A. "dirty commies!!!! time to spread democracy!!!" and B. "we need those sweet sweet raw materials"

I easily could see this end in two ways:

1. Americans invade and later on, the Soviets fire their missiles and the world ends. Game over.

2. The war doesn't go nuclear for some reason and the USSR is left balkanized like China. The Americans later get bit in the ass as they realized the war consumed more resources than it gave out, and would later pillage another country for it. Or, the most likely outcome i think is, America's wild ride ends at this stage as they descend into chaos.



I could make a PRC victory later on but i'm too lazy at the moment.
 
dedlggu-06d464d6-3bf0-4b67-b853-0609a2e25fd7.png


If you know about Fallout lore, you should know about the Sino-American war, y'know, the war that destroyed the world and created the wasteland?, yeah the usual stuff.

But, what if, it didn't have to end this way?

What if one side did actually win over the other? (in this case America)

Hope you enjoy.​

-----------0-----------​



In 2060, as the last fuel reserves went dry, traffic on the streets died as fuel became too valuable to waste on automobiles. The automotive industry desperately tried to come up with a solution to the problem, but electric and early fusion cars were too little, too late to help solve the growing needs of society.

The fuel shortages were further emphasized following the collapse of the European Commonwealth and the Middle East descending to anarchy following a limited nuclear exchange. The Third Red Scare would unfold as a response to the increased hostility of the People's Republic of China and its operations on American soil.

As the economy of the communist state was dependent to a much greater degree on fossil fuels than that of the U.S., China found itself on the brink of collapse by spring of 2066, with oil fields finally drying up just about everywhere. With the United States unwilling to export its own reserves of crude oil, China had become more aggressive in its negotiations. It would seem as though, a war with China was inevitable.

Bu then, it happened. China launched an invasion of Alaska to seize its oil reserves in the winter of 2066. This daring military operation marked the beginning of the Sino-American War.,

Under the command of General Zihao Jingwei, Chinese forces landed in Alaska with a large parachute assault. Carried out in winter, the landing allowed the Chinese to usurp control of Alaska's oil pipeline, derricks, and reserves, and secure the flow of resources to the homeland, propping up its economy.

Although at first, the American military retreats all fronts as the Chinese gamble pays off, however they face heavy resistance from American partisans that fiercely oppose the occupation by Chinese forces, although they are almost wiped out in a few years, this slows down the Chinese advance enough to allow the Americans to fully regroup at a better position further into Alaska.

Later on, unable to sustain the war effort without establishing safe supply routes on land, away from the Chinese Navy, the United States pressures the Canadian Commonwealth into granting military access on land and its airspace. When Ottawa yields, despite initial resistance, the stage is set for the subsequent occupation and annexation of the Commonwealth ten years later.

With the pressure for a functional suit of power armor greater than ever, the United States military and its contractors created the first model of power armor using available technologies. Designated T-45, it was a crude construction. However, its ability to wield heavy weapons with ease greatly increased the firepower and mobility of American troops, allowing them to counter Chinese tanks and infantry.

After the first suits are deployed in January 2067, China rushes to create its own versions but is unable to come up with a counter. The crude nature of the armor allows for slowing the advance. The situation eventually devolves into a stalemate. The situation devolves into a stalemate rapidly.

One of the turning points of the War came in 2070, as despite claims of fighting a defensive war, American infantry and mechanized divisions landed in Shantou via the Philippines as the beginning of a counter-invasion of Chinese mainland. The American economy strained as American soldiers, Marines, sailors, and airmen fought a war on three fronts: Canada, Alaska, and mainland China. Neither side was willing to yield, despite several years of constant warfare. The situation there devolved into another stalemate, however, the hold of balance in Alaska was finally being won by the Americans, as the Chinese unexpectedly began pulling their forces en masse out to counter the invasion and increasing unrest at home.

In a one final offensive the Americans finally pushed the Chinese out of Alaska in February of 2072. Crowds in major cities across the United States triumphantly celebrated. Though, the war would stretch out for longer and was far from over, yet. The opposite was true for China, as anti-war riots sprung up throughout the country, the government would crack down on these and drag the war for longer, unsurprisingly causing more anti-war riots and unrest, who could've guessed?, especially when the U.S. Marines rapidly overran Shanghai and many other port cities.

It seems as though, the people has lost faith in chairman Wei Cheng, a man who was once greatly loved by the people and respected within the party. Many of his own comrades began crafting a plot to assassinate him to end the war. And then it did really happened, on August 2073, Wei Cheng was found dead in his office, assassinated via polonium poisoning. Fu Xiaodan and his followers would later coup the governement and later claim that he would be the one to finally put an end to god-forsaken war. This also had the unexpected effect of demoralizing the PLA who were already quite exhausted at fighting the Americans(Many were still highly loyal to Cheng), allowing American forces to push even deeper.

In a desperate gamble to end this madness, shortly after, Zou Xin, and many who were still loyal to Chairman Cheng, couped Xiaodan's government and claim that the "rightful government" has returned, this ultimately led to a civil war between those loyal to Xiaodan and Xin. The Americans were quite surprised to hear that China had officially snapped. By this time, any remaining sense of authority was shattered across the country as separatists began to spring up in certain areas like Mongolia, Tibet and Xinjiang, taking advantage of the situation.

Ultimately, the situation deteriorated so much and grew too far out of hand, that it actually ended the brief civil war as China descended to warlordism, once again. Workers striking in Sichuan, radicalized nationalists on horses in Mongolia, Islamists in Xinjiang/East Turkestan, radical buddhists in Tibet/U-Tsang, federalists in Yunnan, American-backed democrats in Guandong, and many, many more.

Trying to survive and keep Cheng's vision alive, Xin and his loyalists evacuated to the northwest and officially re-declared the People's Republic of China, this China is indeed recognized as the legitimate successor to the late PRC. Meanwhile, Xiaodan and his followers relocated just south of Xin's clique, ever since, they dropped the former Neo-Maoist ideology and has since adopted classical Marxism as a middle finger to Xin loyalists, who never dropped Neo-Maoism.

The rest of China descended to their own little squabbling cliques.

By the time 2075 arrived, the mighty People's Republic of China that once stood, was no more. A new holiday for Americans would be made and later come to be known as VC (short for Victory in China) day during this time, while major American cities were drowned with sounds of triumph and victory, now, dozens in China die due to war or starvation caused by the utter chaos in China.​
This one opens up my headcannon on the subject of America winning the Sino-American War. And my answer is: America might have won but they aren't gonna benefit from it. I imagine the post war world will be full of riots, desertions, shortages, and probable civil war...
 
This large country i am talking about is probably the (still alive) USSR. I could see them easily going to war with them over A. "dirty commies!!!! time to spread democracy!!!" and B. "we need those sweet sweet raw materials"
This one opens up my headcannon on the subject of America winning the Sino-American War. And my answer is: America might have won but they aren't gonna benefit from it. I imagine the post war world will be full of riots, desertions, shortages, and probable civil war...
If tech development goes down the same path as canon, the world will almost certainly turn out fine. The greatest tragedy of the Great War was that the Big MT thinktank had just succeeded in developing what was, for all intents and purposes, a Star Trek replicator: the Sierra Madre vending machine. Capable of processing simple raw materials into any finished goods, including food and chems, the world was on the cusp of a full-blown, post-scarcity transition when the bombs fell.

Victory over China means that Fallout America no longer has an Evil Empire to justify its own descent into fascism. If the tech status quo remains, then I can see the Soviet war/civilisational collapse outcome happening. But since the SM vending machine was privately funded by Frederick Sinclair, its development will not be affected by the Sino-American War's end; the resulting prosperity will likely be enough to stabilise the US; eventually leading to demands for re-democratisation from the American populace and perhaps the restoration of a rump Canadian republic. The big question is whether the US is going to share the tech with the rest of the world's crumbling nations; if they refuse the Soviets, for example, then nuclear apocalypse will likely happen just like canon.
 
Last edited:
By that logic, maybe mainland Europe should be considered an island subcontinent of North America or Africa.
Depends what the ice sheets are like in this world. Possible glaciers wrap around Greenland into Europe and people assume Europe and North America are the same continent. The Pacific Islands certainly are going to see extra exotic here, given how the America’s, Africa, and Europe will be connected earlier on, with Asia also bound to still get a lot of traffic via the Indian Ocean . Hmmm, the Silk Road across Central Asia is going to take a few added turns in this world. No longer a need to go into the Middle East.
 
Capture d’écran 2021-02-06 à 21.59.02.png

The Diyanate of Yokutsi in the 1550's.

Right after the Great Plague that wiped out 40% of the population in the Californian and Plateau regions, the Diyanate is getting back on its feet, and braces itself to face new threats, as a new era begins, now that two worlds have just met.

The Premisce is that American Camels survives, allowing way easier warfare and travel, therefore creating a need for better weapons, armour,... And in the end, North America (and later the Andes) don't get stuck at the Bronze/Iron age. This is one of the states that this alternate TL gave us.

The Document is too heavy for the site apparently, so you may get a better and higher version right here:
 
So this one's a doozy.

Apparently, in 1938, Princess Marie Bonaparte proposed to Franklin D. Roosevelt the idea of purchasing the Baja California Peninsula off Mexico in order to create a Jewish homeland. The idea was deemed ridiculous by everyone from the President to Sigmund Freud... unless?

Screen Shot 2021-02-06 at 2.23.52 PM.png

In July 1940, the Treaty of San Diego was signed between the governments of the United States and Mexico. It was a bold plan: the U.S. had agreed to purchase the Baja California peninsula from Mexico at a rather elevated price, with the objective of turning the desolate strip of desert into a second Israel. The Nazi threat in Europe had convinced more than a few minds that the Jewish population of Europe was in peril. They were called alarmists just a year prior. However, the German invasion of Poland and the outbreak of the second continental war in twenty years quieted any skepticism. Horrifying tales of pogroms and cold-blooded murders systematically carried out by the Nazi state had sent the Jews of the world into a panic. Either they found their Promised Land, or they would be burned by the fires of Nazism.

This scheme, to create a Jewish country in North America, had left Congress dumbfounded when President Roosevelt put it forth. Was he serious? How could something so illogical and ridiculous be taken seriously? It wasn't until the 1940 State of the Union address that things changed: Roosevelt delivered a passionate speech in which he called Congress "the enactors of the world's fate" and urged them to "not remain idle as humanity's eleventh hour comes to a close, and we enter the dark midnight of eternal tyranny." That February, Congress barely passed the Jewish Relocation Act 1940, and negotiations with Mexico began. President Lázaro Cárdenas had a somewhat frosty relationship with Washington: his policy of expropriating Mexico's oil business from American corporations two years earlier had been poorly received by the U.S. However, Cárdenas had also opened Mexico's doors to thousands of foreigners escaping persecution and violence, beginning with the Spanish Civil War of 1936, and including several Jews. Cárdenas' humanitarian attitude and desire to patch relations with the U.S. formed the basis for negotiations, which took place at the American embassy in Mexico City.

Cárdenas was fearful that selling Mexican territory would make him look "like a second Santa Anna", recalling how the dictator lost over half of Mexico to the Americans almost a century prior. Roosevelt, however, stressed that this wouldn't be perceived as an act of imperialism, but as an act of goodwill and mercy. It would make Cárdenas look like a savior for hundreds of thousands of Jews fleeing death and oppression. It wasn't an easy pitch: the conversation went back and forth with proposals and counter-proposals. Cárdenas said he would agree to sell the territory for fifty million USD. It was far from cheap; however, Roosevelt decided this was as close as they would get to a good deal, and readily accepted before the Mexicans could change their minds.

The invasion of France and the Low Countries accelerated plans in Baja California. Following the signing of the treaty and the transfer of jurisdiction, the U.S. began collaborating with the free nations of Europe to transfer Jews to this new homeland. They would be shipped to the United States, then taken across the country to San Diego, before being sent to Baja California. The U.S. invested heavily in developing the territory's infrastructure. Millions were spent building roads, railways, houses, hospitals, schools, synagogues, port facilities, and more. By 1943, some 30,000 Jews had been relocated to Baja California. By the end of the war in the summer of 1945, the number had grown to 500,000. In 1946, the U.S. transferred management of the territory to the Provisional Government of New Israel, which in 1947 declared the establishment of the independent State of New Israel.

The population stands at roughly 6.2 million people, with 92% being Jews. The main languages are Hebrew and English, with a sizeable minority of Spanish-speaking Mexicans. Other languages such as Yiddish, Russian, Polish, Ukrainian, Belarusian, Greek, and Druze can also be heard. New Israel is a semi-presidential parliamentary republic. The U.S. and Mexico were the first countries to recognize it, and relations remain excellent. Relations with Muslim countries are far more strained; however, these have steadily improved. Diehard Jewish nationalists have called New Israel only a "temporary home" until the final reconquest of the Holy Land from Muslim hands; however, they are but a tiny minority. Indeed, most Jews see New Israel as their one and true home.
 
After another break which was longer than I intended, here's the next maps in my timezone ISOT series.

UTC+0800.png

UTC+08:00
Regions transported: Russia (Irkutsk, Buryatia), Mongolia (central and eastern provinces), China, Taiwan, Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore, Brunei, Indonesia (central provinces), Australia (Western Australia exc. Eucla and surroundings)

After a brief consideration of trying to explain away the Event, the CCP soon decided to embrace the opportunities it presented. Support for larger families was implemented to provide future new consumers to replace the lost export markets as well as a huge potential pool of settlers and labourers to staff the bureaucracies and build the infrastructure required for establishing new provinces across Asia. While the payoff of these expansive policies took some time to gather momentum, the PRC's expansion in one area was lighting fast. While many were still struggling to adapt the new situation, the PLA grabbed the element of surprise, launching a coordinated invasion force across the Taiwan Strait. Within days the Taiwan Special Administrative Region had been established and the Republic of China's leaders had either disappeared or fled south to the Philippines.

China's rapid and dramatic expansion was met with a mixture of concern and interest by their northern neighbours. While Ulaanbaatar soon found itself inexorably sucked into Beijing's orbit, Irkutsk saw the opportunity that Siberia's replenished natural resources and an increasingly resource-hungry China presented. Thus many Russian businessmen grew rich, while their government gained a level of leverage that allowed them to avoid failing under Chinese domination as their Mongolian neighbours had. Nevertheless, China's growing presence north of the Amur and in central Asia made practical expressions of independence increasingly difficult as all communications with nations to the south had to be routed through Chinese conduits.

Immediately to China's south, Manila was conflicted regarding its new Taiwanese guests. While many were sympathetic and had no desire to pander to the CCP, others saw them as a security risk and argued that by continuing to host the ROC-in-exile, the Philippines would put itself next on China's invasion list. Ultimately, the latter viewpoint won out, and focus turned towards the virgin islands to the east. Attitudes towards China were warmer in Singapore, home to the largest Chinese population outside China, and Malaysia, with the two nations becoming important destinations for Chinese goods and investment. Another recipient of Chinese yuan was the government of Indonesia, increasingly in need of funding for the construction of their new capital city in East Kalimantan. To many Indonesians, their government's focus on Kalimantan at, what they saw as, the expense of other islands, and the role of Chinese money in that development, created a sense of alienation and abandonment. Soon many provinces were only paying lip service to their subordination to the central government, while those in Sumatra stopped even the pretence of loyalty as they declared their independence from Indonesia.

While Sumatra was establishing itself apart from Indonesia, others made the individual decision to cross the Timor Sea in significant numbers such that Malays soon became the predominant ethnic group in northern Australia. Western Australia's government had been granting mining, farming and settlement concessions across the continent, creating an Outback boom fuelled by resource exports to China. Two other groups of settlers in Oceania were less well inclined to China though, with the ROC re-establishing itself in northern New Guinea after their expulsion from the Philippines, while New Britain was established by the remnants of Hong Kong's democracy movement and those who could use their legacy BNO passports to leave the PRC.


UTC+0845.png

UTC+08:45
Regions transported: Australia (Eucla and surroundings)

Residents along the Eyre Highway around the Western Australian town of Eucla slowly expanded the limits of their unique world both east and west along the Great Australian Bight, establishing new ranches, farmsteads and fisheries as they went. It wasn't until the more fertile lands of the Esperance coast were reached that the population began to substantially increase thanks to greater and more reliable agricultural yields. Soon the new Esperance population outnumbered those who remembered the original Eucla way of life, causing a permanent split, and the creation of the world's second nation.
 
So this one's a doozy.

Apparently, in 1938, Princess Marie Bonaparte proposed to Franklin D. Roosevelt the idea of purchasing the Baja California Peninsula off Mexico in order to create a Jewish homeland. The idea was deemed ridiculous by everyone from the President to Sigmund Freud... unless?

In July 1940, the Treaty of San Diego was signed between the governments of the United States and Mexico. It was a bold plan: the U.S. had agreed to purchase the Baja California peninsula from Mexico at a rather elevated price, with the objective of turning the desolate strip of desert into a second Israel. The Nazi threat in Europe had convinced more than a few minds that the Jewish population of Europe was in peril. They were called alarmists just a year prior. However, the German invasion of Poland and the outbreak of the second continental war in twenty years quieted any skepticism. Horrifying tales of pogroms and cold-blooded murders systematically carried out by the Nazi state had sent the Jews of the world into a panic. Either they found their Promised Land, or they would be burned by the fires of Nazism.

This scheme, to create a Jewish country in North America, had left Congress dumbfounded when President Roosevelt put it forth. Was he serious? How could something so illogical and ridiculous be taken seriously? It wasn't until the 1940 State of the Union address that things changed: Roosevelt delivered a passionate speech in which he called Congress "the enactors of the world's fate" and urged them to "not remain idle as humanity's eleventh hour comes to a close, and we enter the dark midnight of eternal tyranny." That February, Congress barely passed the Jewish Relocation Act 1940, and negotiations with Mexico began. President Lázaro Cárdenas had a somewhat frosty relationship with Washington: his policy of expropriating Mexico's oil business from American corporations two years earlier had been poorly received by the U.S. However, Cárdenas had also opened Mexico's doors to thousands of foreigners escaping persecution and violence, beginning with the Spanish Civil War of 1936, and including several Jews. Cárdenas' humanitarian attitude and desire to patch relations with the U.S. formed the basis for negotiations, which took place at the American embassy in Mexico City.

Cárdenas was fearful that selling Mexican territory would make him look "like a second Santa Anna", recalling how the dictator lost over half of Mexico to the Americans almost a century prior. Roosevelt, however, stressed that this wouldn't be perceived as an act of imperialism, but as an act of goodwill and mercy. It would make Cárdenas look like a savior for hundreds of thousands of Jews fleeing death and oppression. It wasn't an easy pitch: the conversation went back and forth with proposals and counter-proposals. Cárdenas said he would agree to sell the territory for fifty million USD. It was far from cheap; however, Roosevelt decided this was as close as they would get to a good deal, and readily accepted before the Mexicans could change their minds.

The invasion of France and the Low Countries accelerated plans in Baja California. Following the signing of the treaty and the transfer of jurisdiction, the U.S. began collaborating with the free nations of Europe to transfer Jews to this new homeland. They would be shipped to the United States, then taken across the country to San Diego, before being sent to Baja California. The U.S. invested heavily in developing the territory's infrastructure. Millions were spent building roads, railways, houses, hospitals, schools, synagogues, port facilities, and more. By 1943, some 30,000 Jews had been relocated to Baja California. By the end of the war in the summer of 1945, the number had grown to 500,000. In 1946, the U.S. transferred management of the territory to the Provisional Government of New Israel, which in 1947 declared the establishment of the independent State of New Israel.

The population stands at roughly 6.2 million people, with 92% being Jews. The main languages are Hebrew and English, with a sizeable minority of Spanish-speaking Mexicans. Other languages such as Yiddish, Russian, Polish, Ukrainian, Belarusian, Greek, and Druze can also be heard. New Israel is a semi-presidential parliamentary republic. The U.S. and Mexico were the first countries to recognize it, and relations remain excellent. Relations with Muslim countries are far more strained; however, these have steadily improved. Diehard Jewish nationalists have called New Israel only a "temporary home" until the final reconquest of the Holy Land from Muslim hands; however, they are but a tiny minority. Indeed, most Jews see New Israel as their one and true home.
With Palestine remaining under Muslim control, what is the fate of the Yishuv?
 
With Palestine remaining under Muslim control, what is the fate of the Yishuv?

Good question, seeing as there was already a significant Jewish community there by 1940. As in, 450,000~ Jews approaching a third of the population, with a informal government and a militia capable of mobilizing 10,000+ fighters. That's not just going to move or disappear.
 
Top
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top