Identity in the colonies before and after 1707

[Qhapaq Inka]

Did the English and Scottish settlers in the North American colonies feel "British" after the 1707 Acts of Union? Or did they continue to see themselves as English/Scottish, with just a change in the political and administrative situation? Did some perhaps see the Acts of Union as applying to the home countries, but not to them in the colonies? And how much did identity and attitudes change between 1707 and the eve of the revolution?

And considering the earlier Union of the Crowns, how did English and Scottish settlers see their home nation(s) before 1707? Were there any who felt they had a "British" identity, as opposed to English/Scottish, during the 17th century?

Also, any idea on how many Welsh settlers there were in North America during the colonial period? How did they see themselves before and after 1707?

 

[The Uchronian]

Did the English and Scottish settlers in the North American colonies feel "British" after the 1707 Acts of Union? Or did they continue to see themselves as English/Scottish, with just a change in the political and administrative situation? Did some perhaps see the Acts of Union as applying to the home countries, but not to them in the colonies? And how much did identity and attitudes change between 1707 and the eve of the revolution?

And considering the earlier Union of the Crowns, how did English and Scottish settlers see their home nation(s) before 1707? Were there any who felt they had a "British" identity, as opposed to English/Scottish, during the 17th century?

Also, any idea on how many Welsh settlers there were in North America during the colonial period? How did they see themselves before and after 1707?

This is actually an interesting subject, in my view: I dunno if I've gotten to this before, but I actually recently found out that I'm directly descended from some of the Welsh Quakers in Pennsylvania, through one of my mother's lines-I believe my Welsh ancestor was one of the later arrivals, as he was born in 1709 or thereabouts.

I also recall hearing of the "Welsh Tract" in North Carolina, but my knowledge about that is admittedly sparse(I'd personally like to know more, though, given that Anglos and the Scots-Irish were the two most predominant settler groups down South, especially the former).

As for how the Welsh viewed themselves? I dunno; I do know the Scots-Irish in particular generally felt like outcasts, though, perhaps especially in the South.

 

[Qhapaq Inka]

Nice! I have partial English colonial ancestry on my mother's side; one of her father's parents was from an old Massachusetts line dating back to 1640 (and from Dorchester, England before that); the other parent was from a Loyalist line that had settled in Shelburne, Nova Scotia.

I've heard that a lot of Southern whites are descended from Scottish and Irish settlers, or at least a segment of them. Is it people primarily from Appalachia/Kentucky/Tennessee?

 

[funnyhat]

Did the English and Scottish settlers in the North American colonies feel "British" after the 1707 Acts of Union? Or did they continue to see themselves as English/Scottish, with just a change in the political and administrative situation?

I'm not an expert on the matter but I'd assume the latter. I doubt that the average Englishman suddenly thought of himself as "British" first just because his Parliament (which he most likely could not vote for anyway) absorbed the Scottish Parliament. And in the colonies, the change was probably noticed even less.

 

[Viriato]

From the writings of the day, it seems that in many areas, people of English descent referred to themselves simply as Englishmen. In 1776, William Smith, a native New Yorker described Queen's population as being divided into Dutch and English Presbyterians and English Episcopalians and Quakers. He also mentions the French in Richmond County (Staten Island). People in New England are continuously referred to as English in the writings of the day, and perhaps for that reason the Amish to this day refer to outsiders as "the English".

"In 1770, Edmund Burke described the following about Pennsylvania.
Pennsylvania is inhabited by upwards of two hundred and fifty thousand people, half of whom are Germans, Swedes, or Dutch. Here you see the Quakers Churchmen, Calvinists, Lutherans, Catholics, Methodists, Menists (?), Moravians, Independents, Anabaptists, and the Dumplers (?), a sort of German sect, that live in something like a religious society, wear long beards, and a habit resembling that of the friars."

It seems that Scots were still treated somewhat as aliens, particularly in New England. For instance, the use of Scots Highlanders to repress Englishmen was decried in both Boston and London.

 

[Umbric Man]

Nice! I have partial English colonial ancestry on my mother's side; one of her father's parents was from an old Massachusetts line dating back to 1640 (and from Dorchester, England before that); the other parent was from a Loyalist line that had settled in Shelburne, Nova Scotia.

I've heard that a lot of Southern whites are descended from Scottish and Irish settlers, or at least a segment of them. Is it people primarily from Appalachia/Kentucky/Tennessee?

Yes to the latter. The Upper South excepting the Chesapeake (lowland Virginia, Maryland, and North Carolina) is mostly Scots-Irish/Ulstermen in terms of British descent, with a healthy minority of people descended from settlers from Northern England (who did give a large batch of blood to the Scots-Irish in the first place...).

Also, Viriato and Funnyhat are right. The colonials were part of the Kingdom of Great Britain but happened to see themselves merely as Englishmen across the Atlantic, straight up to Tom Paine's writings, and referring to one as a Delawarean was no different than noting a Kentishman or Sussexman - they're all Englishmen! England dominated the Union and provided the majority of the colonists.

 

[Qhapaq Inka]

Yes to the latter. The Upper South excepting the Chesapeake (lowland Virginia, Maryland, and North Carolina) is mostly Scots-Irish/Ulstermen in terms of British descent, with a healthy minority of people descended from settlers from Northern England (who did give a large batch of blood to the Scots-Irish in the first place...).

Also, Viriato and Funnyhat are right. The colonials were part of the Kingdom of Great Britain but happened to see themselves merely as Englishmen across the Atlantic, straight up to Tom Paine's writings, and referring to one as a Delawarean was no different than noting a Kentishman or Sussexman - they're all Englishmen! England dominated the Union and provided the majority of the colonists.

That echoes something I saw in a film recently (wish I could remember which), that even several decades after US independence, people in England continued to see (white) Americans as Englishmen who had simply had a disagreement with the mother country and decided to leave. They apparently didn't yet see them as a different culture or nationality (as probably many Americans at the time were already seeing themselves).

 

[Thoresby]

That echoes something I saw in a film recently (wish I could remember which), that even several decades after US independence, people in England continued to see (white) Americans as Englishmen who had simply had a disagreement with the mother country and decided to leave. They apparently didn't yet see them as a different culture or nationality (as probably many Americans at the time were already seeing themselves).

To an extent that continued for a lot longer than that. While political seperation was firmly established by 1780 (at least among the Patriots) the idea that the English, Americans, Canadians etc. were all part of a single Anglo-Saxon race was standard throughout the 19th and into the 20th century in "cectain circles" (see Mississippi Burning). Culturally I'm not sure if Brits, Canadian, American etc. see each other as all that different culturally today. It's difficult to find a major movie without at least one British actor or a British TV schedule without at least a few American imports. I'd certainly argue that culturally New York and London are much closer to each other in terms of what they read, watch and think than say London and Harlow or New York and rural West Virgina.

 

[Viriato]

That echoes something I saw in a film recently (wish I could remember which), that even several decades after US independence, people in England continued to see (white) Americans as Englishmen who had simply had a disagreement with the mother country and decided to leave. They apparently didn't yet see them as a different culture or nationality (as probably many Americans at the time were already seeing themselves).

Until the revolution the term American as an identity seems to have been little used and that identity was forged as a result of the war. In 1775-1776 the settlers were not rejecting their identity as Englishmen, but reaffirming it. They saw the British Crown as violating their ancient rights, ones which their ancestors had fought for. It is fitting that the state seal of Massachusetts adopted in 1775 shows a man holding the Magna Carta in one hand and a sword in the other. At the First Continental Congress in 1774 only mentions their rights as Englishmen, and claiming their rights just as their ancestors (in England) had, stating that the rights of England were applicable to the colonies as they had not been forfeited or surrendered by emigration.

 

[Socrates]

From the writings of the day, it seems that in many areas, people of English descent referred to themselves simply as Englishmen. In 1776, William Smith, a native New Yorker described Queen's population as being divided into Dutch and English Presbyterians and English Episcopalians and Quakers. He also mentions the French in Richmond County (Staten Island). People in New England are continuously referred to as English in the writings of the day, and perhaps for that reason the Amish to this day refer to outsiders as "the English".

"In 1770, Edmund Burke described the following about Pennsylvania.
Pennsylvania is inhabited by upwards of two hundred and fifty thousand people, half of whom are Germans, Swedes, or Dutch. Here you see the Quakers Churchmen, Calvinists, Lutherans, Catholics, Methodists, Menists (?), Moravians, Independents, Anabaptists, and the Dumplers (?), a sort of German sect, that live in something like a religious society, wear long beards, and a habit resembling that of the friars."

It seems that Scots were still treated somewhat as aliens, particularly in New England. For instance, the use of Scots Highlanders to repress Englishmen was decried in both Boston and London.

But prior to the 1820s, the Highlanders did not have a united identity with lowland Scots either, so that is a bit misleading.

 

[NiGHTS]

To an extent that continued for a lot longer than that. While political seperation was firmly established by 1780 (at least among the Patriots) the idea that the English, Americans, Canadians etc. were all part of a single Anglo-Saxon race was standard throughout the 19th and into the 20th century in "cectain circles" (see Mississippi Burning). Culturally I'm not sure if Brits, Canadian, American etc. see each other as all that different culturally today. It's difficult to find a major movie without at least one British actor or a British TV schedule without at least a few American imports. I'd certainly argue that culturally New York and London are much closer to each other in terms of what they read, watch and think than say London and Harlow or New York and rural West Virgina.

Speaking as an American, I think it depends on what region. I guess the North East or at least New England feels culturally closer to the English, but the South West is much different. Like I know at least that Southern Californians feel pretty close to Mexico, but that's because lots of us are descended from Mexicans. When I think about it, even the non Hispanic whites in my area, identified as having German ancestry rather than English ancestry, and I could tell just by hearing their last names as they sounded very German. So, yeah at least for Americans, it depends on the region they're from and who they're ancestors were as a lot if my fellow Hispanics don't seem to particularly see England as being close to them as many of us lack English or even "British" ancestry, although I have it from my dad's side, but that English/ British( could have been Scottish) descended American was not nice...