How "Norman" Would An Anglo-French Kingdom Be If The English Won The HYW

[AltoRegnant]

now, it's a common view on this board that if the english had won the 100YW, England would be more frenchified than France anglicized. But, i want to know, how much would we recognize it as "Paris french," vs the Normans? now, i don't know that much about culture, or french subcultures, but i know that normandy, the ill-de-france, Aquitaine, lorraine, and wallonia (to name a few) all have slightly different dialects and mannerisms and that when we say french we mean something between all of these.

so, rambling over, how norman-french would an angevin kingdom be by... say, the 1600s, assuming an early english victory under Edward III?

for reference, we'll go with the dual monarchy from the vic 2 mod divergence of darkness. However, this is not about the mod in question or the plausibility of the scenario.

 

[Pralaya]

As someone from the ancient Vic II community, especially in regards to Divergences of Darkness, it was pretty established for the lore of the mod that Parisian French with some negligible amount of Anglo-Saxon loanwords is dominant within the Dual Monarchy, as the court of the Plantagenets moves to Paris from which it sheds its last mildly "Norman" roots. It's not exactly OTL French, of course, but it would come quite close to it. Burgundian, on the other hand...

Anyway, I think it is faulty logic to assume that such a hypothetical Anglo-French union would lead to an equal assimilation process on both sides of the channel, and that Normandy as the geographical center of the Union would lead to its oïl language becoming somehow more popular than other "patois" tongues. These are at least my two pennies to that.

 

[AltoRegnant]

Anyway, I think it is faulty logic to assume that such a hypothetical Anglo-French union would lead to an equal assimilation process on both sides of the channel, and that Normandy as the geographical center of the Union would lead to its oïl language becoming somehow more popular than other "patois" tongues. These are at least my two pennies to that.

I wasn't really trying to imply the assimilation would be equal, after all, all those other non-parisian dialects still exist OTL. but i, perhaps wrongly, assumed Normandy or Anjou would wind up the center of power in that scenario

 

[Euphemios]

By the time of Edward III, French assimilation is somewhat unlikely. More likely, English makes some gains in Normandy proper and other areas facing the channel, speaking of which, I notice Calais is Burgundian?

 

[Hannibal The Bannable]

Not very. The Anglo Norman nobility had switched to English by then . Also the Francification of England after a HYW victory is greatly exaggerated. Its a personal Union not a united kingdom and as I mentioned most of the English Nobility had become by and well English . It took a long time and other scenarios to Anglicize Ireland (besides it being conquerors imposing their language, in this case its Nativized Conquerers accepting French). While French English would definitely be higher with probably around 60-70% words Of Romance Origin with 5-25% in daily speech , but it would probably highly intelligible to the Modern Language. Now if the Personal Union unites as a United Kingdom it is possible that most people switch to French as seen in Scotland . However Scotland had switched to Scots by King James and English was more of a standardization . Also most Scottish people speak a mix of Scots and English. So I would say England still remains English . France will remain French.

 

[Janprimus]

It is very likely, that at least the English elite will become or stay bilingual in this scenario. With French (or this TTL Anglo-Norman-Parisien prestige dialect) being the common tongue for the elite.

 

[Yuhaoyang]

Parisian French was already more prestigious than Norman French in England before 1400.
Chaucer in his Canterbury Tales mocked the Abess for not speaking proper Parisian French.