How close was Antiquity to Industrialism?

[scholar]

So why -do- we think that there are proto-industrialism in the Roman Empire anymore than say, the 1300s in western Europe or northern Italy.

Western Europe in a general sense? hell no. But in certain locations like Genoa, Venice, Antwerp, and others? I do not.

If you are out to suggest that the High Medieval World is a better place to start, you would be right. Protoindustrialism became Industrialism in Europe as the Medieval World became the Modern World. However, a number of events saw the focal point shift from where it was most likely to occur in the 1300s, and that cost... perhaps centuries of development should the spark had been cultivated and allowed to explode where it was most prominent.

I think people might be overestimating how "advanced" the Romans were. The fundamental disagreement we are going to have is that I don't think the Romans were a proto-industrializing society on the model of England in the early modern era.

I do not, I am fully aware that as far as advancement is concerned, the 14th century was vastly above and beyond anything Rome had technologically speaking. Some things had been lost, but in the main its not a contest.

But really, it's far more difficult to remodel an economy and push it forward a thousand years or so than to produce a vast, sweeping change of territory. You can argue of course, that the Roman government without the crisis of the 3rd century will be different and more friendly to economic development....somewhat. It's just that it probably won't to the degree you believe it will be. With the exception of maybe maximizing tax revenue (which may or may not be a good thing since the implication is that you are taking it from the productive sectors of the economy and putting it into.....something) I can't think of too many examples where states were good at conducting economic policy in pre-modern times.

That's not the point, I have no desire to state that Emperors can make capitalism and industrialism happen. I actually stated it was more likely to occur in the provinces.

It is not that I want a friendly government, I want one that is not so utterly toxic to a burgeoning development that the course of human history was changed dramatically. Not only did politics change from an open affair where leaders were theoretically bound to the people (Princep, first Citizen, Father of the country) to one where they were purely military dynasts who turned it on its head so that the people were bound to a man and his army (the Dominate), but the entire monetary landscape was altered and the focus of the empire was shifted.