Fragments From A Dead Earth

[Emperor Norton I]

Very good. Keep going.

Thank you. This depressed me a bit.

Hmmm. Looks like Nazis with nukes nix New York. John's POV doesn't seem to mention the war at all, and seems to give the feeling that the Depression never really ended, so perhaps we have an America-stays-out POD with Germany launching an atomic Pearl Harbor-style first strike. That might require FDR to never be elected President, but I'm admittedly not going on much at this point.

Still, great work so far, OP!

Thank you.

*Update Spoilers*

The bombs aren't nukes. Johnny was in the middle of a carpet bombing that he survived by pure luck. Not everything is the same, but most things are the same other than the changes necessary for this event to occur in 1944. The Depression came and went, the United States is in WW2, and Roosevelt is president. Things in Brooklyn are how they really were. Guys could go to a factory job with very good pay and good benefits, but the places they lived in were just small apartments that were short on room and which they didn't decorate too much. That's why street life and going out were so important. And a lot of older people did live in rat holes in New York that had been there since the Gilded Age; they were bad when they started, they continued to be bad, but that's where they had lived. Other than that, I'll leave the story up to speculation until such time as I cover things. However, I wanted to address these points so as not to have a misunderstanding.

 

[Osakadave]

Mmmmm...

Even more interesting...

So far we have:
A hinted at but unexplained pre-1944 POD.
Germany having the ability to carpet bomb NYC in 1944.
A Korean War of some sort - surely of a completely different nature from OTL due to the previous two observations - that involved nukes.
A nuclear attack on San Diego in 1964 from an unnamed antagonist.
And the "dead earth" title implying an extinction level event.

Looking forward to seeing how you connect the dots!

 

[Michel Van]

Interesting, a working Nuclear program for Nazi
OTL that was mess around 27~35 groups working on atomic weapon and fight over the resource needed for a Nuke.
To make matter worst, one of leading scientist Von Weizsäcker made calculation mistake, believing the Atomic Bomb need 57 tons enrich Uranium to work...
The British and Norwegian commando destroy supply of heavy water needed by the Nazi to build a Nuke
In end 1944 SS-Obergruppenfüher Hans Kammler start unite those program under one SS Atomic bomb program
lucky for us far to late, in April 1945 The Third Reich capitulated.

Seems ITTL The Nazi got one running program with all what they need available.
We talk about in size of Manhattan project, that take 3 years to make first prototype and two operational bombs
next to that the Luftwaffe need program for long range heavy bomber ready for 1944

I'm curious how in this TL the Nazi manage that

Emperor Norton I
if you need additional data about that, PM me

 

[Osakadave]

Interesting, a working Nuclear program for Nazi
OTL that was mess around 27~35 groups working on atomic weapon and fight over the resource needed for a Nuke.
To make matter worst, one of leading scientist Von Weizsäcker made calculation mistake, believing the Atomic Bomb need 57 tons enrich Uranium to work...
The British and Norwegian commando destroy supply of heavy water needed by the Nazi to build a Nuke
In end 1944 SS-Obergruppenfüher Hans Kammler start unite those program under one SS Atomic bomb program
lucky for us far to late, in April 1945 The Third Reich capitulated.

Seems ITTL The Nazi got one running program with all what they need available.
We talk about in size of Manhattan project, that take 3 years to make first prototype and two operational bombs
next to that the Luftwaffe need program for long range heavy bomber ready for 1944

I'm curious how in this TL the Nazi manage that

Emperor Norton I
if you need additional data about that, PM me

Above post says it wasn't.

And I'm not at all fishing for spoilers. Just assembling the clues.

 

[Michel Van]

Above post says it wasn't.

And I'm not at all fishing for spoilers. Just assembling the clues.

I missed that lower part of that Post !
Still the Luftwaffe need a operational long-range Heavy Bomber fleet in 1944
and long range escort fighters

 

[Osakadave]

I missed that lower part of that Post !
Still the Luftwaffe need a operational long-range Heavy Bomber fleet in 1944
and long range escort fighters

No worries. And yes.

 

[Emperor Norton I]

By this point I can say the name 'Amerika Bomber' out loud, yes? And that's all I'll say because I assume you that have read the update have picked up on that part.

 

[Emperor Norton I]

There are a few of these vignettes I have planned. The next one will either be the follow up the 1944, or the follow up to 1964. I have yet to start writing them, and they may come next week given the time it took to write the last update and a short break I will take before writing.

 

[Michel Van]

By this point I can say the name 'Amerika Bomber' out loud, yes? And that's all I'll say because I assume you that have read the update have picked up on that part.

Take the Messerschmitt Me 264 is best for this Scenario
it was design from the begin as Strategic long range Bomber, not as conversion of Airliner or from medium bomber
The prototype flew in December 1942.
bomb load was impressive 3,000 kg on range of 8,947 miles (Germany New York and back)
or 13,200 kg at 5,343 miles but that is one way trip to east coast of USA

But the Luftwaffe was experiment successful with Aerial refueling
So why not Ju-390 tanker for refueling the Me 264 on return trip ?

Still problem no long-range fighter
the Luftwaffe was experiment on aircraft towing another
do some of Bomber could towed a heavy fighter aircraft to target were they disconnect
another idea was the Parasite Fighter carry on back of Amerika bomber (or towing)
The Messerschmitt Me 328 was design for this role
after release the Me 328 would defend it's Me 264 mothership, then follow over Atlantic
were the pilot ditch near U-boat what take the pilot

 

[Emperor Norton I]

Take the Messerschmitt Me 264 is best for this Scenario
it was design from the begin as Strategic long range Bomber, not as conversion of Airliner or from medium bomber
The prototype flew in December 1942.
bomb load was impressive 3,000 kg on range of 8,947 miles (Germany New York and back)
or 13,200 kg at 5,343 miles but that is one way trip to east coast of USA

But the Luftwaffe was experiment successful with Aerial refueling
So why not Ju-390 tanker for refueling the Me 264 on return trip ?

Still problem no long-range fighter
the Luftwaffe was experiment on aircraft towing another
do some of Bomber could towed a heavy fighter aircraft to target were they disconnect
another idea was the Parasite Fighter carry on back of Amerika bomber (or towing)
The Messerschmitt Me 328 was design for this role
after release the Me 328 would defend it's Me 264 mothership, then follow over Atlantic
were the pilot ditch near U-boat what take the pilot

In my mind's eye, I have a picture of what plane it was, but I would rather leave it up to your imaginations. I may cover it in the future, but for the moment a great deal of my intent is to let your own imagination fill in certain gaps, until and unless I cover it. As for the long range fighter issue, I didn't intend for the bombers to have a fighter escort. However, perhaps you could convince me of it.

 

[Vahktang]

Umh, Nazis in the Azores. No need fo a Germany to Brooklyn plane. Possible this is a Doolittle type raid, though.

 

[Michel Van]

In my mind's eye, I have a picture of what plane it was, but I would rather leave it up to your imaginations. I may cover it in the future, but for the moment a great deal of my intent is to let your own imagination fill in certain gaps, until and unless I cover it. As for the long range fighter issue, I didn't intend for the bombers to have a fighter escort. However, perhaps you could convince me of it.

You need escort fighters, USAAF will send everything into air once there Radar pickup the German Bomber fleet

Umh, Nazis in the Azores. No need fo a Germany to Brooklyn plane. Possible this is a Doolittle type raid, though.

This was one concept the Luftwaffe study, the medium range Bombers fly to East coast drop there bomb, then ditch the Bombers in atlantic near by german U-boat
but that for me just intolerable waste of hardware...

 

[Emperor Norton I]

The issue is the Me 328 has design flaws, and I can find no other mention of a similar long range escort fighter. I don't expect the bombers to necessarily survive. A sentence that was cut out was Johnny noticing P-51 fighters racing towards the river. Hitler was obsessed with the idea of New York on fire. I think he'd make the sacrifice for the psychological impact on both himself and the United States. Whether any bombers survive at all is another matter.

In a counterpoint to that, I must stress that the point of this vignette was to not focus on the details and literally the up-in-the-sky elements, but rather to focus on the human impact. It's important for it to be believable that this happened, but the finer details are not as important as the fact that a normal day was changed in a matter of minutes, everything was ruined, and there's no changing that ruination, and this person has to go forward from here. It's trauma. That reflects the horror of atomic war later on. Americans have never dealt with this before. They've only seen in it movies. This literally hits home.

 

[Penny for The Guy]

"Suburb" = below the urban area = "undercity"?
Requiring registry for entry.
A "Korean War" with atomics.
Nazis in the Azores which OTL belong to Portugal.
The Amerika Bomber, at least 21 of them.
DaSilva graduates from HS about 1947 even with destruction of his neighborhood and family in 1944, and is drafted into military service. No mention of who is attacking Berlin (the US hitting back 20 years later?) or who is dropping atomics on the US (and they must have lots to afford three Big Ones on San Diego in 1964).
The suits in the image leading off appear to be biohazard suits, or perhaps just protection from real bad nerve gas (drop touch skin, you die horribly).

Back to the Suburb -- For some reason, I envision "Topeka" in A Boy and His Dog.

Oh, definitely my interest. Delicious possibilities.

 

[BlueTrousers]

The issue is the Me 328 has design flaws, and I can find no other mention of a similar long range escort fighter. I don't expect the bombers to necessarily survive. A sentence that was cut out was Johnny noticing P-51 fighters racing towards the river. Hitler was obsessed with the idea of New York on fire. I think he'd make the sacrifice for the psychological impact on both himself and the United States. Whether any bombers survive at all is another matter.

With New York being a coastal target, warning would be limited... if they've got the range, I'd give the bombers a fair chance of getting back to the Azores. They'd take losses, but most would live to tell the tale.

"Suburb" = below the urban area = "undercity"?

My thinking exactly. Shades of RAND's 1958 civil defence study that proposed shelters 800 feet under Manhattan for the island's entire population - estimated to take 2.5 years and 2.7 billion dollars in then-year dollars, more likely 25 years and 15-20 billion dollars.

 

[Michel Van]

In a counterpoint to that, I must stress that the point of this vignette was to not focus on the details and literally the up-in-the-sky elements, but rather to focus on the human impact. It's important for it to be believable that this happened, but the finer details are not as important as the fact that a normal day was changed in a matter of minutes, everything was ruined, and there's no changing that ruination, and this person has to go forward from here. It's trauma. That reflects the horror of atomic war later on. Americans have never dealt with this before. They've only seen in it movies. This literally hits home.

Ok let focus on impact, For 1940s Americans it's greater shock as Pearl Harbor, this is more 9/11 !
For first time, they are hit on main land, not remote island in Pacific.
Next to panic and fear mixed hate and will for revenge
The White House must react on this, it's must protect USA coast line for further Attack from Germany by Bomber or U-boat.
Also the people will scream for revenge

So what are the option ?
That in 1944 a German bomber Fleet manage to reach US east coast
lead to speculation that Luftwaffe still got advantages in Europe Airspace.
So USAAF has to gain the air superiority over Europe !

Now to hit with what ?
Like i speculate that Luftwaffe got superiority over Europe
means USAAF Carpet bombing like OTL have not yet happen.
but carpet bombing counter with carpet bombing ?
Hell no, this is America, they hit harder back, far more harder

left only this option
To drop the Atomic Bomb on German Cities

 

[King Augeas]

What atomic bomb, maybe? It's not clear what's happened to Britain (but Nazis on the Azores suggests that it's bad for the US) and thus whether the Frisch–Peierls memorandum made it to the US, or ever existed in the first place...

 

[Emperor Norton I]

I never said how the Germans are on the Azores: How long they've had it or how they got onto it.
"I suggest you don't worry about this sort of thing, and just enjoy yourself. (to the home audience) That goes for you all, too."

 

[Emperor Norton I]

Honestly, I'll give you the option: The Azores or a retcon to France? Honestly, I didn't know if the capability of the Amerika bomber would allow for the distance from France to America. The banally evil Klaus can be describing the pleasantness of rural France with very little modification. And it would amp up the banality of evil that your people rape, pillage and torture, but the buildings are pretty and what a wonderful way of life...while over your shoulder, someone living that way of life is having their face bashed in.

 

[Geon]

Honestly, I'll give you the option: The Azores or a retcon to France? Honestly, I didn't know if the capability of the Amerika bomber would allow for the distance from France to America.

Would Norway be an option instead of these two? I remember I used it as a basing point in my TL a while ago.