Okay... in that case my recommendation is for the ROCN to have three submarines rather than six, which would be easier from a crewing perspective. A good case in point is that the JMSDF from memory used a former Gato class submarine as a training platform prior to re establishing the submarine arm.
Alternate Republic of China Navy- ideas and discussion
- Thread starter abc123
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Okay... in that case my recommendation is for the ROCN to have three submarines rather than six, which would be easier from a crewing perspective. A good case in point is that the JMSDF from memory used a former Gato class submarine as a training platform prior to re establishing the submarine arm.
I think the fact that the U.S. is giving the ROC warships would logically mean that the ROC is going to be able to use them.
abc123
Banned
Well I'm not so sure about Vietnam. In OTL, China occupied North Vietnam in 1945, but returned the territory to the French, in exchange for French return of all concessions back to China.
So, if we take that they would do that in TTL, Ho Chi Minh will not be pleased at all...
Sorry for the delay, I was on a business trip last couple of days...
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abc123
Banned
Well, if the 'Muricans gave them 6 submarines, it doesn't means that all six are operational at once. First only one, than two, so in a few years 3 or four etc...
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abc123
Banned
Let's go on:
1951
This year brought major changes for the RoC Navy, they finaly managed to have all US-donated ships operational.
Naval Officer Candidates School started to roll first new/old officers. OCS was intended to be some sort of fast training for current serving RoC officers.
Also, Naval Academy had their second generation of cadets graduated.
China also started talks with the US to have one or two of their senior officers enrolled annually in Naval War College from 1952 or 1953.
1951
This year brought major changes for the RoC Navy, they finaly managed to have all US-donated ships operational.
Naval Officer Candidates School started to roll first new/old officers. OCS was intended to be some sort of fast training for current serving RoC officers.
Also, Naval Academy had their second generation of cadets graduated.
China also started talks with the US to have one or two of their senior officers enrolled annually in Naval War College from 1952 or 1953.
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This is a really cool thread. One thing to keep in mind, the Chinese Navy did have some limited experience building and operating light cruiser class (or large destroyer class) vessels so they are not complete and total neophytes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Aurora_(12)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_cruiser_Ping_Hai
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_cruiser_Ning_Hai
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_cruiser_Yat_Sen
You may find this useful too:
https://www.cna.org/sites/default/files/research/5500014400.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Aurora_(12)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_cruiser_Ping_Hai
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_cruiser_Ning_Hai
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_cruiser_Yat_Sen
You may find this useful too:
https://www.cna.org/sites/default/files/research/5500014400.pdf
abc123
Banned
RoC Naval Bases and organisation:
Link for map:
http://www.dumpt.com/img/viewer.php?file=qyoehjbppe2ynykrcveg.png
1- Weihai ( homeport of 12 Admirable-class minesweepers-patrol boats and 6 Tacoma-class frigates, also a Naval Air Station )
2- Qingdao ( Naval Officer Cadets School and 6 Rudderow-class destroyer escorts )
3- Nanjing ( Naval General Staff )
4- Ningbo ( Naval Academy, 6 LSM-1 and 6 Gleaves-class destroyers )
5- Taipei ( Naval Air Station and 6 Salmon-class submarines )
6- Amoy ( Naval Midshipmen School )
7- Guangzhou ( 6 Tacoma-class frigates )
8- Sanya ( Naval Air Station )
9- small garrison in Paracel Islands ( about a platoon of RoC Marines ) in Woody/Yongxing Island
10- small garrison in Spratly Islands ( about a platoon of RoC Marines ) in Itu Aba/Taiping Island
Navy is divided in three operational commands:
Northern Command- Qingdao
Eastern Command- Ningbo
Southern Command- Guangzhou
So, we have:
Naval General Staff
Fleet Command
Northern Command
Eastern Command
Southern Command
Training Command
Support Command
Also, RoC Marines are independent command under Naval General Staff.
Link for map:
http://www.dumpt.com/img/viewer.php?file=qyoehjbppe2ynykrcveg.png
1- Weihai ( homeport of 12 Admirable-class minesweepers-patrol boats and 6 Tacoma-class frigates, also a Naval Air Station )
2- Qingdao ( Naval Officer Cadets School and 6 Rudderow-class destroyer escorts )
3- Nanjing ( Naval General Staff )
4- Ningbo ( Naval Academy, 6 LSM-1 and 6 Gleaves-class destroyers )
5- Taipei ( Naval Air Station and 6 Salmon-class submarines )
6- Amoy ( Naval Midshipmen School )
7- Guangzhou ( 6 Tacoma-class frigates )
8- Sanya ( Naval Air Station )
9- small garrison in Paracel Islands ( about a platoon of RoC Marines ) in Woody/Yongxing Island
10- small garrison in Spratly Islands ( about a platoon of RoC Marines ) in Itu Aba/Taiping Island
Navy is divided in three operational commands:
Northern Command- Qingdao
Eastern Command- Ningbo
Southern Command- Guangzhou
So, we have:
Naval General Staff
Fleet Command
Northern Command
Eastern Command
Southern Command
Training Command
Support Command
Also, RoC Marines are independent command under Naval General Staff.
abc123
Banned
In the closing months of 1951 Chinese Marines landed in Senkaku/Diaoyu islands and established a small base there. That was a maneuvre to make Chinese position in negotiations in San Francisco stronger.
*** OTL Peace of San Francisco was signed in 1951, here, because of Chinese participation negotiations lasted for a few more months, so the Treaty was signed in July 1952.***
By the Treaty, China gained Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands, Spratly, Pratas and Paracel islands in exchange for Chinese agreement for a peace treaty with Japan.
*** OTL Peace of San Francisco was signed in 1951, here, because of Chinese participation negotiations lasted for a few more months, so the Treaty was signed in July 1952.***
By the Treaty, China gained Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands, Spratly, Pratas and Paracel islands in exchange for Chinese agreement for a peace treaty with Japan.
With the acquisition of island territories in the South and East China Seas this early, this version of China is a nation with significant maritime interests. The demands for a navy capable of protecting those interests are going to begin very early.
PRC spies were a huge problem in OTL Taiwan, they had people in every branch of government and military. If you want them to keep getting assistance and advanced weaponry from the US you need to some how prevent this from happening so that they would be seen as more trustworthy and reliable. Maybe a bigger counter spy operation from the ROC, strong secret police and intelligence services that are very good at screening people and finding them before they get too far; or both.
abc123
Banned
Well, they WILL have such strong security services, but at the end of day, people in PRC and RoC are the same nation, so naturally, you can't have better spies in PRC than Chinese from RoC and vice versa...
Also, one of conditions of Armistice was one year of free population transfer, so who wanted to go from PRC he went to RoC and vice versa... OFC, significant number of them ( in both sides ) were spies...
abc123
Banned
Your picture before was bugging me, it was colour and the writing was in Korean so I had a go editing it.
Thanks. Obviously, I don't know Chinese, and did not want to mess with such details...
abc123
Banned
Well the mere fact that Taiwan is a part of China will lead to that. But, this will not prevent challenges in South China Sea and in Senkakus, but not yet...
Depends on how many butterflies that you want... was Vietnam united under communist rule in 1945? If so I would imagine the KMT may very well support a VNQDD insurgency.
Alternatively if the French are still in Indochina, I think the KMT would push for a negotiated outcome. So I would look for in this scenario a unity government.
Alternatively if the French are still in Indochina, I think the KMT would push for a negotiated outcome. So I would look for in this scenario a unity government.
The VNQDD was basically destroyed by 1930, after the Yen Bai mutiny. Sure, it's possible that it may regenerate, but the Viet Minh coming to power in decolonised Vietnam is still likely. Without needing Mao's weapons supplies though, it is likely they are either less communist or less overtly communist. Image means a lot when independence movements have to do business with the US or their allies.