A Tale of Vietnam: The Dragon and the Phoenix Mk 2
- Thread starter La Rouge Beret
- Start date
Essentially this draws in Vietnam and Thailand to a greater degree than OTL. Plus there is the introduction of a volunteer PLA force. I have been trying to work out who the general would be, I consider Peng De Huai but I am 50 / 50 as I think he may be too senior.
This will almost be an analogue of the South African bush / border wars to a higher intensity.
Great work man. It was a bit slow with this remake but its getting a lot better keep up the good work and i also liked how you started putting in dialogue.
Maybe we can have a conversation with the emperor of Vietnam and the prime minister.
Dialogue isn't my strong point so I will keep trying.
Thanks for reading and commenting.
Chapter 13: The Royal Vietnamese Air Force & the French Miss
The Royal Vietnamese Air Force and the French Lady
The history of the Vietnamese Air Force and its modern shape can best be attributed to a single man General Nguyen Van Hinh, who was a French Lieutenant General and had commanded an air group in Italy during the Second World War. It was his experience in the assistance that an air force could play in shaping the battlefield for the army. Although seen as possessing openly close bonds with the French, his pragmatism won out.
His appointment as the Chief of the Air Force was seen as a way of uniting those that had previously fought with the French and those against them. It was to be a prudent move, ever the opportunist he organized the remaining Japanese aircraft into two squadrons for self defence with one based in Hanoi and the second near Haiphong. Both squadrons were required to send detachments to Saigon or as needed. Noting the benign tactical condition of having a friendly neighbor to the North caused the government to not allocate sufficient funds to modernize the aircraft in use until after the fall of the Nationalist regime in 1949.
The emphasis on a tactical air force was borne by the realization the military due to the problems with roads and inability to reinforce people quickly. Air supremacy and the ability to act as flying artillery would be critical to any successful engagement. This had been illustrated both with the liberation of Vietnam and the British Army involvement in Burma during WW II.
Although air superiority was emphasized the ability to effectively and accurately support their soldiers was gradually implemented as both time, money and training allowed. This also allowed the 1st squadron Royal Vietnamese Air Force to deploy to the Republic of Korea under the auspices of the UN. There Ki – 43 Hayabusas were very nearly worn out by the time of their deployment and were replaced by Vought Corsairs. Although the Corsairs best matched the requirements to be able to conduct air superiority and close air support. The sobriquet of the “Angel of the Okinawa” was replaced by the title of the Angel of Moune Phine.
But the emphasis placed on the ability to conduct tactical and strategic lift, due to the paucity of roads any pilots were used by the National Airline were automatically commissioned with the Air Force as reservists. Although when the DC – 3’s were replaced with Caribous this also assisted.
The first jet aircraft of the RVNAF consisted of a single squadron of the North American F-86 Sabre purchased under the Foreign Military Sales in 1955 and were seen by many as a reward for the Kingdom’s participation in the Korean War. However as the 1950’s progressed it became increasingly obvious that although the Sabre was an incredibly capable day fighter, it had become superseded with the introduction of the Mig 19 and Mig 21 into service with the People’s Liberation Air Force. This obsolescence became apparent with several reconnaissance overflights across RVNAF air fields in 1959.
A replacement fighter program was launched to regain air superiority and considered several aircraft including the predecessor to the Northrop F – 5 the N-156F, the F – 104 Starfighter, the English Electric Lightning and belatedly the Dassault Mirage III. The F – 5 and the Lightning were both ruled out due to their performance of either being inadequate with the case of the F – 5 or having inadequate range for the Lightning.
The final two competitors consisted of the Dassault Mirage III and the Lockheed F-104 Starfighter. Both aircraft were supported by their respective governments, not only for the potential sales but also for the likely combat experience to be gained. Despite the Mirage III being superior in most respects, the Starfighter seemed to be the leading contender for the program. However evidence of massive bribes from Lockheed to the Vietnamese was uncovered by Mr Thomas Fowler of the London Times and the Minister of Defence and the Chief of the Air Force General Nguyen were forced to resign. The scandal caused the government to reverse their position and the ‘French Lady’ from their first delivery in 1965 and involvement with the second Laotian emergency proudly guarded the skies of Vietnam for close to three decades.
Dogfights – Season 2, Episode 4: An Auspicious start
Good Evening viewers, I am standing outside of the Yen Bai airbase and looking at the Mirage III positioned here as the gate guardian. This is the same aircraft that was flown by the former Chief of the Air Force General Nguyen Van Coc. We interviewed the former Chief of the Air Force several days ago about the start of his successful liaison with the French lady on that fateful day on 30 April 1965.
We had ferried the first four Mirage III’s to Yen Bai a week prior and were still integrating the ‘French Lady’ into our Air Defence system. Due to the limitations of our Sabre squadrons the Chinese Air Force had taken to sending several aircraft to penetrate our air defence system.
It was 8:15 a.m. from memory when a quartet of Mig 19’s were detected by Ground Control and myself and my wingman First Lieutenant Gao Quang Dung (later a Brigadier General). We vectored to meet the MiG and we were set up in a beautiful position. I was the first to establish eye contact and advised Lieutenant Gao.
The four Mig 19’s separated into two pairs, and Gao and myself took the higher pair. Gao pursued but did not close, and I assumed the lead closing to missile range. I fired my Sidewinder from around 800 meters directly astern of the Mig. The sidewinder detonated close to the MiG, and I was certain that he was fatally damaged. I continued scanning the sky, and then closed toward another Mig and fired a snap shot with my cannon but missed.
I then separated from the engagement to regain altitude and speed. I confirmed that I was clean and and realised that I had lost Gao in the general melee. Realising this I returned to the fray and saw a pair of MiGs, went in after them, closed to a range of 200 meters and shot off all my remaining ammunition. I literally peppered his underside and he speared in, with the remaining Mig deciding that discretion was the better part of valour and departed.
Our controller instructed us to return to base and despite my success I just felt frustrated as we had let two Migs escape. But after that day the Chinese were certainly more wary of straying into our airspace.
The history of the Vietnamese Air Force and its modern shape can best be attributed to a single man General Nguyen Van Hinh, who was a French Lieutenant General and had commanded an air group in Italy during the Second World War. It was his experience in the assistance that an air force could play in shaping the battlefield for the army. Although seen as possessing openly close bonds with the French, his pragmatism won out.
His appointment as the Chief of the Air Force was seen as a way of uniting those that had previously fought with the French and those against them. It was to be a prudent move, ever the opportunist he organized the remaining Japanese aircraft into two squadrons for self defence with one based in Hanoi and the second near Haiphong. Both squadrons were required to send detachments to Saigon or as needed. Noting the benign tactical condition of having a friendly neighbor to the North caused the government to not allocate sufficient funds to modernize the aircraft in use until after the fall of the Nationalist regime in 1949.
The emphasis on a tactical air force was borne by the realization the military due to the problems with roads and inability to reinforce people quickly. Air supremacy and the ability to act as flying artillery would be critical to any successful engagement. This had been illustrated both with the liberation of Vietnam and the British Army involvement in Burma during WW II.
Although air superiority was emphasized the ability to effectively and accurately support their soldiers was gradually implemented as both time, money and training allowed. This also allowed the 1st squadron Royal Vietnamese Air Force to deploy to the Republic of Korea under the auspices of the UN. There Ki – 43 Hayabusas were very nearly worn out by the time of their deployment and were replaced by Vought Corsairs. Although the Corsairs best matched the requirements to be able to conduct air superiority and close air support. The sobriquet of the “Angel of the Okinawa” was replaced by the title of the Angel of Moune Phine.
But the emphasis placed on the ability to conduct tactical and strategic lift, due to the paucity of roads any pilots were used by the National Airline were automatically commissioned with the Air Force as reservists. Although when the DC – 3’s were replaced with Caribous this also assisted.
The first jet aircraft of the RVNAF consisted of a single squadron of the North American F-86 Sabre purchased under the Foreign Military Sales in 1955 and were seen by many as a reward for the Kingdom’s participation in the Korean War. However as the 1950’s progressed it became increasingly obvious that although the Sabre was an incredibly capable day fighter, it had become superseded with the introduction of the Mig 19 and Mig 21 into service with the People’s Liberation Air Force. This obsolescence became apparent with several reconnaissance overflights across RVNAF air fields in 1959.
A replacement fighter program was launched to regain air superiority and considered several aircraft including the predecessor to the Northrop F – 5 the N-156F, the F – 104 Starfighter, the English Electric Lightning and belatedly the Dassault Mirage III. The F – 5 and the Lightning were both ruled out due to their performance of either being inadequate with the case of the F – 5 or having inadequate range for the Lightning.
The final two competitors consisted of the Dassault Mirage III and the Lockheed F-104 Starfighter. Both aircraft were supported by their respective governments, not only for the potential sales but also for the likely combat experience to be gained. Despite the Mirage III being superior in most respects, the Starfighter seemed to be the leading contender for the program. However evidence of massive bribes from Lockheed to the Vietnamese was uncovered by Mr Thomas Fowler of the London Times and the Minister of Defence and the Chief of the Air Force General Nguyen were forced to resign. The scandal caused the government to reverse their position and the ‘French Lady’ from their first delivery in 1965 and involvement with the second Laotian emergency proudly guarded the skies of Vietnam for close to three decades.
Dogfights – Season 2, Episode 4: An Auspicious start
Good Evening viewers, I am standing outside of the Yen Bai airbase and looking at the Mirage III positioned here as the gate guardian. This is the same aircraft that was flown by the former Chief of the Air Force General Nguyen Van Coc. We interviewed the former Chief of the Air Force several days ago about the start of his successful liaison with the French lady on that fateful day on 30 April 1965.
We had ferried the first four Mirage III’s to Yen Bai a week prior and were still integrating the ‘French Lady’ into our Air Defence system. Due to the limitations of our Sabre squadrons the Chinese Air Force had taken to sending several aircraft to penetrate our air defence system.
It was 8:15 a.m. from memory when a quartet of Mig 19’s were detected by Ground Control and myself and my wingman First Lieutenant Gao Quang Dung (later a Brigadier General). We vectored to meet the MiG and we were set up in a beautiful position. I was the first to establish eye contact and advised Lieutenant Gao.
The four Mig 19’s separated into two pairs, and Gao and myself took the higher pair. Gao pursued but did not close, and I assumed the lead closing to missile range. I fired my Sidewinder from around 800 meters directly astern of the Mig. The sidewinder detonated close to the MiG, and I was certain that he was fatally damaged. I continued scanning the sky, and then closed toward another Mig and fired a snap shot with my cannon but missed.
I then separated from the engagement to regain altitude and speed. I confirmed that I was clean and and realised that I had lost Gao in the general melee. Realising this I returned to the fray and saw a pair of MiGs, went in after them, closed to a range of 200 meters and shot off all my remaining ammunition. I literally peppered his underside and he speared in, with the remaining Mig deciding that discretion was the better part of valour and departed.
Our controller instructed us to return to base and despite my success I just felt frustrated as we had let two Migs escape. But after that day the Chinese were certainly more wary of straying into our airspace.
Mixed to say the least they were forced to retreat further inland to their sanctuaries in Laos and also across the border into the PRC. The PRC increase their supply of the Vietnamese communists to create a buffer between themselves and VNQD Vietnam. And it continues to spiral until another status quo ante situation develops.
Nice update.
Lady J
Thanks for the patience with waiting for an update, my next one should be in two months following completing my final professional accreditation module, cannot wait until that is over.
My next update I was thinking of focusing on veterans having several flashbacks to the second Laotian conflict or something completely left field being the Vung Tau sevens, this timeline's equivalent to the Hong Kong 7's.
I thought I should formally do this, but I am ending this TL.
At this stage I am considering whether to reboot this for its third instalment or to merge several of the themes and people into a rebooted Angkor Resurgent TL.
At this stage I am considering whether to reboot this for its third instalment or to merge several of the themes and people into a rebooted Angkor Resurgent TL.