A Different 1939

One thing people forget is that this also applied in spades to the *Soviet* version of WWII just as much as it did the German. In the Soviet version Lend-Lease was given short-shrift (for understandable propaganda reasons. It's much less easy to convince people of the superiority of Communism if Communism rode to power on US-issue trucks and used US-model radios). Zhukov and company had their memoirs edited to reflect the ebb and flow of Soviet power politics, with Stalin's role being one day that of a living God Mode Sue, the next being that of the scapegoat.

The Soviets did a monstrous injustice to their own soldiers by refusing to write about some 40% of Eastern Front battles where their armies wound up in major flops. The most archetypal examples of this are Polar Star and Operation Mars. This is also why accounts of the Leningrad region focused on the horrors of the Siege and not the fighting, as with the exceptions of Tikhvin and Operation Spark most of the battles there are an inglorious example of the USSR having its own version of Monte Cassino in the Siniavo region and both the Nazis and Soviets squeezed by lousy terrain and logistics leading to a battle much more akin to WWI than WWII. Which of course would be complicated history and not propaganda.

This is why it took until 1991 for much of the real history of the Soviet war to come out, and why so much of what we know now about that is due to David Glantz: Moscow was very, very good at lying through its teeth about *its* war and having won it, it was in a much better position to get away with the blatant lies. I would also note that Guderian's record as a blatant liar on the Nazi side was rivaled only by some of the Soviet memoirs on *their* side. Ironically the original version of Zhukov's memoirs was as far as WWII memoirs went actually fairly more close to events than most. However that version had to wait until 1991 to come out.

Edit-And of course it should also be noted that *US* WWII memoirs aren't necessarily reliable or truthful, either. War memoirs should always be treated with a grain of salt, as they are almost invariably written with agendas. Never take any statements in them as 100% accurate, and trust, but verify is the bare minimum of standards to be applied to them, regardless of authors.
 
You have proposed something that has a remarkably low level of probability. Individuals are pointing out the flaws in your scenario. That is how this Board works.

You are reacting to these very reasonable replies with varying levels of hostility. That is NOT how this Board works.

I warned you about the insults. Clearly you didn't take that seriously. Unfortunate.

Hopefully you will take this seriously.

Kicked for a week. When you come back, bring your manners.
Thank you sir many thanks for an 'interesting' thread guys
 
OK, where is the real BlairWitch and what have you done with him!!! :D:D:D

sigged :)

Manstein was decisively defeated during the Rumianstev operation... and he whilst his troops did perform the best of any German unit at Kursk, his whole going along with the plan in the first place (as opposed to Model threatening resignations) speaks to him not reading the situation correctly

Those are the two main blemishes on his career; the man was still arguably the most effective general in the 20th century
 
I just woke up, and am therefore late to the party, and I know the OP is now kicked, but to answer his scenario about Argentina having F22s...

The US would probably just go ahead and cruise missile the fuck out of all of their airbases. We wouldn't even need to worry about "aces" who could shoot down all of our F22s.


Wow. A mature outlook. Cool.

This may be the start of a beautiful friendship.

It is nice when new members are reasonable and willing to discuss rather than fight.


***********

And I'll be damned, my 1000th post!
 
I just woke up, and am therefore late to the party, and I know the OP is now kicked, but to answer his scenario about Argentina having F22s...

The US would probably just go ahead and cruise missile the fuck out of all of their airbases. We wouldn't even need to worry about "aces" who could shoot down all of our F22s.




It is nice when new members are reasonable and willing to discuss rather than fight.


***********

And I'll be damned, my 1000th post!
It is:D
And especially when they understand logistics...:D
 
I just woke up, and am therefore late to the party, and I know the OP is now kicked, but to answer his scenario about Argentina having F22s...

The US would probably just go ahead and cruise missile the fuck out of all of their airbases. We wouldn't even need to worry about "aces" who could shoot down all of our F22s.




It is nice when new members are reasonable and willing to discuss rather than fight.

***********

And I'll be damned, my 1000th post!
I had trouble with that one when I read it because I was as gobsmacked by the idea of Argentina being able to afford 200 F-22's as I was by Poland in 1939 affording 400 P-51 analoges.

Where did they get the maufacturing, where did they get the technological base, where did they get the training base,...and on and on.

I dunno.

Amatures disscuss tactics, dilletents disscuss strategy, proffesionals disscuss logistics. And oh, yeah where does the idea come from the the other side would suddenly be quaking in their shoes about less than one air wing's worth of advanced fighters?
 
I feel this thread should be renamed to more accurately reflect its contents. Or, at least, so I can make a cheap joke now that the actual discussion part is over. And we've all bonded through this collective experience.

How about:
My Little Poland: Radar is Magic
 
I feel this thread should be renamed to more accurately reflect its contents. Or, at least, so I can make a cheap joke now that the actual discussion part is over. And we've all bonded through this collective experience.

How about:
My Little Poland: Radar is Magic
(Rib aching laughter) Oh man that is so wrong, you're my new hero, I love you.
 
I feel this thread should be renamed to more accurately reflect its contents. Or, at least, so I can make a cheap joke now that the actual discussion part is over. And we've all bonded through this collective experience.

How about:
My Little Poland: Radar is Magic

You have won this thread. Jolly good show.
 
I leave the thread for four pages and it turns to Frisian Germans flying F-22s against Argentine F-22s with Russian engines, all illuminating their radars, but the Polish Argentines have two aces. The Movie version had 1 flying ace in a P-40 and the assistance of the FAA, commanded by Angelina. I think I liked the Movie better.

The Wermacht is met at the border by the Polish First Quartermaster Corps, and is turned back because they don't have the correct requisition forms.

imagesCASMCFGX.jpg
 
I feel this thread should be renamed to more accurately reflect its contents. Or, at least, so I can make a cheap joke now that the actual discussion part is over. And we've all bonded through this collective experience.

How about:
My Little Poland: Radar is Magic
Well that is the best ending for that thread that could possibly be conceived, combined with the poems.I believe that you may consider your self the winner;)
Of course having a winner implies a looser does it not?
 
I leave the thread for four pages and it turns to Frisian Germans flying F-22s against Argentine F-22s with Russian engines, all illuminating their radars, but the Polish Argentines have two aces. The Movie version had 1 flying ace in a P-40 and the assistance of the FAA, commanded by Angelina. I think I liked the Movie better.

The Wermacht is met at the border by the Polish First Quartermaster Corps, and is turned back because they don't have the correct requisition forms.
I think that may be the clearest grasp of this thread I have ever heard, and doesn't that tell you something about this thread?
 
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