Actually it really isn’t unlikely. It’s not until you have a few generations of inbreeding, that healthy kids become unlikely.
Alternative Monarchs and Aristocrats Timelines
- Thread starter The Gybson Boy
- Start date
Actually it really isn’t unlikely. It’s not until you have a few generations of inbreeding, that healthy kids become unlikely.
Ordinarylittleme - Maria Manuela of Portugal lives much longer - Maria Manuela I, Queen of Portugal (1578 - 1605)
POD: Maria Manuela of Portugal lives much longer.
Queen Maria Manuela I of Portugal
House of Aviz
4 August 1578 - 29 January 1605
Other Titles: Princess of Asturias, Duchess of Milan, Queen of Spain
Queen Maria Manuela I of Portugal
House of Aviz
4 August 1578 - 29 January 1605
Date of Birth: 15 October 1527, Coimbra
Date of Death: 29 January 1605, El Escorial
Burial: 1 February 1605, El Escorial
Husband: Philip II of Spain (m. 1543, d. 1598)
Issue:
1. Charles, Prince of Asturias and Girona
2. Catherine, Queen of Poland
3. Joan, Holy Roman Empress
4. Philip, King of Spain and Portugal
5. Maria, Queen of France
Father: John III of Portugal
Mother: Catherine of Austria
Religion: Catholicism
History:
Despite her prestigious background and glittering prospects, Maria Manuela of Portugal was very much a woman of her era, content to leave political maneuvers to her husband. (In letters to her mother, she proclaimed herself to be fortunate to have married so charming a prince.) Philip enjoyed hosting chivalric tournaments to entertain his wife. she was a soft-spoken musician who read extensively and played social games with her courtiers. A devoted and loving mother, she bore five children and unusually allowed for all of them to receive similar educations, regardless of age or gender. It is known that she believed that religious unity was necessary for a peaceful public life and explicitly rejected the idea of religious toleration. She even advocated for a state church, though her husband rejected this, and contemporary adversary travelers criticized her regime as bigoted, intolerant and superstitious.
Upon the death of her unmarried and childless nephew Sebastian, she succeeded smoothly as queen of Portugal. She chose to work with parliament and advisers she could trust to tell her the truth. During her life traveling with her husband, Maria was reportedly ill at ease in a country which was not entirely Catholic, and she surrounded herself with a circle of strictly Catholic courtiers, many of whom she had brought with her from Portugal. The outward celebration of saints and holy relics formed no major part of her personal devotions, which she rather expressed in the Mass, prayer, confession and penance. She continued cultivating the library of her mother, Catherine of Austria, and also preserved and expanded her collection of porcelain. She sponsored many building projects like her half-aunt, also named Maria.
As Queen consort of Spain, she was given a great representational role by Philip and often in his company, participating in ceremonies, parties, and receptions at his side, and performing representational tasks. She was popular among the public for her beauty and charitable personality. Upon her death, rumors circulated that she had been poisoned; the rumors were born after the apparent discovery during her embalming that there was a black growth on her heart that might have been caused by poisoning. Nowadays it is suspected it was just cancer.
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@ordinarylittleme Add her reign dates after the housePOD: Maria Manuela of Portugal lives much longer.Other Titles: Princess of Asturias, Duchess of Milan, Queen of Spain
Queen Maria Manuela I of Portugal
House of Aviz
Date of Birth: 15 October 1527, Coimbra
Date of Death: 29 January 1605, El Escorial
Burial: 1 February 1605, El Escorial
Husband: Philip II of Spain (m. 1543, d. 1598)
Issue:
1. Charles, Prince of Asturias and Girona
2. Catherine, Queen of Poland
3. Joan, Holy Roman Empress
4. Philip, King of Spain and Portugal
5. Maria, Queen of France
Father: John III of Portugal
Mother: Catherine of Austria
Religion: Catholicism
History:
Despite her prestigious background and glittering prospects, Maria Manuela of Portugal was very much a woman of her era, content to leave political maneuvers to her husband. (In letters to her mother, she proclaimed herself to be fortunate to have married so charming a prince.) Philip enjoyed hosting chivalric tournaments to entertain his wife. she was a soft-spoken musician who read extensively and played social games with her courtiers. A devoted and loving mother, she bore five children and unusually allowed for all of them to receive similar educations, regardless of age or gender. It is known that she believed that religious unity was necessary for a peaceful public life and explicitly rejected the idea of religious toleration. She even advocated for a state church, though her husband rejected this, and contemporary adversary travelers criticized her regime as bigoted, intolerant and superstitious.
Upon the death of her unmarried and childless nephew Sebastian, she succeeded smoothly as queen of Portugal. She chose to work with parliament and advisers she could trust to tell her the truth. During her life traveling with her husband, Maria was reportedly ill at ease in a country which was not entirely Catholic, and she surrounded herself with a circle of strictly Catholic courtiers, many of whom she had brought with her from Portugal. The outward celebration of saints and holy relics formed no major part of her personal devotions, which she rather expressed in the Mass, prayer, confession and penance. She continued cultivating the library of her mother, Catherine of Austria, and also preserved and expanded her collection of porcelain. She sponsored many building projects like her half-sister, also named Maria.
As Queen consort of Spain, she was given a great representational role by Philip and often in his company, participating in ceremonies, parties, and receptions at his side, and performing representational tasks. She was popular among the public for her beauty and charitable personality. Upon her death, rumors circulated that she had been poisoned; the rumors were born after the apparent discovery during her embalming that there was a black growth on her heart that might have been caused by poisoning. Nowadays it is suspected it was just cancer.
Maria of Viseu is the half-aunt (and also first cousin) of Maria Manuela not her half-sisterPOD: Maria Manuela of Portugal lives much longer.Other Titles: Princess of Asturias, Duchess of Milan, Queen of Spain
Queen Maria Manuela I of Portugal
House of Aviz
Date of Birth: 15 October 1527, Coimbra
Date of Death: 29 January 1605, El Escorial
Burial: 1 February 1605, El Escorial
Husband: Philip II of Spain (m. 1543, d. 1598)
Issue:
1. Charles, Prince of Asturias and Girona
2. Catherine, Queen of Poland
3. Joan, Holy Roman Empress
4. Philip, King of Spain and Portugal
5. Maria, Queen of France
Father: John III of Portugal
Mother: Catherine of Austria
Religion: Catholicism
History:
Despite her prestigious background and glittering prospects, Maria Manuela of Portugal was very much a woman of her era, content to leave political maneuvers to her husband. (In letters to her mother, she proclaimed herself to be fortunate to have married so charming a prince.) Philip enjoyed hosting chivalric tournaments to entertain his wife. she was a soft-spoken musician who read extensively and played social games with her courtiers. A devoted and loving mother, she bore five children and unusually allowed for all of them to receive similar educations, regardless of age or gender. It is known that she believed that religious unity was necessary for a peaceful public life and explicitly rejected the idea of religious toleration. She even advocated for a state church, though her husband rejected this, and contemporary adversary travelers criticized her regime as bigoted, intolerant and superstitious.
Upon the death of her unmarried and childless nephew Sebastian, she succeeded smoothly as queen of Portugal. She chose to work with parliament and advisers she could trust to tell her the truth. During her life traveling with her husband, Maria was reportedly ill at ease in a country which was not entirely Catholic, and she surrounded herself with a circle of strictly Catholic courtiers, many of whom she had brought with her from Portugal. The outward celebration of saints and holy relics formed no major part of her personal devotions, which she rather expressed in the Mass, prayer, confession and penance. She continued cultivating the library of her mother, Catherine of Austria, and also preserved and expanded her collection of porcelain. She sponsored many building projects like her half-sister, also named Maria.
As Queen consort of Spain, she was given a great representational role by Philip and often in his company, participating in ceremonies, parties, and receptions at his side, and performing representational tasks. She was popular among the public for her beauty and charitable personality. Upon her death, rumors circulated that she had been poisoned; the rumors were born after the apparent discovery during her embalming that there was a black growth on her heart that might have been caused by poisoning. Nowadays it is suspected it was just cancer.
William III of England, son of Young King
On 1177, William, the infant son of Henry the Young King and Margaret of France would survive and would be separated from his mother, Margaret of France after the death of his father, Henry the Young King and she would be sent to Hungary
On 1189, on the death of Henry II, William III of England, the son of Henry the Young King and Margaret of France, Queen of Hungary would succeed the throne, he is 12 years old at this time, he needed three years to reach his majority.
On 1193, he would marry Ingeborg of Denmark, which is arranged by his uncle Richard I, Duke of Aquitaine, a marriage that would result in five surviving children, including his successor, Henry III of England who is his eldest son, and his other son, Richard, the Latin Emperor.
He would reign until his death on 1230 when his son, Henry III of England would succeed as the King of England.
On 1177, William, the infant son of Henry the Young King and Margaret of France would survive and would be separated from his mother, Margaret of France after the death of his father, Henry the Young King and she would be sent to Hungary
On 1189, on the death of Henry II, William III of England, the son of Henry the Young King and Margaret of France, Queen of Hungary would succeed the throne, he is 12 years old at this time, he needed three years to reach his majority.
On 1193, he would marry Ingeborg of Denmark, which is arranged by his uncle Richard I, Duke of Aquitaine, a marriage that would result in five surviving children, including his successor, Henry III of England who is his eldest son, and his other son, Richard, the Latin Emperor.
He would reign until his death on 1230 when his son, Henry III of England would succeed as the King of England.
Amazing work! Suggestion: Juan, prince of asturias and girona lives to succeed his parents.POD: Maria Manuela of Portugal lives much longer.Other Titles: Princess of Asturias, Duchess of Milan, Queen of Spain
Queen Maria Manuela I of Portugal
House of Aviz
Date of Birth: 15 October 1527, Coimbra
Date of Death: 29 January 1605, El Escorial
Burial: 1 February 1605, El Escorial
Husband: Philip II of Spain (m. 1543, d. 1598)
Issue:
1. Charles, Prince of Asturias and Girona
2. Catherine, Queen of Poland
3. Joan, Holy Roman Empress
4. Philip, King of Spain and Portugal
5. Maria, Queen of France
Father: John III of Portugal
Mother: Catherine of Austria
Religion: Catholicism
History:
Despite her prestigious background and glittering prospects, Maria Manuela of Portugal was very much a woman of her era, content to leave political maneuvers to her husband. (In letters to her mother, she proclaimed herself to be fortunate to have married so charming a prince.) Philip enjoyed hosting chivalric tournaments to entertain his wife. she was a soft-spoken musician who read extensively and played social games with her courtiers. A devoted and loving mother, she bore five children and unusually allowed for all of them to receive similar educations, regardless of age or gender. It is known that she believed that religious unity was necessary for a peaceful public life and explicitly rejected the idea of religious toleration. She even advocated for a state church, though her husband rejected this, and contemporary adversary travelers criticized her regime as bigoted, intolerant and superstitious.
Upon the death of her unmarried and childless nephew Sebastian, she succeeded smoothly as queen of Portugal. She chose to work with parliament and advisers she could trust to tell her the truth. During her life traveling with her husband, Maria was reportedly ill at ease in a country which was not entirely Catholic, and she surrounded herself with a circle of strictly Catholic courtiers, many of whom she had brought with her from Portugal. The outward celebration of saints and holy relics formed no major part of her personal devotions, which she rather expressed in the Mass, prayer, confession and penance. She continued cultivating the library of her mother, Catherine of Austria, and also preserved and expanded her collection of porcelain. She sponsored many building projects like her half-sister, also named Maria.
As Queen consort of Spain, she was given a great representational role by Philip and often in his company, participating in ceremonies, parties, and receptions at his side, and performing representational tasks. She was popular among the public for her beauty and charitable personality. Upon her death, rumors circulated that she had been poisoned; the rumors were born after the apparent discovery during her embalming that there was a black growth on her heart that might have been caused by poisoning. Nowadays it is suspected it was just cancer.
BoleynBuff - La Mère du Peuple - Arthur dies in 1506, and Catherine of Aragon marries Louis XII - Catherine of Aragon, Queen Consort of France (1506-1523)
La Mère du Peuple
POD: Arthur dies in 1506, and Catherine of Aragon marries Louis XII.
Queen Catherine of France, c. 1519
Catherine of Aragon, Queen Consort of France
House of Trastamara
12 December, 1506 to 7 March 1523
Other Title(s): Duchess of Milan (from 1519)POD: Arthur dies in 1506, and Catherine of Aragon marries Louis XII.
Queen Catherine of France, c. 1519
Catherine of Aragon, Queen Consort of France
House of Trastamara
12 December, 1506 to 7 March 1523
Date of Birth: 16 December 1485, Archiepiscopal Palace
Date of Death: 22 June 1548, Château de Blois
Burial: 16 July 1548, Basilica of St. Denis
Husbands: Arthur, Prince of Wales (m. 1501, d. 1506); Louis XII of France (m. 1506, d. 1523)
Issue:
1. Marie, Holy Roman Empress
2. Charles IX, King of France
3. Isabelle, Duchess of Brittany
4. Jean I, King of Naples
5. Philippe, Duke of Orleans
6. Anne, Queen of Scots
Father: King Ferdinand II of Aragon
Mother: Queen Isabella I of Castile and Leon
Religion: Roman Catholic
History: Born the youngest child of the illustrious Catholic monarchs, Catherine was meant for a great destiny at a young age, when she was betrothed to the heir of England, Prince Arthur. She would finally set sail for her destiny at fifteen, and despite a bit of a language barrier with her spouse at first, developed a close bond with Arthur. Tragically, Catherine would suffer multiple miscarriages during her first marriage. Arthur then died of a fever in 1506, aged not yet twenty-one, leaving Catherine a devastated widow. Her brother-in-law, Henry, became the new Prince of Wales, alongside his wife, Marguerite of Brittany [1]. Catherine would return to her father's kingdom grief-stricken, and King Ferdinand would waste no time in marrying her to King Louis XII of France, as part of an (albeit short-lived) alliance between the rival kingdoms of France and Aragon.
King Louis was smitten with the beautiful Catherine upon their first meeting. Catherine was decidedly more lukewarm, though it is unclear whether she disliked Louis as a person or was upset about being married to her family's arch-rivals, the French. Catherine was nothing if not a woman of duty, however. She sponsored countless charities and developed a series of schools for orphaned girls out of her own pocket. She supported her husband in all his endeavors (even though they were practically all against her own relatives) and most importantly for a queen consort, she bore a brood of children who would become known to historians as "the French Illustrious Generation."
Catherine also proved herself to be the daughter of the great Queen Isabella in many ways. Her diplomatic efforts were instrumental in getting her firstborn, Marie, married to her nephew, Charles V. She was crucial in developing the Franco-Polish alliance that would lead to France conquering the duchy of Milan, and much of her correspondence with Queen Bona Sforza survives, including the ones detailing the betrothal negotiations for Catherine's son Charles to marry Bona's daughter Isabella. It was also her diplomacy that was the reason France never went to war with Duke Richard of Brittany [2] or his successor, during the reigns of her husband and son.
After being widowed, Catherine still had great influence over the governing of France, though the dramatized view of her manipulating Charles IX and Queen Isabella Jagiellon is almost certainly a fabrication. Unfortunately, Catherine's relationship with her daughter, Empress Marie, would be a casualty of her support of France's endeavors in Italy. Though the story of Catherine begging for Marie's forgiveness on her deathbed is deemed by most to be a simple legend, she did keep a miniature of Marie on her person for the rest of her life.
There were certainly more triumphs than tragedies for Catherine. She lived to see the conquest of Naples in 1541, which gave her second son, Jean, a crown. Economic policies that she is suspected to have been behind the development of made the royal coffers overflow. She was in charge of the education of Charles IX's children, which she based upon the varied and extensive education she had received in her youth, before dying at the age of 63 with two of her sons and their children at her side.
[1] Daughter of male! Anne of Brittany and Louise of Savoy
[2] male! Anne of Brittany
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I want this scenario. I want to write a whole damn TL about this scenario.La Mère du PeupleOther Title(s): Duchess of Milan (from 1519)
POD: Arthur dies in 1506, and Catherine of Aragon marries Louis XII.
Queen Catherine of France, c. 1519
Catherine of Aragon, Queen Consort of France
House of Trastamara
12 December, 1506 to 7 March 1523
Date of Birth: 16 December 1485, Archiepiscopal Palace
Date of Death: 22 June 1548, Château de Blois
Burial: 16 July 1548, Basilica of St. Denis
Husbands: Arthur, Prince of Wales (m. 1501, d. 1506); Louis XII of France (m. 1506, d. 1523)
Issue:
1. Marie, Holy Roman Empress
2. Charles IX, King of France
3. Isabelle, Duchess of Brittany
4. Jean I, King of Naples
5. Philippe, Duke of Orleans
6. Anne, Queen of Scots
Father: King Ferdinand II of Aragon
Mother: Queen Isabella I of Castile and Leon
History: Born the youngest child of the illustrious Catholic monarchs, Catherine was meant for a great destiny at a young age, when she was betrothed to the heir of England, Prince Arthur. She would finally set sail for her destiny at fifteen, and despite a bit of a language barrier with her spouse at first, developed a close bond with Arthur. Tragically, Catherine would suffer multiple miscarriages during her first marriage. Arthur then died of a fever in 1506, aged not yet twenty-one, leaving Catherine a devastated widow. Her brother-in-law, Henry, became the new Prince of Wales, alongside his wife, Marguerite of Brittany [1]. Catherine would return to her father's kingdom grief-stricken, and King Ferdinand would waste no time in marrying her to King Louis XII of France, as part of an (albeit short-lived) alliance between the rival kingdoms of France and Aragon.
King Louis was smitten with the beautiful Catherine upon their first meeting. Catherine was decidedly more lukewarm, though it is unclear whether she disliked Louis as a person or was upset about being married to her family's arch-rivals, the French. Catherine was nothing if not a woman of duty, however. She sponsored countless charities and developed a series of schools for orphaned girls out of her own pocket. She supported her husband in all his endeavors (even though they were practically all against her own relatives) and most importantly for a queen consort, she bore a brood of children who would become known to historians as "the French Illustrious Generation."
Catherine also proved herself to be the daughter of the great Queen Isabella in many ways. Her diplomatic efforts were instrumental in getting her firstborn, Marie, married to her nephew, Charles V. She was crucial in developing the Franco-Polish alliance that would lead to France conquering the duchy of Milan, and much of her correspondence with Queen Bona Sforza survives, including the ones detailing the betrothal negotiations for Catherine's son Charles to marry Bona's daughter Isabella. It was also her diplomacy that was the reason France never went to war with Duke Richard of Brittany [2] or his successor, during the reigns of her husband and son.
After being widowed, Catherine still had great influence over the governing of France, though the dramatized view of her manipulating Charles IX and Queen Isabella Jagiellon is almost certainly a fabrication. Unfortunately, Catherine's relationship with her daughter, Empress Marie, would be a casualty of her support of France's endeavors in Italy. Though the story of Catherine begging for Marie's forgiveness on her deathbed is deemed by most to be a simple legend, she did keep a miniature of Marie on her person for the rest of her life.
There were certainly more triumphs than tragedies for Catherine. She lived to see the conquest of Naples in 1541, which gave her second son, Jean, a crown. Economic policies that she is suspected to have been behind the development of made the royal coffers overflow. She was in charge of the education of Charles IX's children, which she based upon the varied and extensive education she had received in her youth, before dying at the age of 63 with two of her sons and their children at her side.
[1] Daughter of male! Anne of Brittany and Louise of Savoy
[2] male! Anne of Brittany
Yeeees thank you. Pm me. I do have to go to sleep right now, but I shall answer you tomorrow!
My post encouraging people to write timelines? I don't know how this happened but I want it to continue
Ordinarylittleme - Mary I's pregnancy wasn't false, she had a daughter - Queen Katherine of England, Lady of the Netherlands (1558 - 1622)
POD: Mary I's pregnancy wasn't false, she had a daughter.
Queen Katherine of England, Lady of the Netherlands.
House of Habsburg
17 November 1558 - 16 November 1622
Other Titles: Archduchess of Austria, Infanta of Spain and Portugal, Queen of Ireland
Date of birth: July 2, 1555
Date of death: November 16, 1622
Burial: December 1, 1622, Westminster Abbey
Husbands:
a) Ernest of Austria (m. 1567, d. 1595)
b) Edward Seymour, 1st Earl of Hertford (m. 1600, d. 1621)
Issue:
1a) Mary, Queen of France
2a) Margaret, Holy Roman Empress
3a) Philip II, King of England and the Netherlands
4a) Charles, Duke of York
5a) Katherine, Duchess of Savoy
Father: Philip II of Spain
Mother: Mary I of England
Religion: Roman Catholicism
History:
Born to Mary I of England and her husband, King Philip II of Spain, Katherine was their only child. From an early age, Katherine exhibited a great passion for knowledge and literature. Her insatiable curiosity drove her to become a voracious reader, immersing herself in a diverse range of literary works. Her thirst for learning led her to master seven different languages, allowing her to engage in intellectual pursuits across cultural boundaries.
Katherine's loyalty to her father, King Philip II, was unwavering. She deeply admired and respected him, sharing his devout Catholic faith. She enacted a series of religious reforms aimed at reversing the Protestant reforms implemented during the reign of her half-uncle, Edward VI. These reforms included the reinstatement of Catholic rituals and practices, the suppression of Protestant worship, and the persecution of Protestant leaders. These actions stirred religious tensions and led to resistance from Protestant factions. She actively supported and promoted Catholic reforms, such as the establishment of seminaries and the enforcement of stricter religious practices However, she did not get along with her stepmothers, finding them too determined to undermine her authority.
Katherine's marital journey was thankfully less dramatic than her grandfather's. She first married Ernest of Austria, a union that brought forth a period of shared happiness and fruitful collaboration. However, tragedy struck when Ernest passed away prematurely, leaving Katherine widowed. In a surprising turn of events, Katherine found love once again and married Edward Seymour, a nobleman known for his charm and wit. Their union brought a sense of companionship and stability to Katherine's life, and as she was past her childbearing years, the council mostly accepted it.
Queen Katherine of England, Lady of the Netherlands.
House of Habsburg
17 November 1558 - 16 November 1622
Other Titles: Archduchess of Austria, Infanta of Spain and Portugal, Queen of Ireland
Date of birth: July 2, 1555
Date of death: November 16, 1622
Burial: December 1, 1622, Westminster Abbey
Husbands:
a) Ernest of Austria (m. 1567, d. 1595)
b) Edward Seymour, 1st Earl of Hertford (m. 1600, d. 1621)
Issue:
1a) Mary, Queen of France
2a) Margaret, Holy Roman Empress
3a) Philip II, King of England and the Netherlands
4a) Charles, Duke of York
5a) Katherine, Duchess of Savoy
Father: Philip II of Spain
Mother: Mary I of England
Religion: Roman Catholicism
History:
Born to Mary I of England and her husband, King Philip II of Spain, Katherine was their only child. From an early age, Katherine exhibited a great passion for knowledge and literature. Her insatiable curiosity drove her to become a voracious reader, immersing herself in a diverse range of literary works. Her thirst for learning led her to master seven different languages, allowing her to engage in intellectual pursuits across cultural boundaries.
Katherine's loyalty to her father, King Philip II, was unwavering. She deeply admired and respected him, sharing his devout Catholic faith. She enacted a series of religious reforms aimed at reversing the Protestant reforms implemented during the reign of her half-uncle, Edward VI. These reforms included the reinstatement of Catholic rituals and practices, the suppression of Protestant worship, and the persecution of Protestant leaders. These actions stirred religious tensions and led to resistance from Protestant factions. She actively supported and promoted Catholic reforms, such as the establishment of seminaries and the enforcement of stricter religious practices However, she did not get along with her stepmothers, finding them too determined to undermine her authority.
Katherine's marital journey was thankfully less dramatic than her grandfather's. She first married Ernest of Austria, a union that brought forth a period of shared happiness and fruitful collaboration. However, tragedy struck when Ernest passed away prematurely, leaving Katherine widowed. In a surprising turn of events, Katherine found love once again and married Edward Seymour, a nobleman known for his charm and wit. Their union brought a sense of companionship and stability to Katherine's life, and as she was past her childbearing years, the council mostly accepted it.
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I think it would be more likely that the name would be Catherine with a C, in the same way as the name Catherine of Aragon
Does Rudolf get married here? Maximilian II lives longer? otherwise I doubt that Ernst will end up getting married.
Did they get married before she was born?
Why did England and Netherlands separate? keeping Netherland in personal union with England is much more advantageous
Katherine spelled her name with a K....
Ernest is in line for nothing while Rudolf lives, so he would be a good choice as consort for a queen regnant
That was meant to say b for born, I'll just edit that
Otherwise the second son gets nothing
The majority of second sons got nothing anyways, and a personal union with the Low Countries was pretty much the only reason England accepted Mary’s marriage.