Errolwi

Monthly Donor
To illustrate how much the Far East was viewed as the unimportant cousin, this account of a clusterf--- in September 1942 still resulted in
The result of poor preparation, inadequate briefings and sub-standard communication between the Met. Office and Fighter Command had cost many lives, and very nearly many, many more. A number of postings to the Far East soon followed, and many lessons weren’t that day that led to improvements preventing such a tragedy ever happening again.

Because it is the Circus operations that are important, apparently.
 
To illustrate how much the Far East was viewed as the unimportant cousin, this account of a clusterf--- in September 1942 still resulted in


Because it is the Circus operations that are important, apparently.
I remember reading about this in Goodson's book Tumult in the Sky, he arrived as a replacement and the belongings of the lost pilots were still in their rooms.
 
Because it is the Circus operations that are important, apparently.
The surprising part about that was that it was three USAAC squadrons conducting the bombing mission, I was unaware the US was involved in Circus that much or indeed at all. They've done a good job hushing that up.
 
The Circuses and Rhubarbs and other silly named offensive fighter and bomber missions into France are often viewed as wasteful and foolish.

If viewed in isolation then yes they are

However when we look at why they were carried out - not so much

The intention was initially to oblige the Luftwaffe to keep air assets in France and the Lowlands to prevent them from sending more of their Strength east - the British knew that Barbarossa was coming pretty much a week after the German leadership had given teh go ahead back in November 1940

Once the invasion of Russia had commenced the RAF massively upped operational intensity

The Russians were losing a massive number of aircraft and suffering an 11:1 loss ratio so every single German aircraft the British could destroy in the West was one less aircraft that the Germans could send east and by the brutal math of WW2 that would be 11 Russian planes not lost.

That these operations did not cause a massive redeployment is the only downside of these ops not that they were carried out - they were correct to have done so.
 

Mark1878

Donor
The Circuses and Rhubarbs and other silly named offensive fighter and bomber missions into France are often viewed as wasteful and foolish.

If viewed in isolation then yes they are

However when we look at why they were carried out - not so much

The intention was initially to oblige the Luftwaffe to keep air assets in France and the Lowlands to prevent them from sending more of their Strength east - the British knew that Barbarossa was coming pretty much a week after the German leadership had given teh go ahead back in November 1940

Once the invasion of Russia had commenced the RAF massively upped operational intensity

The Russians were losing a massive number of aircraft and suffering an 11:1 loss ratio so every single German aircraft the British could destroy in the West was one less aircraft that the Germans could send east and by the brutal math of WW2 that would be 11 Russian planes not lost.

That these operations did not cause a massive redeployment is the only downside of these ops not that they were carried out - they were correct to have done so.
Yes the basic issue is how can Britain help Russia immediately.

They can't use the Army as no front to engage on - North Africa Germans are only a Corps which is nothing to Russia.
Naval - well there aren't any German ships to engage.
So we are left with air. Bomber Command does not have the four engined bombers yet and not the accuracy to hit useful things like oil.
The one thing Britain is left with that might be able to attack German forces is Fighter Command and all they can do is the Rhubarbs and Circuses.

Oh and politically for home reasons and relations with the US Britain has to be seen to do something. So something has to be done. - What else can be done in 1941?
 
Oh and politically for home reasons and relations with the US Britain has to be seen to do something. So something has to be done. - What else can be done in 1941?
UK renounces Treaty of Paris and begins impressing USN ships and personnel. The RN lands press gangs in the resumed British North America and conducts involuntary conscription. King George VI issues another George III style edict demanding the surrender and execution of all Congress and Executive Branch members. Think Big. LOL!
 
UK renounces Treaty of Paris and begins impressing USN ships and personnel. The RN lands press gangs in the resumed British North America and conducts involuntary conscription. King George VI issues another George III style edict demanding the surrender and execution of all Congress and Executive Branch members. Think Big. LOL!

We're not going to let the former USA back into the Commonwealth until they come to their senses and renounce those barbaric and ridiculous types of football and rounders that they play.
 
We're not going to let the former USA back into the Commonwealth until they come to their senses and renounce those barbaric and ridiculous types of football and rounders that they play.
As long as you agree to begin driving on the right side of the road, as the Germans intended...
 
We do drive on the left side, that's the right side. :) Or is it that we drive on the right side which is the left side?
If you are off planet and looking down at Greenwich, I guess that I'm to the left and you're to the right.

My family left during James and Charles reigns. That was pre-Commonwealth of course. When your
ruler was still from the British Isles, and not a Hanoverian.
 

Ramp-Rat

Monthly Donor
As long as you agree to begin driving on the right side of the road, as the Germans intended...

Sir I must disagree with you, as it wasn’t the Germans who came up with the idea of switching the side of the road that people should drive on from the natural left, to the right. That was instigated by a French dictator, who also decided to invade Russia, and seriously got his fingers burned, just as the Austrian Corporal is going to. And it was from the same French, Americans got the inspiration for the system of government, and their Bill of Rights. As for their choice of sports, that’s their business, but I will note that the majority of the world, has chosen to play the English version of football and rounders, which is called cricket. After all there is no World Cup in Grid Iron or Baseball, but there is in Association and Rugby football, along with Cricket.

RR.
 
MWI 41112009 President Coolidge

Fatboy Coxy

Monthly Donor
1941, Thursday 20 November;

The big liner, President Coolidge, completing her voyage from San Francisco, gave a final blast to signal she was secured hard against the jetty, allowing the tug to stop pushing. As soon as the whistle stopped, as if on signal, the Filipino band struck up ‘Dixie’, the bars rising to welcome all on board to Manila, Capital of the Philippines. Within minutes gangways were being swung in place and before the hour was out, passengers began disembarking. Further along the quayside, another berth had been cleared and preparation had begun to accept the big passenger and cargo ship USAT Hugh L Scott, another ship taken into service by the War Department. Meanwhile, the escorting heavy cruiser, the USS Louisville had anchored out in Manila Bay.

Their arrival was a further demonstration of a change of attitude in Washington to the defence of the Philippines. Prior to MacArthur’s recall to duty, there had been an agreed stance between the Army and the Navy, that the Philippines couldn't be held, and their loss to Japan, accepted, should war happen. This had been borne out by the ABC talks with Britain in early 41, where a policy of Germany First was agreed, the British left to defend their Far Eastern possessions alone, depending on American political pressure to keep Japan in check.

But with the German invasion of the Soviet Union, the threat of any German operations to capture islands in the Atlantic dissipated, as their strategic focus was now fully on the east. This convinced Roosevelt that with the Atlantic safe, bar the U-boat menace, and Japan now free to turn south, he needed to take a stronger stance in the Pacific. MacArthur’s lobbying that the Philippines wasn’t a lost cause, and could be held, played to receptive ears. And by positioning a large force of the B-17 Heavy Bombers in Luzon, a greater deterrence would be applied on any Japanese advance southwards. So, with the Navy’s voice going unheeded, Washington and the Army embraced the idea.

Now General George C Marshall, Army Chief of Staff, was doing all he could, where possible, to provide the weapons, munitions, personnel and equipment that MacArthur requested. And MacArthur was asking for a lot, 125,000 steel helmets, which could be quickly sent, as was the 500,000 C rations, and 1,000,000 gallons of gasoline in 55-gallon drums. But the 84,500 Garrand M1 rifles, due to lend lease, production schedules and US Army expansion, were not available, the Philippine Army having to make do with the Enfield and Springfield 1903 rifles. Neither would he get the hundreds of .30 and .50 calibre machine guns, the 81mm mortars, 37mm and 75mm guns, and over 8,000 vehicles he requested any time soon.

But undeterred, MacArthur pushed to take obsolete weapons as substitutes, some pack howitzers coming from the Canal Zone, along with 48 ex-British 75mm guns and over 100 .30 machine guns from the Hawaiian garrison, as well as a mix of 37mm and 75mm guns of WW1 vintage from Army stocks, a sure indication of how important the War Department viewed his needs. Furthermore, existing US artillery units in the Philippines were planned on being upgraded to 105mm howitzers, their 75mm guns would also be handed to the Philippine artillery. Turning to coastal defence, the plan to send 24 155mm guns, without any fire control to be used for the fixed coastal batteries was expanded to include another 22 155mm guns, 30 searchlights, and some railway guns, four 12-inch and four 8-inch, all of which was approved.

And MacArthur didn’t stop there, requesting more US units to help strengthen his Philippine Army, the numbers of officers and men totalling nearly 20,000. They quickly sent 425 reserve US Army officers to assist in the mobalisation and training of that army, while also agreeing to the establishment of four major tactical commands, each big enough to act as a corps HQ, along with some army and corps support troops. But the eye-catching part was US combat troops, another US infantry regiment, providing the Philippine Division with two US and a single Philippine Scout, Infantry Regiments, the other Scout Regiment being disbanded, its men backfilling vacancies in other units, improving their quality. Two extra US Field Artillery battalions were being sent for the Division, while a complete independent Field Artillery Brigade, and a Tank Group were included.

However, this surge in reinforcement of men and equipment overloaded the US transport system, and despite more ships being allocated to the Manila route, a backlog had quickly built up. With a US Navy escort of a heavy cruiser, the reinforcement convoys had begun, in September the 194th Tank Battalion with 54 M3 light tanks, the 17th Ordnance Company, and the 200th Artillery Regiment, an AA unit, all National Guard units, had arrived. The 200th, with additional men and guns, was split, forming a second AA unit, the 515th. And now a second tank battalion, the 192nd, had arrived, and later in the month, with the arrival of Brig Gen James Weaver, the two tank battalions and the ordnance company would form the 1st Provisional tank group.

Following the Carolina Manoeuvres in the summer, a series of big US Army exercises, the 34th Infantry Regiment, recognised as the best infantry unit in those exercises, had been allocated to the Philippine Division, the troops to ship out on the 7th December. And more shipping was being allocated, allowing an increase in reinforcement, and by the end of December, they would deliver one light and one heavy bombardment group, a pursuit group, one reconnaissance squadron, the 34th infantry, a brigade of field artillery, two battalions of light artillery, together with ground and air service units. Indeed, the personnel of the light bombardment group, the 27th, with its three squadrons had just arrived, along with two pursuit squadrons, the 21st and 34th, their planes were scheduled later. Preceding them, the new commander of the US Army Air Force, Maj Gen Lewis Brereton, had arrived two weeks ago, things were beginning to move fast.
 

Mark1878

Donor
UK renounces Treaty of Paris and begins impressing USN ships and personnel. The RN lands press gangs in the resumed British North America and conducts involuntary conscription. King George VI issues another George III style edict demanding the surrender and execution of all Congress and Executive Branch members. Think Big. LOL!
Stop getting idea from Harry Harrison Alternate History
 
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