I doubt even those who took the Japanese more seriously than most (like Chennault) did, honestly.
Malaya What If
- Thread starter Fatboy Coxy
- Start date
Interesting. This directly contradicts the establishment and mission of ABDACOM. Do you maybe have a source where I can learn more about this decision and the orders send to Hart? Not out of suspicion but out of interest
Mainly this monograph :Interesting. This directly contradicts the establishment and mission of ABDACOM. Do you maybe have a source where I can learn more about this decision and the orders send to Hart? Not out of suspicion but out of interest
5-2014
Admiral Thomas C. Hart And The Demise Of The
Asiatic Fleet 1941 – 1942
David DuBois
East Tennessee State University
Admiral Thomas C. Hart And The Demise Of The Asiatic Fleet 1941 – 1942
Admiral Thomas C. Hart And The Demise Of The Asiatic Fleet 1941 – 1942 is a chronicle of the opening days of World War II in the Pacific and the demise of the U.S. Navy’s Asiatic Fleet. Beginning with the background of Four Star Admiral Thomas Hart, this chronicle shows the history of the nearly...
7th Armoured Brigade were withdrawn from the front at the the end of November 1941 and returned to the Delta for re-equipping as they had lost all their tanks. 480 Stuarts had been delivered to the Middle East by the end of 1941. IIRC OTL they were put on notice on 1 February for shipping eastwards and arrived in theatre about a fortnight later.
Given that ITTL a higher priority has been given to the Far East, it might be possible for them to arrive in theatre 4-6 weeks earlier without affecting the Middle East.
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Without a surviving Force Z...
A surviving Force Z (or part, even damaged) as a fleet in being makes things more complicated as it will probably by THE priority for Japan's air and naval forces.
Lucky sod, we don't have that sort of mass event down here in Oz. We've got a J/36 (as well as many little boats) but there's stuff-all proper racing for boats of that size and type in Oz these days.
My mates got a 26 foot Super Seal.
Our 3rd year racing it - we won our group last year so no pressure….
I hope you make the tidal gate at the Needles and it does not get too 'lumpy' off St Cats point!!
Good luck and safe sailing.
Good luck and safe sailing.
Had a ‘lively’ trip from Gosport to Cows with gusts upto 30 knot.
Now at the ‘Lifeboat pub’ in East Cows and hoping its not quite as windy for the race on Sat.
Fatboy Coxy
Monthly Donor
Hi JasTysoe, to be fair, you couldn't sail round your island in a weekend!
Fatboy Coxy
Monthly Donor
and
Hi Aber and Logan2879, what's this Force Z thingy? I'm not doing a Star Wars, may the Force be with you!
Fatboy Coxy
Monthly Donor
Hi Unknown, I've got about another 80-90 stories to post yet, there's a lot to cover off, I'll try and pick up the pace in posting if I can.
Ramp-Rat
Monthly Donor
Dear sir being totally pedantic, you can not sail around Great Britain in a weekend ether, I am sure that our former convicts friends, could sail around Tasmania in a weekend, the same way that we are able to sail around the Isle of Wight. As for Force Z, providing that there hasn’t been a major change in the conduct of the war, it should remain the same ITTL as it was IOTL. With the only difference being HMS Indomitable not grounding and thus being available to be allocated, in addition to the battleship and battlecruiser, selected. Which along with the various improvements already made to the air defence environment, should ensure the survival, of all three capital vessels for a time.
RR.
Fatboy Coxy
Monthly Donor
Hi Ramp-Rat, at the moment the Aussies are content sailing through the Ashes series!
Force Z, you as well?, what is this, a twist on the mark of Zorro! something to do with ZZ Top?, I just don't get it!
MWI 41100812 Building Up A Picture
Fatboy Coxy
Monthly Donor
1941, Wednesday 8 October;
He banked over and straightened up for a second run over the works below. They were calling it an airfield, but all he saw was some cleared land, piles of broken scrub wood emitting a lazy smoke, and some recently dug drainage ditches. And across the whole area were numerous coolies and bullocks pulling carts, sledges, rollers etc. It didn’t seem much different to last week, but Singapore wanted more photos, so who was he to argue. The F24 cameras clicked away as he cruised over, confident that should anything hostile appear, he could just run way, with a maximum speed of 350 mph, thanks in part to not carrying any machine guns, he was confident that nothing would catch him.
Just the three, including this so called, airfields to photograph today, all on the Kra Isthmus, and this was the last, next it was home, Alor Star, and on landing he had a couple of airmen fuss over the cameras and extract the film, while the squadron leader of RAF No 4 (Singapore) PRU, asked him how the flight went. His new Canadian built Hurricane, a Mk X, built by the Canadian Car and Foundry, and fitted with a British built Merlin XX engine, would get the once over from the ground crew, and they’d have his baby ready for tomorrow. And that was it really, a lovely little job, a spot of lunch, and the rest of the day off, cushty!
On the edge of the runway was a de Havilland Dominie, part of the Comms Flight out of Seletar, waiting for his film. Film from the other Hurricane PRU, taken of the ports and surrounding areas of Pattani and Songkhla was already onboard. In two hours’, time they would be in Kuala Lumpur for a short stop, before flying onto Seletar, arriving about tea time.
Seletar, just before 5pm, a despatch rider was waiting by the hangers for the film, which once the airmen had placed in his paniers, and signed off, he was away, roaring along, full of the self-important of a prestige assignment, and feeling like king of the road as he raced off south, towards Singapore. Along Thomson Road he roared, the waters of the MacRitchie Reservoir could be seen on his right, until he reached the right hand turning, into Lornie Road, racing now south of the Reservoir. Sime Road came up on his right, and the first checkpoint, with barriers and armed guards, a mere formality with him, as he was waved through.
Further on down Sime Road, he came to the gates of the partially built, joint Army/RAF headquarters, where his papers were checked by the Sikh guards. On, in he rode, careful to observe the speed limit, there were too many Red Caps around, until he pulled in the parking area, by a long wooden hut. Several small trucks and cars were parked on the gravel, and pulling his BSA M20 onto its rear stand, he took his satchel of film into the entrance hall, the door opened by another Sikh sentry.
Inside, he turned left and walked over to a big desk, signing the film over to a young WAAF “Hello Gladys, you look lovelier every day”, “oh give over Reg, you say that to all us girls” she smiled, as she took the film, and signed his paperwork. Reg gave a smile, “I’ll be off then Gladys”, and he walked out, heading for a cup of tea at the NAFFI. Gladys picked up the telephone, dialled a number and waited for the call to be answered. “Hello Peter, your film is here”. Seconds later a young RAF sergeant quickly emerged from the long corridor, and took the film, heading to the dark room to develop it.
Next morning, 8am sharp, a Flight Lieutenant and two Pilot Officers, started work, hunched over their tables, with magnifying glasses, studying the blown-up photos, comparing them with last week’s, noting changes, estimating lengths, widths, identifying locations. By mid-morning, a typed report, accompanied by three photos, was in the hands of the intelligence officers.
He banked over and straightened up for a second run over the works below. They were calling it an airfield, but all he saw was some cleared land, piles of broken scrub wood emitting a lazy smoke, and some recently dug drainage ditches. And across the whole area were numerous coolies and bullocks pulling carts, sledges, rollers etc. It didn’t seem much different to last week, but Singapore wanted more photos, so who was he to argue. The F24 cameras clicked away as he cruised over, confident that should anything hostile appear, he could just run way, with a maximum speed of 350 mph, thanks in part to not carrying any machine guns, he was confident that nothing would catch him.
Just the three, including this so called, airfields to photograph today, all on the Kra Isthmus, and this was the last, next it was home, Alor Star, and on landing he had a couple of airmen fuss over the cameras and extract the film, while the squadron leader of RAF No 4 (Singapore) PRU, asked him how the flight went. His new Canadian built Hurricane, a Mk X, built by the Canadian Car and Foundry, and fitted with a British built Merlin XX engine, would get the once over from the ground crew, and they’d have his baby ready for tomorrow. And that was it really, a lovely little job, a spot of lunch, and the rest of the day off, cushty!
On the edge of the runway was a de Havilland Dominie, part of the Comms Flight out of Seletar, waiting for his film. Film from the other Hurricane PRU, taken of the ports and surrounding areas of Pattani and Songkhla was already onboard. In two hours’, time they would be in Kuala Lumpur for a short stop, before flying onto Seletar, arriving about tea time.
Seletar, just before 5pm, a despatch rider was waiting by the hangers for the film, which once the airmen had placed in his paniers, and signed off, he was away, roaring along, full of the self-important of a prestige assignment, and feeling like king of the road as he raced off south, towards Singapore. Along Thomson Road he roared, the waters of the MacRitchie Reservoir could be seen on his right, until he reached the right hand turning, into Lornie Road, racing now south of the Reservoir. Sime Road came up on his right, and the first checkpoint, with barriers and armed guards, a mere formality with him, as he was waved through.
Further on down Sime Road, he came to the gates of the partially built, joint Army/RAF headquarters, where his papers were checked by the Sikh guards. On, in he rode, careful to observe the speed limit, there were too many Red Caps around, until he pulled in the parking area, by a long wooden hut. Several small trucks and cars were parked on the gravel, and pulling his BSA M20 onto its rear stand, he took his satchel of film into the entrance hall, the door opened by another Sikh sentry.
Inside, he turned left and walked over to a big desk, signing the film over to a young WAAF “Hello Gladys, you look lovelier every day”, “oh give over Reg, you say that to all us girls” she smiled, as she took the film, and signed his paperwork. Reg gave a smile, “I’ll be off then Gladys”, and he walked out, heading for a cup of tea at the NAFFI. Gladys picked up the telephone, dialled a number and waited for the call to be answered. “Hello Peter, your film is here”. Seconds later a young RAF sergeant quickly emerged from the long corridor, and took the film, heading to the dark room to develop it.
Next morning, 8am sharp, a Flight Lieutenant and two Pilot Officers, started work, hunched over their tables, with magnifying glasses, studying the blown-up photos, comparing them with last week’s, noting changes, estimating lengths, widths, identifying locations. By mid-morning, a typed report, accompanied by three photos, was in the hands of the intelligence officers.
Driftless
Donor
Love it! Wartime aerial photographic intelligence was a mix of hair-raising risks, offset by many, many hours of tedious routine of wading through "what am I seeing here?", to arrive at some hints.
Time of day (shadows/no shadows), weather, angle of camera to object being photographed (sometimes veritical is best, sometimes oblique is best), and how much effort is put in to preventing those photos being taken, all played a role.
Time of day (shadows/no shadows), weather, angle of camera to object being photographed (sometimes veritical is best, sometimes oblique is best), and how much effort is put in to preventing those photos being taken, all played a role.
And of course comparison to the previous photos "What has changed and why?" This does mean lots of photos that to the pilot look very similar, and indeed often are, but over time can often reveal a great deal.
I think people forget how intricate they could get with this photography. Sidney Cotton was able to get amazing results and he would 'Cottinize ' Spitfires and Mosquitoes so they could get even more speed out of their aircraft. This would mean they would basically rebuild the planes entirely and colour them a shade of blue that made them harder to spot. I really hope they have some if those planes here.