Worst Roman Emperor?

Worst Roman Emperor?

  • Diocletian

    Votes: 4 3.8%
  • Commodus

    Votes: 26 25.0%
  • Caracalla

    Votes: 2 1.9%
  • Domitian

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Little Boots (Caligula)

    Votes: 26 25.0%
  • Elagabalus

    Votes: 10 9.6%
  • Septimius Severus

    Votes: 1 1.0%
  • Gallienius

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Nero

    Votes: 13 12.5%
  • Maximinus I

    Votes: 3 2.9%
  • Other? Specify.

    Votes: 11 10.6%
  • Honorius... by popular demand.

    Votes: 6 5.8%
  • Valerian

    Votes: 2 1.9%
  • Valens

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    104
  • Poll closed .
His persecution of Christians was so terrible that I consider it a major cause for Christian violence in destroying pagan culture later on. Theirs was a bloody revenge. While Christian institutions later co-opted pagan centres of learning etc., Christianity did destroy a lot of pagan institutions soon after it came into power. I trace that back to a sense of virulent enmity, in which persecutions such as the only by Diocletian (especially that one, even) must be considered the central impetus. Without Diocletian and his persecution, I really feel the earliest two centuries of Christian dominance in Rome would have involved far less destruction of pagan history and legacy, and more early co-opting instead. The world would be richer for it.

I've seen it argued pretty convincingly that it was actually Julian the Apostate who was responsible for souring Christian-pagan relations. Which makes sense when you look at it from a Christian perspective: there they are, everything seems to be going swimmingly, even the Emperors are now Christian, and then bam! the first pagan to get the throne since Diocletian immediately starts bringing back the persecuting times. Clearly those pagans aren't to be trusted, the moment they get power they'll use it against the Church, better make sure they never get power again, etc.

That being said, though, the degree to which there actually was pagan-Christian enmity can also be (and usually is) exaggerated. Julian's anti-Christian laws were almost entirely the result of his own hang-ups, and most pagans thought he was quixotic and slightly ridiculous. Even under staunchly pro-orthodoxy Emperors like Theodosius, who was the one who forbade pagan sacrifices and made Catholicism the state religion, there were high-ranking pagans in the Imperial court, who apparently didn't suffer any disadvantages due to their religion. And, contrary to the claims of "destruction of pagan history and legacy", most Christians in the Empire were eager to preserve their glorious Roman heritage. Virtually every pagan work of literature which survived to the present did so because of all those monks making copies of them.
 
@Tanc49 I agree with you that he may have meant well. He also may not have a been a complete psychopath. ;)
On the other hand, I feel most of his policies were VERY damaging if not immediately, then long-term to the Empire. I also disagree with the oft-repeated notion that one man cannot govern the Empire. As counterexamples I provide Augustus, Vespasian, Titus, Trajan, Antoninus Aurelius, and Aurelian- all men who improved the Empire on their own. Aurelian had to conquer half of it back and he still was doing well! Multiple Emperors is just going to lead to anarchy IMHO. Marcus Aurelius is the one exception, but most of his reign was spent alone. One man cannot govern the whole empire, but one capable man can.
:p


Also... interesting no one has picked Gallienius yet. Gibbon would have you think he is the worst human being ever, with Commodus a close second. ;)
Only included him because of Gibbon. However, most sources today show that Gallienius probably was nowhere near worst.

Domitian also has no votes. Included him so we could get all the meglomanaics on the list...
 

Skallagrim

Banned
I've seen it argued pretty convincingly that it was actually Julian the Apostate who was responsible for souring Christian-pagan relations. Which makes sense when you look at it from a Christian perspective: there they are, everything seems to be going swimmingly, even the Emperors are now Christian, and then bam! the first pagan to get the throne since Diocletian immediately starts bringing back the persecuting times. Clearly those pagans aren't to be trusted, the moment they get power they'll use it against the Church, better make sure they never get power again, etc.

It certainly played a clear role that Julian acted as he did. On the other hand, his actions were considerably less... extreme, than anything Diocletian did. There was this thread on Julian recently, where we discussed his policies and ideas. This was my comment on that subject:

A very good book that sets out Julian's character and his religous ideas and goals is Rowland B. E. Smith's Julian's Gods: Religion and Philosophy in the Thought and Action of Julian the Apostate. -- [snip] -- Julian was not planning to exterminate Christianity, or to fully end religious tolerance. (At least: he wouldn't ban Christianity until he had crucially weakened it and meanwhile consolidated his own religion. Smith argues that Julian obviously hated cChristianity a lot, and would probably have banned it for good at a later stage. Do note that this is Smith's reading of Julian's character, and based on conjecture.)

Certainly, heterodox (and localised) versions of the Roman-Hellenic religion would be tolerated. But the new orthodox version of the Religio Romana would enjoy the favour of the state. Christianity would be tolerated, but hindered/discouraged. For instance, Christians would no longer be allowed to open schools (ensuring that education would fall to the religious schools of the Religio Romana, which the state would fund). Similarly, Christian churches had been tasked with the distribution of alms to the poor. Julian planned to make that the task (and the exclusive right) of his orthodox pagan priesthood and their temples, which would draw the poor to his religion. Finally, there would be a specific tax levied on all Christian churches, to repay the damage that Christians had in the past inflicted on pagans, pagan temples etc.

All this would serve to encourage people to join Julian's religion, while make Christianity rather unattractive. The book I mentioned does a far better job laying out Julian's plans, as well as his ideas and beliefs. But what I've outlined above should really be enough to demonstrate that Julian wasn't stupid enough to ban Christianity outright, but that his plans were actually quite realistic and pragmatic.

...so I'm pretty confident that we can't really equate what Julian did (or tried to do) to the mass-murdering frenzy of Diocletian. Of course, perception is subjective, so to contemporay Christians, Julian may have seemed the Great Evil. (His monniker 'the Apostate' certainly implies that they thought ill of him. It's not like Diocletian is styled "the Persecuter" or something.)

However, in a broader context, I think that Diocletian still led to a divide and a mutual hostility, of which Julian was in truth a latter-day outgrowth (on the pagan side of things).


That being said, though, the degree to which there actually was pagan-Christian enmity can also be (and usually is) exaggerated. Julian's anti-Christian laws were almost entirely the result of his own hang-ups, and most pagans thought he was quixotic and slightly ridiculous. Even under staunchly pro-orthodoxy Emperors like Theodosius, who was the one who forbade pagan sacrifices and made Catholicism the state religion, there were high-ranking pagans in the Imperial court, who apparently didn't suffer any disadvantages due to their religion. And, contrary to the claims of "destruction of pagan history and legacy", most Christians in the Empire were eager to preserve their glorious Roman heritage. Virtually every pagan work of literature which survived to the present did so because of all those monks making copies of them.

Needless to say, I fully agree that it's all far from black and white. It's not like all Christians hated all pagans and vice versa. But I do believe that - in no small part due to the way Diocletian had acted - there was a real hostility that cannot be dismissed. Similarly, I'm certainly not claiming that "the evil Christians destroyed muh pagan learning" (as the historically unfounded 'terrible Christian dark ages'-meme goes). In fact, I will argue to the hilt that Christian monestary culture saved the bulk of classical knowledge in the West after the Western Empire's collapse and the destructive Gothic War of 535–554. My point is more that there was a particular... eagerness to get rid of pagan institutions and works in the earliest two centuries of Christian dominance in Rome, which cooled off afterwards. I link this to an urge for vengeance against the persecutors of Christians, and I blame Diocletian for the worst of that. (My comment in the other thread, quoted above, mentions the damage that Christians had in the past inflicted on pagans, pagan temples etc. -- before Julian got to power. The book I reference goes into detail. Clearly, there was early Christian destruction of pagan institutes, to a certain extent.)


I will admit: perhaps I am biased without realising it. It's clear that I dislike Diocletian for other reasons as well, while I have an intellectual admiration for Julian regardless of his faults. So it's possible that even though I try to look at them objectively, I subconciously treat them uneqally.
 
While probably not the worst, Julian seems kind of an overrated Emperor (at least considering the amount of attention he gets).
@Tanc49 I agree with you that he may have meant well. He also may not have a been a complete psychopath. ;)
On the other hand, I feel most of his policies were VERY damaging if not immediately, then long-term to the Empire. I also disagree with the oft-repeated notion that one man cannot govern the Empire. As counterexamples I provide Augustus, Vespasian, Titus, Trajan, Antoninus Aurelius, and Aurelian- all men who improved the Empire on their own. Aurelian had to conquer half of it back and he still was doing well! Multiple Emperors is just going to lead to anarchy IMHO. Marcus Aurelius is the one exception, but most of his reign was spent alone. One man cannot govern the whole empire, but one capable man can.
:p
Augustus did have Agrippa (and Tiberius at the end of his reign) as essentially a co-Emperor for a few years and his promotion of many of his family members to important positions have led to some to think he was trying to create an Imperial college where multiple men at the top would run the Empire.
 
It certainly played a clear role that Julian acted as he did. On the other hand, his actions were considerably less... extreme, than anything Diocletian did.

Oh sure, I wasn't meaning to imply that Julian was just as bad a persecutor as Diocletian. I was just suggesting that, from the point of view of a Christian in the late fourth century, the fact that the first pagan Emperor in however many decades started passing anti-Christian legislation was likely to prejudice them against the idea of having any more pagan Emperors in the future.

Needless to say, I fully agree that it's all far from black and white. It's not like all Christians hated all pagans and vice versa. But I do believe that - in no small part due to the way Diocletian had acted - there was a real hostility that cannot be dismissed. Similarly, I'm certainly not claiming that "the evil Christians destroyed muh pagan learning" (as the historically unfounded 'terrible Christian dark ages'-meme goes). In fact, I will argue to the hilt that Christian monestary culture saved the bulk of classical knowledge in the West after the Western Empire's collapse and the destructive Gothic War of 535–554. My point is more that there was a particular... eagerness to get rid of pagan institutions and works in the earliest two centuries of Christian dominance in Rome, which cooled off afterwards. I link this to an urge for vengeance against the persecutors of Christians, and I blame Diocletian for the worst of that. (My comment in the other thread, quoted above, mentions the damage that Christians had in the past inflicted on pagans, pagan temples etc. -- before Julian got to power. The book I reference goes into detail. Clearly, there was early Christian destruction of pagan institutes, to a certain extent.)

Which pagan institutions are you talking about? If it's the temples, I agree. If it's pagan learning (like the Academy or whatever), there were those of the "What has Athens to do with Jerusalem?" variety, but their view was never the dominant one AFAIK.

I will admit: perhaps I am biased without realising it. It's clear that I dislike Diocletian for other reasons as well, while I have an intellectual admiration for Julian regardless of his faults. So it's possible that even though I try to look at them objectively, I subconciously treat them uneqally.

I've often thought it's a pity Shakespeare didn't write a play about Julian, he'd probably make a good tragic hero.

ETA: And as an incorrigible old fogey, I've got to admire Julian's pig-headed determination to act as if the last three hundred years of history had never happened and he was still living in the good old days. :p
 
Augustus did have Agrippa (and Tiberius at the end of his reign) as essentially a co-Emperor for a few years and his promotion of many of his family members to important positions have led to some to think he was trying to create an Imperial college where multiple men at the top would run the Empire.

Imperial colleges could work, but only when one of the Emperors was unquestionably top dog. (Cf. Augustus, Marcus Aurelius, Diocletian.) Where the Emperors were about equally powerful, things pretty much always descended into a civil war.
 
Domitian also has no votes. Included him so we could get all the meglomanaics on the list...
Well I am biased toward Diocletian...

For Domitian, wasn't he smeared because he tried to break the illusion of republic and the senators hated him for it?
 
For Domitian, wasn't he smeared because he tried to break the illusion of republic and the senators hated him for it?
Domitian was smeared by history for two reasons. Initially, it had a lot to do with his more autocratic style, as you said. The second reason is Christians were no fans of his, and so later Christian historians further smeared him. A lot of what Hadrian would get credit for-stabilizing and building up the frontier defenses, etc. began under Domitian and was put on hold during Trajan's expansionist reign.
 
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To be completely fair, Honorius did in the end appoint a competent successor to Stilicho. Constantius III was one of Stilicho's men, and was certainly a better general, and arguably just as competent a politician and diplomat. It's just, well, he died. That said, Honorius's rule was disastrous, and Honorius is largely to blame, though Stilicho himself deserves some blame for his self-destructive conflict with Constantinople.
But not before enormous damage was dealt to the empire.
 
While probably not the worst, Julian seems kind of an overrated Emperor (at least considering the amount of attention he gets.

He was a reasonably good Emperor, good general, and a genuinely good man who attempted to do what he thought best in a least disruptive, gradualist manner. Arguably, he had the makings of a good Caesar.

That gets him a nod of respect from most people who care about history.

He gets the attention, because he is perceived as the last possible moment Rome could have taken a very different course and butterflied into a very different future and that makes him one of those (arguably) could have been pivotal people, like Hanibal "almost was" and Vercingetorix putting Julius's head on a stick might have been.

So of course he gets attention here.

Commodus got my vote.
 
He was a reasonably good Emperor, good general, and a genuinely good man who attempted to do what he thought best in a least disruptive, gradualist manner. Arguably, he had the makings of a good Caesar.

That gets him a nod of respect from most people who care about history.

He gets the attention, because he is perceived as the last possible moment Rome could have taken a very different course and butterflied into a very different future and that makes him one of those (arguably) could have been pivotal people, like Hanibal "almost was" and Vercingetorix putting Julius's head on a stick might have been.


So of course he gets attention here.

Commodus got my vote.
Also because he's a Philosopher Emperor like Marcus Aurelius.
 

Skallagrim

Banned
A bit of al a late response (which I'll try to keep brief, since it's getting rather off-topic):

Oh sure, I wasn't meaning to imply that Julian was just as bad a persecutor as Diocletian. I was just suggesting that, from the point of view of a Christian in the late fourth century, the fact that the first pagan Emperor in however many decades started passing anti-Christian legislation was likely to prejudice them against the idea of having any more pagan Emperors in the future.

Totally agreed.


Which pagan institutions are you talking about? If it's the temples, I agree. If it's pagan learning (like the Academy or whatever), there were those of the "What has Athens to do with Jerusalem?" variety, but their view was never the dominant one AFAIK.

It's mostly temples, but there were also recorded instances (although those are more isolated) of Christians attacking the property of the remaining benefactors of those temples. Destroying what collections of "heathen" works such people had, etc. The religion-inspired mob violence of the period is pretty intense. On the other hand, besides the (very deliberate) destruction of pagan temples, such violent incidents were, of course... well, incidents. What interests me about it is that, as far as I can tell, that destructive tendency was only really present in the early phase of Christian ascendancy and domination in Rome. After that (i.e. when the pagans were no longer a threat in any real way), things soon turned and Christian institutions started preserving works that their fellow Christians had sought to burn just a century before. (Note that there were plenty of intellectual Christians who were bent on preserving those works from day one, of course.)


I've often thought it's a pity Shakespeare didn't write a play about Julian, he'd probably make a good tragic hero.

ETA: And as an incorrigible old fogey, I've got to admire Julian's pig-headed determination to act as if the last three hundred years of history had never happened and he was still living in the good old days. :p

Also totally agreed. Julian makes for a very interesting character.
 
An unpopular opinion but I think the worst one was the first one , Octavian Augustus,
I am maybe influenced by reading Neil Gaiman's Sandman but I think he set the trend for Rome's weakening.
 
He was a reasonably good Emperor, good general, and a genuinely good man who attempted to do what he thought best in a least disruptive, gradualist manner. Arguably, he had the makings of a good Caesar.

That gets him a nod of respect from most people who care about history.

He gets the attention, because he is perceived as the last possible moment Rome could have taken a very different course and butterflied into a very different future and that makes him one of those (arguably) could have been pivotal people, like Hanibal "almost was" and Vercingetorix putting Julius's head on a stick might have been.

So of course he gets attention here.

Commodus got my vote.

Julian had the potential to be a good, possibly even great, Emperor, but he ended up spending way too much effort on his religious reforms, which ended up annoying both Christians (who didn't like being excluded from certain jobs, for obvious reasons) and pagans (most of whom had no desire to see their traditional rites subsumed into the kind of ersatz church Julian was pushing). Then he ended up getting killed in an entirely avoidable war against Persia. He certainly wasn't the worst Emperor Rome ever had, but when you consider what he might have achieved his reign does seem a little disappointing.
 
Didius Julianus, for ruining the prestige of the imperial throne forever and paving the way for the Severans to ruin it even further.

If we're talking Dominate era, Petronius Maximus was a piece of shit, too.
 
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