WI: US enters WWII in September 3rd, 1939?

5th September 1939
THE NEW YORK TIMES
WAR!!!!!
Sinking of the SS Athenia
275 US citizens dead


In a move most foul, the day before yesterday September 3rd, at 7:40 PM local time, a submarine of clear German origin (according to eyewitnesses) attacked the transatlantic SS Athenia during its travel between the cities of Glasgow, Scotland, and Montreal, Canada. The ship, numbering 1418 people between passengers and crew, sank after a torpedo launched by the submarine hit its starboard side, creating a leak too big to be repaired soon enough and killing approximately thirty crewmen. The captain's orders to leave the ship weren't, unfortunately, given fast enough for the remaining crew and passengers to leave the ship in time, as other torpedo hit the ship, this time at stern, disabling the propellers and sinking the ship faster. Only 140 people were able to reach the lifeboats alive, to be rescued later by the members of the fishing boat Aiwheen, who are being lauded by the survivors as the ones who saved them.

"It caught us by surprise," says Hannah Baird, on of the ship's waitress. "We knew that there was war, but we wouldn't have ever thought that the Germans would attack so near of England so soon. The first thing we heard was a huge explosion under us, a bit on my left side, then all of us lost balance with the impact. When I managed to stand up, I noticed that the ship was sloping, and I could barely hear the siren telling us to go up on deck. I was in panic and ran upstairs. A few minutes after that, there is other explosion in the back of the ship, and I can't remember much after that until I am in the lifeboat and the Athenia sinking a few hundred yards from us."

Nearby fishermen (among whom are the Aiwheen crewmen) were able to see the attacking submarine reaching the surface several minutes after the Athenia was hit, leaving the scene soon after that. At the closure of this edition, the Irish Government was discussing the possibility of entering the war in the British-French side.

Once the news reached the White House, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt called for a Joint Session of the House of Representatives and the Senate in order to establish what should be done. In spite of the claims from German Ambassador to the United States Hans Thomsen that the attack on the Athenia was an accident and that Germany would be willing to compensate the families of the deceased for their loss, the following speech was given by the President:

"Mr. Vice President, Mr Speaker, members of the Senate and the House of Representatives: yesterday, 3rd September 1939, the ocean-liner SS Athenia was attacked without notice, without provocation and with extreme force by a submarine of the German Navy in the sovereign waters of the nation of the Republic of Ireland. Two-hundred and seventy-five United States citizens, out of the three-hundred who were traveling aboard the Athenia, died alongside one-thousand and twenty-three people from other countries.

In spite of their recent cowardly attack against the nation of Poland and their alliance with the Soviet Union, the United States still hoped that the peace reached the countries of Europe before the bloodshed started at all, and had sent a message to the German Government through our Ambassador Hugh Wilson telling them of our hopes for a fast peace. However, this dastardly attack, as well as the attacks against its own population, shows us that the German Government and its Army and Navy don't have any qualms to attack innocent people, independently of their social extraction and origin. They attacked the ship in spite of the clear markings that signaled its use as a transport ship.

Germany has, therefore, undertaken an offensive against British and American positions in the Atlantic Ocean. The events of the last week, as well as those in the last years, have exposed the true nature of the German National Socialist Worker's Party, the one in the German Government since 1933, as the ones of people against freedom, against peace and against equality of all people.

As Commander-in-Chief of the Army and Navy, I have directed that all measures be taken for our defense should they be necessary, for the possibility exists that German submarines try to attack the Eastern Seaboard ports, in spite of the distance between our country and Germany.

But always will our whole nation remember the character of the onslaught against us and our allies. No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated attack, the American people in their righteous might will win through to absolute victory.

I believe that I interpret the will of the Congress and of the people when I assert that we will not only defend ourselves to the uttermost but will make it very certain that this form of treachery shall never again endanger us.

Hostilities exist. There is no blinking at the fact that our people, our territory and our interests are in grave danger.

With confidence in our armed forces—with the unbounding determination of our people—we will gain the inevitable triumph—so help us God.

I ask that the Congress declare that since the unprovoked and dastardly attack by Germany on Sunday, September 3rd, 1939, a state of war has existed between the United States and the German Reich."

Upon the end of the speech, the whole Joint Session stood up to give a thunderous applause, being followed by a voting: with 416-19 in the House of Representatives and 49-1 in the Senate in favor of war, soon the declaration was signed by President Franklin Roosevelt and sent to the German Government through Hans Thomsen.

Several incidents have been reported to happen in several cities in the United States against people of German origin. The Government has asked for leaving American citizens of said origin unmolested, claiming that there isn't any danger coming from them. Indeed, several German-American people were seen last night in a pacific demonstration in St Patrick's Church while attending a mass for the redemption of the lost souls in the attack.

From the offices of this newspaper, we pray that this war ends with a victory for the United States of America and its allies. May God save America.
 
Very interesting...

I think this has potential, but would need some changes. A British liner probably wouldn't do the trick, but perhaps put an American liner in the same position instead, and it might.
Having some good photos would help inflame the American people..gt them good and riled--just in time for another sinking, this one with someone popular aboard...Lindberg would be a good candidate there.
The senate should have 96 members, not 50...2 for each state. Some might not be there for a short notice vote, almost half gone?

Oh..and it wouldn't be the Republic of Ireland, but the Irish Free State. Republic of Ireland came into existance in 1949, unless you have a significant earlier POD.
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
Interesting idea, but the dog won't hunt.

The U.S. electorate wasn't going to let a war happen that easy. Remember, they didn't even go ape what the USS Ruben James, an American WARSHIP on the high seas, was sunk by a U-boat.

The Japanese were nice enough to kick-start the U.S. at Pearl Harbor. I doubt we would have entered WW II before 1943 otherwise.
 
I agree that the idea is intriguing, but it needs some work. The US didn't go to war after the sinking of the Lusitania in World War I (which this event is clearly modeled upon) and the US of 1939 was substantially more isolationist than the pre-WWI US.
 
How about if it was an amarican liner, with someone famous enough to upset the US public on it? Even that probably wouldnt have been enough, but it stands a better chance.
 
Well, my idea was this: if the Nazis have been cruel enough to kill innocent people who were just traveling back to the US, how soon before they start killing people trying to help others, or even send an attacking force to the continental U.S.? In OTL, the SS Athenia was also sunk, but only 28 people from the 1418 in the ship died. If more had died, it might be enough for Roosevelt and the Congress to vote in favour of declaring war to Germany. Also, the fact that the Germans killed so many people near the coast of a neutral country without regards to the nationality of the people in the ship could drive Ireland to declare war to Germany, too (no matter how much they hate the British, I think that they would rather have the guys you know as tenuous allies than the guys you don't as good allies...). You can consider that there are 2 PODs: the SS Athenia incident ends with more dead people, prompting the USA to declare war on Germany, and Ireland being enough pissed off at the Germans to declare war on them, as well.
 
Interesting idea, but the dog won't hunt.

The U.S. electorate wasn't going to let a war happen that easy. Remember, they didn't even go ape what the USS Ruben James, an American WARSHIP on the high seas, was sunk by a U-boat.

The Japanese were nice enough to kick-start the U.S. at Pearl Harbor. I doubt we would have entered WW II before 1943 otherwise.

hmm... WI we have the Germans launch a sudden attack against everything American sailing in the Atlantic that they can find? Okay, not likely, but it might get us to the starting point...

In any event... if we accept the original premise... what can the US really do at this point? The army is still tiny, several key warships haven't been launched yet... basically, the US will be starting from a position even further behind than they were in OTL in '41... has the US even developed the Grant or Sherman tanks yet?
 
The economic advantage to the Allies would be tremendous.

Further, if the US sends a few hundred fighters to the UK and France, while ramping up domestic production, it could make a real difference to the Luftwaffe.

And if France does still fall is a retreat to North Africa with the fleet and gold reserves not much more likely given US involvment in the war?

In this situation I would predict all of North Africa in the Allied camp by early 1941, several minor Axis powers staying neutral, and Italy in deep trouble facing the loss of Sicily and Sardinia with Free France celebrating the upcoming return to Corsica.

The only question is whether Stalin gets to sit out the war now.:eek:
 
US war production is still feeble in 1939, and will take a while to build up.

I would see a small expeditionary force to France, possibly tying up with the BEF, plus some supporting aircraft.
Quite possibly a big push to license tech like the Merlin engine, and other things, to fill notable gaps in US tech.

Big difference would be at sea. Far more convoy escorts available, probable the U-boats get crushed early on and never really amount to much. Especially with the US building ships as fast as possible.

I dont know if US forces would be enough to make a differnce in France - what I would see is Germany attacking much sooner in the west, as its obvious time is realy against them, in a hope to knock out France and hope the USA/UK sue for peace.
They may (in fact probably wouldnt)never invade the SU, but I suspect Stalin would attack when he thinks he can get the most from it.

Japan would change too - given they are already in a war in Europe, the US probably wouldnt push Japan to the wall in 1941. However see a lot more pressure on Japan after Europe is sorted out
 
The economic advantage to the Allies would be tremendous.

Further, if the US sends a few hundred fighters to the UK and France, while ramping up domestic production, it could make a real difference to the Luftwaffe.

And if France does still fall is a retreat to North Africa with the fleet and gold reserves not much more likely given US involvment in the war?

In this situation I would predict all of North Africa in the Allied camp by early 1941, several minor Axis powers staying neutral, and Italy in deep trouble facing the loss of Sicily and Sardinia with Free France celebrating the upcoming return to Corsica.

The only question is whether Stalin gets to sit out the war now.:eek:

I think that this would be the most likely possibility. Although they don't have many soldiers, the economy would start to gear towards war sooner than in OTL.

In OTL, Hitler had been trying to do his best to stop the United States from entering the war, and the captain of the U-30 submarine (the one that sunk the Athenia) got a good reprimand for doing that, because Hitler thought the incident would bring the US to the war.

Now, since the US are in the war right now and they don't have to face Japan yet, they will be able to concentrate more in Europe, although considering that the US know of Japan's expansionist plans, they will keep an eye on them, and Pearl Harbor might not be as catastrophic as it was in OTL.

I might post a new chapter in this episode soon, but I don't know when...
 
Pearl Harbor is likely not to happen at all. It was very risky in OTL in TTL the US has a lot more weapons and already having "warmed up" armaments production.
 
5th September 1939
THE NEW YORK TIMES
WAR!!!!!
Sinking of the SS Athenia
275 US citizens dead
ASB. It's based on a faulty premise, IMO, that the U.S. entered WW1 based on the sinking of Lusitania. That was the pretext. The real reason was the Zimmermann telegram, which neither the U.S. nor Britain dared reveal they'd read, at risk of revealling Britain could read German codes...:eek::eek: U.S. public sentiment in 1939 was so strongly against getting involved in "another European entanglement", it would take something more akin to Pearl Harbor. A massacre of civilians in a lifeboat:eek::mad: might do it, but AFAIK, that only happened once in the entire Battle of the Atlantic... (Twice, if you count Laconia, but that was by USAAF.)
hmm... WI we have the Germans launch a sudden attack against everything American sailing in the Atlantic that they can find?
Also ASB. Hitler was going out of his way to avoid war with the U.S. in this period OTL. He ordered his U-boats to avoid liners, American DDs, even DDs that appeared American (& after the destroyers-bases deal, quite a few RN DDs did...).
 
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Markus

Banned
Interesting idea, but the dog won't hunt.
The U.S. electorate wasn't going to let a war happen that easy. Remember, they didn't even go ape what the USS Ruben James, an American WARSHIP on the high seas, was sunk by a U-boat.

As far as pretexts go that one would have been lame: Declare war because US war material one UK ships escorted by US warships inside a well known war zone lead to an attack on a US warship.

By the way, I assume FDR did cover up the "details" of the not so neutral "neutrality patrols", didn´t he?
 
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