What if King Bela of Hungary and his son were killed by the Mongol hordes leaving behind a rump hungary and just like Mohacs his heiress marries the King of Bohemia what will happen with the new union of Hungary and Bohemia, how would this union of Hungary and Bohemia fare against Austria, would the Habsburgs still rise?
WI:The Hungarian-Mongol war ends like Mohacs
- Thread starter kasumigenx
- Start date
I've an issue with "rump hungary". While the death of the king could make appears a divided hungary and loss of peripherical regions (Croatia in first place), the Mongols would have trouble to ruin deeply the country especially when they didn't managed to occupy the main strongholds and fortified strategic places.
In a medieval feudal war, what count isn't really the battle itself but the capacity after it to occupy the land.
So maybe could you precise what you mean by that?
In a medieval feudal war, what count isn't really the battle itself but the capacity after it to occupy the land.
So maybe could you precise what you mean by that?
I mean a Hungary that is divided into a Hungary that pays tribute to the mongols and an independent Hungary which is later united with Bohemia, after Hungary reunifies would Hungary desire to gain Transylvania?
What part would exactly be conquered. Trasylvania is probably more likely to remain free than either Alfeld or Transdanubia. Croatia and Bosnia are quite likely to go their separate way. Bosnia with their own local dinasty, while the situation in Croatia could be more complex ranging from feudal anarchy until the strongest emerges victorious and refound the joint kingdom of Croatia-Dalmatia or the main magnates gather and elect a new king, either on of them or a foreigner like what happened 60 years later when the Anjou monarch was supported.
Slovakia and Partium/Crisana are the ones that would be conquered/vassalized by the Mongols while Croatia and the rest of Hungary remain independent from Mongol yoke.
That seem...unlikely that Slovakia part fall totally in Mongol hands. Too close from Bohemia, and if I remember well, more fortified than neighbours.
In fact, I don't see a conquest or vassalisation really doable in this situation. Having a tributary situation Russia-like on the other hand is easily doable.
That the central or eastern part of Hungary pay tribute is possible, tough, but I don't see this situation last when someone rise again in the pannonian plain (turning the whole thing as an hungarian Moscovy) or if Transylvanian manage to cut the roads.
For the consequences, critically if Bohemia tries to claim back part of Hungary, it could turn not really uneasy for them. They didn't have to be afraid of a Mongol control, and could make the junction up to Austria.
Mongols? I don't think so. They failed to control Hungary in first place (Yes, I know, they left because of a sucession crisis. That does not answer about why they didn't came back) because of their numbers and of their relative inadaptation against the feudal model of "putting strongholds everywhere almost for the sake of it".
While, as noted elsewhere, the wooden fortifications present in northern part of the kingdoms was less problematic than the big and stone one of the south (be careful, wooden fortification often means stone and wood mixed, and does not means "that's going to fall easily").
So, Aquilea is a big no-no for me in these conditions.
No, not the Mongols but Bohemia-Hungary vassalizing Aquilea, it would be interesting to see the Premyslids controling Bohemia, Hungary, Aquilea, Caranthia, Styria and perhaps some parts of Switzerland, the Habsburgs get screwed ..
If Bohemia manage to get enough territories to be in position of vassalizing Aquilea by force (yes, diplomatic vassalisation only works in Europa Universalis), you can be sure that neighbours will try to make them regret this.
I mean, all the time, when a country began to confuse diplomacy and strategy with "Crownkemon : gotta catch them all", you have repercussions.
I mean, all the time, when a country began to confuse diplomacy and strategy with "Crownkemon : gotta catch them all", you have repercussions.
The Mongols didn't come to stay back because there was nothing to come back to (Hungary is poor), because the Jochi ulus was alone and perpetually short of men, because Berke fought with all his cousins, and because the Hungarians learned how to resist raiding (which wasn't any different from what they did historically against other nomads, just more and better and mo' betta').
It's completely different situation from a united empire that wants to finish the job.
It's completely different situation from a united empire that wants to finish the job.