If Hitler, the Nazis, and World War 2 were butterflied, how likely is it that Great Britain could go Fascist and how might this happen without a failed Communist/Socialist/Anarchist insurrection? Who would be its leader and would the monarchy remain?
WI Britain Went Fascist
- Thread starter Rich Mullins
- Start date
It's true the BUF weren't strong in our timeline, but that doesn't mean it or some other fascist group couldn't come to power in a timeline in which Hitler and the Nazis don't take power and WW2 is averted.
Depends on the POD but perhaps WW1 ended in a draw and a negotiated peace in which Britain lost face and a "stab in the back" was believed to have occurred.
I think it would be more similar to the congress of Vienna
POD: Germany decisively wins WW1 in 2-3 years, defeating France in mid 1915 and getting something like Brest-Litosvk in late 1916-17.
Full Septemberprogram and naval arms race Germany won't stop w/o parity.
Whether 'fascism' would be the right word, IDK. But no more European balance of power means Britain goes extra-militarist. Fast.
Full Septemberprogram and naval arms race Germany won't stop w/o parity.
Whether 'fascism' would be the right word, IDK. But no more European balance of power means Britain goes extra-militarist. Fast.
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I'd want a bit more specifics to flesh things out more, but I suppose that's workable. Not particularly likely, I should emphasize, but possible if the post-war years go badly enough. To answer your OP questions, the monarchy probably stays because fascism makes most of its allies among conservatives wanting to preserve the existing social order. And the transition wouldn't happen quickly. It would depend on continued malaise and disappointment in the realm of foreign policy especially, giving people the sense that the war was for nothing. Ireland would be an obvious potential sore point, and the Unionists in Ulster would be obvious allies for fascists in England.
As for their leader, so much time needs to pass from the POD that you could justify a lot of people. Moseley is kind of out of fashion for this role in timelines for being too obvious, and I think the time when it would be Winston has also passed. Apparently there was a trend of having it be George Orwell for a while, for maximum irony, and I saw T.E. Lawrence used in one timeline a while back. A woman would be unconventional, but Rotha Lintorn-Orman was one of the leaders of the British fascist movement IOTL, and armored warfare pioneer J.F.C. Fuller had some far-right connections AIUI. For ironic choices, I kind of want to see Lloyd-George in this role to reflect his mystifying support of Hitler in the 1930s IOTL.
Garrison
Donor
It really does mean that. Without any external 'success' to point to Fascisms tenuous presence in Britain would all but vanish. Britain is a stable democracy and I see no prospect of that changing barring some apocalyptic military defeat or other catastrophe. Frankly if the Great Depression couldn't nudge Britain in an authoritarian direction I'm not sure what could.
Just because Germany doesn't go Nazi by no means shows that Fascism has had no success. Italy, Austria, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Finland, and France could all have gone Fascist. Also, perhaps the Irish War of Independence draws in Scottish and Welsh insurgents which would prolong the war, ensure total Irish independence, spark uprisings in India, Burma, and South Africa and expose deep fissures in the Union.
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Garrison
Donor
Again Britain is a stable democratic nation of long standing, you are going to need a heck of a POD for them to go fascist. And Welsh and Scottish insurgents? If any Scots went to fight in Ireland they would almost certainly be siding with the Unionist/Loyalist side, and probably wearing British army uniforms.
As has been said, it's difficult to see the UK going fascist, and you'd need some pretty dramatic PoDs to achieve it. The closest plausible thing would be Mosley never joining the BUF and rising to become a Labour (or even Tory or Liberal) Prime Minister instead. He'd be kicked out by his own party if his views develop as they did IOTL, but if he retains his pre-fascist views, then he would most likely govern in a style of an authoritarian demagogue. It would be more like Huey Long than Hitler though.