WI/AHC: Improved Manchester and no Lancaster?

I agree with that for all the reasons that you've provided.
TYVM.
The most important being that the Sunderland wasn't a proven design in November 1936.
Agreed. My feeling is, unless you're desperate or brave, you won't order off the drawing board, & Ottawa wasn't.
Additional advantages of building Catalians instead of Sunderlands are that it has two engines instead of four and it might require fewer raw materials & man hours
I saw that, too, but figured it was obvious to you enough I didn't need to say it. I was right.;) (Or I thought of it & forgot to mention it, which is equally possible.:openedeyewink: )
That would allow Vickers to terminate Wellington production in 1939 after completing 180th aircraft and start building Warwicks in 1939. If I'm right about the Warwick being an enlarged Wellington that could be built on the same production line the first production Warwick to be completed would be L4770 built at Chester (instead of its first Wellington) and it would be delivered to the RAF on 4th August 1939. ...unless we also get a Griffon-Windsor sooner than the OTL Merlin-Windsor. And/or the Chester factory doesn't re-tool to build Avro bombers sooner.
I picture the Griffon Windsor sooner, but I have a tendency to want to push things as early as possible, so take that with a few grains of salt. ;)

Dropping the Wimpy after contract completion makes sense, too, but it makes me wonder if the Air Ministry doesn't just re-engine it & continue, rather than switch. War hasn't (quite) started, but are they getting nervous enough not to risk it? (As I'm reading the timing, end of contract is cutting it pretty fine, though they can't know it yet TTL, can they?) Or is the performance improvement enough, & the production changes small enough, to warrant it?
I suspect that the Supermarine Stranraers built IOTL were beyond Canadian capacity at the time

If that's correct I don't see why Short Brothers couldn't have provided Canadian Vickers with the necessary assistance to build Sunderlands ITTL instead of Supermarine providing the necessary assistance to build Stranraers IOTL.
I don't disagree Shorts could do it. I find it more a matter of "Would Ottawa?" given the other option(s).

I'm getting a strong disbelief based on the fairly nascent state of Canada's aviation industry. Building licenced F3Fs means Hurricanes aren't an issue. PBYs, when (IIRC) we built Vimys, also not a huge leap. Going all the way to Sunderlands... If I read your TL, & your setup for it, I could be convinced (since you clearly know it better than me)--but I wouldn't try it.
 
My feeling is, unless you're desperate or brave, you won't order off the drawing board, & Ottawa wasn't.
London wasn't brave or desperate either. However, it didn't stop the Air Ministry ordering many aircraft "off the drawing board". These included 11 Saro A.33s and 11 Sunderlands in March 1936, which was nearly 18 months before the prototypes flew (14th October 1937 and 16th October 1937 respectively).

Furthermore, the rest of the paragraph that you were quoting said.
OTOH the Sunderland's cousin the Short Empire Flying Boat (which was similar to the Sunderland, but not the same) was a proven design so I think that Ottawa (or RCAF, whoever) could have ordered Sunderlands in November 1936 without reasonable fears of the type being a failure. (The E.F.B. first flew on 3rd July 1936, was delivered in 22nd October 1936 and made its first revenue flight on 6th February 1937.)
However, it might have made more sense if I had written.
OTOH the Sunderland's cousin the Short Empire Flying Boat (which was similar to the Sunderland, but not the same) was a proven design in November 1936. Therefore, Ottawa could have ordered Sunderlands in November 1936 and been confident that they would be a success. (The E.F.B. first flew on 3rd July 1936, was delivered in 22nd October 1936 and made its first revenue flight on 6th February 1937.)
I saw that, too, but figured it was obvious to you enough I didn't need to say it. I was right.;) (Or I thought of it & forgot to mention it, which is equally possible.:openedeyewink: )
IOTL Boeing Canada and Canadian Vickers built 731 Catalinas and 40 Stranraers 1938-45 and ITTL I want these firms to build 1,256 Sunderlands instead. This will require more labour and raw materials that Canada might not have.

This has to be put in the context because Canada built about 16,200 aircraft 1940-45 IOTL which included 6,300 built 1940-42 and about 9,900 built 1943-45. Therefore, it might not be so hard to build 1,256 large four-engine flying boats (Sunderlands) instead of 771 smaller two-engine aircraft (Catalinas and Stranraers).

Plus ITTL we're increasing the capacity of the Canadian aircraft industry by having the RAF and RCAF order more aircraft in Canada sooner and in larger quantities. One of the objects of these exercises was to enable the Canadian aircraft industry to build Sunderlands in large numbers during the war or failing that build Catalinas in even larger numbers than OTL.
 
London wasn't brave or desperate either.
I have to disagree. Maybe not desperate, but brave enough to do it OTL, when Ottawa, I don't think, would. Maybe "confident" is a better word, sure enough they'd get a good design. I've never felt like Ottawa was willing to take many risks that way.
This will require more labour and raw materials that Canada might not have.
I think the materials are there. You're right to be concerned about labor. From what I'm seeing, you're converting from type to type in a reasonable way, not going from 1000 Hurricanes to 1000 Lancs. I'm seeing, perhaps, a small increase in labor demand, not a huge one.

Yes, there was an OTL conscription crisis. Starting this earlier, I have the sense production will have peaked & it would be possible to reduce the labor force in late '43 & into '44 to answer the demand for troops. I also think, with good enough management of the problem, enough women, & enough Quebecois, could be hired into these jobs to avoid a military manpower crisis. Maybe...
 
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I picture the Griffon Windsor sooner, but I have a tendency to want to push things as early as possible, so take that with a few grains of salt. ;)

Dropping the Wimpy after contract completion makes sense, too, but it makes me wonder if the Air Ministry doesn't just re-engine it & continue, rather than switch.
It will take longer to redesign the Wellington to take the Griffon than it will to put the Griffon-Warwick into production.

IOTL:
  • Development of the Merlin-Wellington began in January 1938. The prototype flew in March 1939 and the Mk II went into production in October 1940 at Vickers, Weybridge.
  • Detail design of the Hercules-Wellington began in January 1938 too. The prototype flew in May 1939 and the Mk III went into production in October 1940 at Vickers, Blackpool.
  • The contract to develop the Twin Wasp Wellington was signed on 9th September 1939 and the prototype flew at Vickers, Chester in December 1940. This factory built a total of 220 Mk IVs (including the prototype) in 2 batches. The first 25 were delivered between December 1940 and May 1941. The other 195 were delivered between June 1941 and March 1942.
If the Air Ministry authorised development of a Griffon-Wellington in January 1938 ITTL my guess (based on the above) is that the prototype wouldn't fly until May 1939 and the first production aircraft wouldn't be delivered until October 1940.

The Warwick had been in development since October 1935 and because we're expecting development of the Griffon to be less troublesome than the Vulture's the first flight will be in the summer of 1938 instead of August 1939. If production contracts are placed at the same time as the second Weybridge and first Chester Wellington contracts it will be delivered to the RAF in August 1939 (from Chester) and November 1939 (from Weybridge).

Therefore, I think the Air Ministry will order the Griffon-Warwick into production because it will be available one year before the Griffon-Wellington.
War hasn't (quite) started, but are they getting nervous enough not to risk it? (As I'm reading the timing, end of contract is cutting it pretty fine, though they can't know it yet TTL, can they?)
This is a non-issue.

The decision to put the Griffon-Warwick into production will be taken nearly 18 months before the declaration of war. Furthermore, my understanding is that when the decision would be made, war wasn't expected until the early 1940s.
  • The first Vickers, Weybridge contract was placed in August 1936. The 180 aircraft in this batch were delivered between October 1938 and August 1939.
  • The second Vickers, Weybridge contract was placed in May 1938. The 120 aircraft in this batch were delivered between November and December 1939.
  • 200 Wellingtons were ordered from Gloster in October 1937. This contract was transferred to Vickers, Chester which delivered the aircraft between August 1939 and August 1940.
  • The order to start Wellington production at Vickers, Blackpool wasn't given until December 1939 and the first aircraft was delivered in August 1940.
ITTL the decision to order the Griffon-Warwick into production at Vickers, Weybridge would be made in May 1938 when 120 would be ordered instead of the factory's second Wellington contract. This is nearly 6 months before the Munich Crisis, nearly a year before the German occupation of Bohemia-Moravia and nearly a year-and-a-half before war broke out. AFAIK at this time the expectation in the spring of 1938 was that war would not come until the early 1940s.

The Air Ministry will order Griffon-Warwicks from from Gloster in October 1937 and transfer the contract to Vickers, Chester at a later date. October 1937 was nearly two years before war broke out so I think time will not be an issue at the time the decision was made. Furthermore, it would have been just as hard for these factories to tool-up to build Warwicks as it was to tool-up to build Wellingtons ITTL. Ditto for Vickers, Blackpool.
Or is the performance improvement enough, & the production changes small enough, to warrant it?
Yes, the improvement in performance is big enough. These are the performance figures for the main marks of Wellington bomber from the copies of the "Fight" series of official histories of the RAF in World War II from the Hyperwar website.
AircraftMaximum SpeedService CeilingRange and Associated Bomb Load
m.p.h. at feetfeetmiles—lb.
Wellington IC235 at 15,50018,0002,550—1,000 or 1,200—4,500
Wellington II247 at 17,00020,0002,450—1,250 or 1,400—4,500
Wellington III255 at 12,50019,5002,200―1,500 or 1,540―4,500
Wellington IV229 at 13,00020,0002,180—500 or 980—4,000
Wellington X255 at 14,50019,6002,085―1,500 or 1,470―4,500

According to the Puthams on Vickers aircraft the Warwick Mk II (with two 2,000hp Centaurus IV engines) had a maximum speed of 300 mph at 20,000ft. Its range was 2,075 miles at 185 mph at 15,000ft. It could carry 8,000lb of bombs. Unfortunately, it doesn't say whether the range of 2,075 miles was when it was carrying 8,000lbs of bombs. My guess is that the early marks of Griffon-Warwick would have had similar performance.

Yes, the production changes are small enough to warrant re-tooling of the Weybridge factory.

Re-tooling is a non-issue for Blackpool and Chester because they weren't switching from Wellingtons to Warwicks. They were building Warwicks from the start.
 
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