"What Madness Is This?" Volume I: The Union Forever

[Worffan101]

I can imagine Viktor battling the revolutionaries with wave upon wave of Asian conscripts

In the post-industrial period, there simply aren't enough steppe peoples in the world to post a threat to settled powers, or to use human wave tactics like that. Steppe nomads kinda have a population cap, and it's a lot lower than an industrial European power's population cap.

Not to mention, the Russians and Chinese basically squeezed them and crushed them and slaughtered them for 3-4 centuries until they were carved up and made to serve their new masters for the most part.

So I looked it up and discovered Lysenko was actually born in what is now (drumroll) UKRAINE! If you thought the Illuminati having a Council of Jehovah analogue and strange occultist beliefs was weird, they could have their own version of Scientific Marxism!

Combine Lysenko with Ilya Ivanov. An insane mad scientist who seeks to "rationally create" an "illuminated republican" supersoldier by replacing bits of people with bits of animals and insists that some day he will actually succeed and get something that lives longer than a week, or a successful reproduction.

 

[Ameroboto]

Meanwhile in China;
Oh no, not again.
Meanwhile in the Netherlands;
Are we like the only nation that isn't collapsing.
Meanwhile in Persia:
Yes the great Satan is dying, ha, ha...we're next aren't we.
Meanwhile in Korea:
I sense a great disturbance in the force

I'm hoping for MonBol Russia here, Viktor's boy decides "I can work this to my advantage" and becomes the Illuminati head.

Meanwhile in Norway:
Hey, Finland, ever considered of getting both Karelia and Kola back from the Ruskies? If you want, the Baltic states can be yours as well. You have to do us just one little favor...

 

[Born in the USSA]

Combine Lysenko with Ilya Ivanov. An insane mad scientist who seeks to "rationally create" an "illuminated republican" supersoldier by replacing bits of people with bits of animals and insists that some day he will actually succeed and get something that lives longer than a week, or a successful reproduction.

What if Lysenko (some version of him anyway) pioneers "real" science in a twist on his OTL reputation? He perfects what we would call the modern synthesis (evolution by natural selection achieved through Mendelian inheritance), his big problem is that he doesn't have the technology to effectively understand or edit genes but gives it his all anyway. People end up getting a bit sick but not developing superhuman physical or mental strength. In the fascist sphere *Lysenko is considered an insane monster for insisting *gasp* that "degeneration from a divinely ordained Pinnacle race" isn't real science.

 

[Sunstone77]

What if Lysenko (some version of him anyway) pioneers "real" science in a twist on his OTL reputation? He perfects what we would call the modern synthesis (evolution by natural selection achieved through Mendelian inheritance), his big problem is that he doesn't have the technology to effectively understand or edit genes but gives it his all anyway. People end up getting a bit sick but not developing superhuman physical or mental strength. In the fascist sphere *Lysenko is considered an insane monster for insisting *gasp* that "degeneration from a divinely ordained Pinnacle race" isn't real science.

To keep the Madness flavour, Lysenko can also wrap his theories of evolution up in nationalistic rhetoric, ie that Russians are the most evolved because the harshness of Russia has forced them to adapt and become strong

 

[Born in the USSA]

To keep the Madness flavour, Lysenko can also wrap his theories of evolution up in nationalistic rhetoric, ie that Russians are the most evolved because the harshness of Russia has forced them to adapt and become strong

Hell he could even play up the enlightenment (relative to the time period) of the Kievan Rus as a means of political propaganda. The descent of Russia (and the world in general) into authoritarianism isn't presented as a divinely mandated inexorable decline, but rather an adaptation to environmental and social pressures fostered by the secular and religious nobility. Freed of those pressures, the People's Illuminated Republic of the Rus has relieved itself of the khanist yoke, and is recovering to its former health and vibrancy under the urgent pressure exerted by the people. Every man a god!

*Edit- I also really like the suggestion of propaganda about Russians being strong because of adaptation! It's conceptually the exact opposite of the Strong Man Theory but has the same basic result (Illuminism in a nutshell I guess )

 

[Sunstone77]

*Edit- I also really like the suggestion of propaganda about Russians being strong because of adaptation! It's conceptually the exact opposite of the Strong Man Theory but has the same basic result (Illuminism in a nutshell I guess )

Some ideas to give Lysenkoism(?) is own flavour and make it a little different from Scientific Marxism and Strong Man theory

• While the Russian people are the most evolved because of challenges of Russia has forced them to adapt, other races can be uplifted by breeding with Russians and passing their advanced adapted traits on to the next generation. (Encouraging race mixing as opposed to Scientific Marxisms strict segregation)
• The worker, by simple fact of being the largest and hardest working strata in society, are the most evolved and well adapted.
• Nobility and upper classes are too inbred and have to little genetic diversity to evolve and should be culled.

On a related note, I proposed waaay back was the idea of Adaptive Intelligent Design (ie God created the world and all the life in it, but also gave life the ability to adapt and improve to changes) taking off in the Catholic Bloc. By combining Lamarckism and Catholic doctrine, it can help prevent Europa falling behind the RU scientifically while keep the catholic flavour. Could be applied to other fields as well, like theoretical physics ( “Numbers are as close as we get to the handwriting of god”)

One thing about madness 1.0 was how the RU endlessly made scientific leaps while Europe was always playing catch-up. Made them feel toothless and weak. I really hope Napo turns that around this edition.

*quietly hopes Ireland is the one who invents the atomic bomb this time around*

 

[Simeon]

Also, with the Chinese Republic being invaded from the North, wouldn't it restart Hakka-Punti hostilities in the South?

 

[HIM Dogson]

Combine Lysenko with Ilya Ivanov. An insane mad scientist who seeks to "rationally create" an "illuminated republican" supersoldier by replacing bits of people with bits of animals and insists that some day he will actually succeed and get something that lives longer than a week, or a successful reproduction.

 

[President Earl Warren]

On a related note, I proposed waaay back was the idea of Adaptive Intelligent Design (ie God created the world and all the life in it, but also gave life the ability to adapt and improve to changes) taking off in the Catholic Bloc. By combining Lamarckism and Catholic doctrine, it can help prevent Europa falling behind the RU scientifically while keep the catholic flavour. Could be applied to other fields as well, like theoretical physics ( “Numbers are as close as we get to the handwriting of god”)

Jesuit Super Scientists for the win.

 

[Born in the USSA]

Jesuit Super Scientists for the win.

You could even argue that allowing free will allows instability in the natural order, creating a mechanism to explain away how the world changes if God made everything perfectly, coupled with obviously perfect divine foresight.

Only God a man! *It's a little tortured I'll admit, but it's Catholic doctrine distilled into one sentence, all the better for resistance graffiti against the Illuminati*

 

[Time Enough]

Well this has certainly been an interesting series of events. I like that the old Empires are being replaced with new ones. The Old Imperialism of the Kaisers and Tsar's are ending, the new Imperialism of Illumanism is only just beginning.

Also I can see the Illumanist movement quickly creating ideas similar to the obliteration of self preached by EastAsia in 1984, or the become obsessed with Futurism to a ridiculous degree.

 

[Gar48]

Well this has certainly been an interesting series of events. I like that the old Empires are being replaced with new ones. The Old Imperialism of the Kaisers and Tsar's are ending, the new Imperialism of Illumanism is only just beginning.

Also I can see the Illumanist movement quickly creating ideas similar to the obliteration of self preached by EastAsia in 1984, or the become obsessed with Futurism to a ridiculous degree.

Maybe they will start destroying monuments that are considered too connected to the old religious and political istitutions

 

[Born in the USSA]

Maybe they will start destroying monuments that are considered too connected to the old religious and political istitutions

They're burning down historic churches and palaces so they're on the right track

 

[Born in the USSA]

Well this has certainly been an interesting series of events. I like that the old Empires are being replaced with new ones. The Old Imperialism of the Kaisers and Tsar's are ending, the new Imperialism of Illumanism is only just beginning.

Also I can see the Illumanist movement quickly creating ideas similar to the obliteration of self preached by EastAsia in 1984, or the become obsessed with Futurism to a ridiculous degree.

 

[Perfidious Albion]

Also I can see the Illumanist movement quickly creating ideas similar to the obliteration of self preached by EastAsia in 1984, or the become obsessed with Futurism to a ridiculous degree.

Maybe they will start destroying monuments that are considered too connected to the old religious and political istitutions

On the one hand, you're right that this is the Madness-verse and therefore the Illuminists will go mad and evil. Of course they will; it's the nature of the storytelling exercise. 'What Madness Is This'. The clue is in the name.

On the other hand, considering just how evil the old order has been in TTL—stripping away political rights and parliaments, making almost zero concessions to any kind of democracy or human rights, still intent on treating people like serfs to all-powerful tinpot dictators and theocratic churches, embracing racism even more than in OTL, starting wars that blatantly were designed to benefit the aforesaid ruling classes that left millions of ordinary people dead, and generally treating ordinary people worse than dirt—I think that, in principle, it is thoroughly justified to reject them and reject everything they stand for. In OTL people could point to positive aspects of the past that should be admired and protected. In TTL, where everything since the beginning of the 19th century has been a shitshow horror-story of 'from bad to worse', it is entirely understandable that people would tell the old order and its old elites "well, fuck you then, we want to throw out your whole system and the whole sorry lot of you".

When the past has been so terrible, nostalgia wouldn't be very attractive. Of course plenty of people would be looking to an idealised future, rather than idealising a past that's been relentlessly shitting on them from a great height. The old elites in TTL—whether absolute-monarchist or fascist—haven't been treating ordinary people with anything that slightly resembles basic human decency. The ordinary people don't; but those elites deserve every minute of the hell that's coming their way.

Moderate reformism—accepting the legitimacy of the state and trying to work within its structures to improve conditions for ordinary people—can work in the circumstances when the old order has at least some mechanism for ordinary people to attempt to change things without violence. When the system is an ossified secret-police-state which will murder or jail you for the slightest peaceful disagreement, reformism isn't just a losing proposition, it's outright moronic. The only way to make change is to junk the system: revolution.

 

[halfcoop]

On the one hand, you're right that this is the Madness-verse and therefore the Illuminists will go mad and evil. Of course they will; it's the nature of the storytelling exercise. 'What Madness Is This'. The clue is in the name.

On the other hand, considering just how evil the old order has been in TTL—stripping away political rights and parliaments, making almost zero concessions to any kind of democracy or human rights, still intent on treating people like serfs to all-powerful tinpot dictators and theocratic churches, embracing racism even more than in OTL, starting wars that blatantly were designed to benefit the aforesaid ruling classes that left millions of ordinary people dead, and generally treating ordinary people worse than dirt—I think that, in principle, it is thoroughly justified to reject them and reject everything they stand for. In OTL people could point to positive aspects of the past that should be admired and protected. In TTL, where everything since the beginning of the 19th century has been a shitshow horror-story of 'from bad to worse', it is entirely understandable that people would tell the old order and its old elites "well, fuck you then, we want to throw out your whole system and the whole sorry lot of you".

When the past has been so terrible, nostalgia wouldn't be very attractive. Of course plenty of people would be looking to an idealised future, rather than idealising a past that's been relentlessly shitting on them from a great height. The old elites in TTL—whether absolute-monarchist or fascist—haven't been treating ordinary people with anything that slightly resembles basic human decency. The ordinary people don't; but those elites deserve every minute of the hell that's coming their way.

Moderate reformism—accepting the legitimacy of the state and trying to work within its structures to improve conditions for ordinary people—can work in the circumstances when the old order has at least some mechanism for ordinary people to attempt to change things without violence. When the system is an ossified secret-police-state which will murder or jail you for the slightest peaceful disagreement, reformism isn't just a losing proposition, it's outright moronic. The only way to make change is to junk the system: revolution.

But the problem in Revolutions is that they rarely promise any long term stability. In our timeline we only have a few really successful revolutions that established a system that was not weakens or collapsed into something else. Really the only time it works is in succession, like the USA, India, or African nations, and those are revolution of local elites versus external elites not movement of the people. While things like the French, Russian, 1848 and Arab spring revolutions made progress on some fronts but was also worse of in others.

And in madness verse they don’t even have the succession wars being that stable with the likes of USA collapsing

The revolution eating its children is a common occurrence in these conflicts, and today’s moderate revolutionary becomes tomorrow reactionary. It’s just what happens

 

[Time Enough]

Moderate reformism—accepting the legitimacy of the state and trying to work within its structures to improve conditions for ordinary people—can work in the circumstances when the old order has at least some mechanism for ordinary people to attempt to change things without violence. When the system is an ossified secret-police-state which will murder or jail you for the slightest peaceful disagreement, reformism isn't just a losing proposition, it's outright moronic. The only way to make change is to junk the system: revolution.

Yeah, I can see the Illumanti movement being good at first, certainly there ideas and ambitions which come across as kind of like a mix of Anarchism, Anarcho-Syndicalism and Socialism in terms of politics which are fairly pogressive alongside some odd views on the afterlife and would be shot in the arm that this world could need. Part of me hopes it becomes a Socialist Futurist Utopian project but I doubt it.

In a world where Democracy is dead, Illumanism is the next best thing in theory.

 

[Anarcho-Occultist]

I imagine there's a good chance that there are going to be a lot of conspiracy theories backed by the other governments surrounding a vast network of shadowy Illumanists seeking to subvert the world order. Thing is here they might be right (though from our perspective at least theoretically they are pursuing something preferrable to the status quo).

 

[HIM Dogson]

Personally I think Europa has some hope for reform. All is not completely lost.

I mean, it's definitely not going to happen, because this is the Madnessverse. But in that brief period before the Evolaite boot stomped on everyone's faces, there was hope.

 

[Imperolo]