"What Madness Is This?" Volume I: The Union Forever

[Napoleon53]

Could someone post an OTL blank map of North America circa right before the Louisiana Purchase? I want to play around with ideas in my head.

 

[SuperZtar64]

Could someone post an OTL blank map of North America circa 1812? I want to play around with ideas in my head.

I think your best bet would be to simply use the 1812 Worlda:

But if you want the good North America map:

I could definitely whip something up by tomorrow evening!

 

[Napoleon53]

But if you want the good North America map:


I could definitely whip something up by tomorrow evening!

Yes! If you could make it match the story up to 1826, that would be fantastic. I want to retconn that horrible weird blip on top of VA on top of my ancienttt 6 year old map. It's such a headache to deal with and I don't remember what I was thinking when I put it there.

 

[SuperZtar64]

Yes! If you could make it match the story up to 1826, that would be fantastic. I want to retconn that horrible weird blip on top of VA on top of my ancienttt 6 year old map. It's such a headache to deal with and I don't remember what I was thinking when I put it there.

No problem! So, to clarify, you want me to make a map of North America in 1826 in this timeline? I can do ya one better, I can make an 1801, 1812, and 1826, how about that? And actually, scratch the tomorrow evening. I'll try to get em all done tonight.

 

[Napoleon53]

No problem! So, to clarify, you want me to make a map of North America in 1826 in this timeline? I can do ya one better, I can make an 1801, 1812, and 1826, how about that? And actually, scratch the tomorrow evening. I'll try to get em all done tonight.

That would be a joy indeed! In 1826, I plan of France ceding the disputed portion of Maine to the USA as a meager reward, so go ahead and include that for 1826. And no weird Virginia blip. lol

 

[SuperZtar64]

When were Michigania, Chersonesus, and Iowai admitted to the Union?

 

[Napoleon53]

When were Michigania, Chersonesus, and Iowai admitted to the Union?

I'll DM you.

 

[Tyche]

I was only vaguely aware of the original Madness, but I’m really digging this reboot so far!

 

[highwayhoss]

What if the Council of Jehovah decrees "Plural Marriage" is acceptable sometime in the, oh, 1850s or 60. This sets up the North against the South with the Yankees preaching "an end to slavery!" (as pretext for a land-grab as well, perhaps at least Maryland) and the Southrons preaching "An end to Northern apostasy" (because the North is flipping nuts and has to be stopped). In the ensuing bloodbath, which might end in eventual Union victory or a long drawn out stalemate, the population is depleted enough to where the Yankees just go ahead and accept Plural Marriage is the way forward to rebuild and crush the South once and for all (maybe around the turn of the century or 1910s). Perhaps a real dud of a Bonaparte is on the Imperial throne and dealing with Russian or Prussian problems at that point and bungles North America, leaving the Southrons with minimal assistance. This would result in America seizing perhaps Louisiana, Nova Scotia or something as well, much earlier than Classic, giving them time to build into a true superpower with access to the Pacific and the riches of South America, where Goodyear Enterprises would secure rubber and oil, making way for a future unstoppable war machine. The millions of Inferiors added in by conquering Central America and maybe the upper tip of South America like Classic would further fuel the supply of almost free cheap Inferior labor long after the supply of immigrants from ireland and the Slavic countries dries up. The war against the South could also be started by the weird blips of Virginia into RU territory from ancient colonial claims.

A few of my thoughts:
I was thinking maybe "plural marriage" would arise in the aftermath of the 1812 Rampage; in the wake of the Rampage (plus coordinated Indian uprisings in the Old Northwest) a disproportionate number of the dead were military age males. As a result, several areas of the RU have more women then men. To spur population growth, a number of states allow "Plural marriages", combined with incentives for immigration for "superior race" males. Many churches denounce the practice, but the emerging AFC, as a result of Burr's "vision", comes out in support, arguing that needed to breed more "superior" people.

Strictly for demographic and economic reasons, I imagine polygamy would still be reserved largely for elites and people substantially favored by the Church hierarchy. I can easily imagine multiple wives and broods of children being a mark of status and aspirational goal as a result, because they're walking signals that you're 1) prosperous enough to support a family that size, 2) have the favor of God to be 'blessed' in such a manner, and in a chauvinistic patriarchal society like the 19th-century RU, 3) are overflowing with 'masculine prowess and virility' to head such a household. It'll also be interesting to see the effects of that kind of society on its neighbors, as I remember the Southron states were much more progressive (generally speaking) by the time of their conquest in the OG timeline, and having the RU promoting polygamy might be a further spur for the women's movements in those countries.

I agree with this; I am also thinking that the AFC might promote some form of the "Prosperity Gospel" in conjunction with Polygamy, where wealth is equated with the favor of God.

 

[Flashman]

I actually think plural marriage should only be formally announced by the 1920s, as a reaction to the growing women's movements of the outside world. Before that, it should only be practiced by the Council of Jehovah (which incidentally I think should take more time to form).

 

[Napoleon53]

By the 1920s the Union would be populated enough that they wouldn't need plural marriage, and there is no guarantee women's rights would or wouldn't be popular by this TLs 1920s. The Council of Jehovah is actually installed by Burr for continuity of Church government after his death. I would imagine it is largely based on Freemasonry. I have a whole chapter planned for them. They are literally some of Burr's most trusted advisors. They probably number around 12 at first, likely old-school circuit-riders, before letting more into their ranks by the mid-1800s. They don't need time to form as they are literally created by Burr because he didn't want one single successor to be able to change the church at will like he could. "I'm divine, they're not." They're basically the Church Congress.

The polygamy chapter is now retconned and removed from threadmarks. Aside from minor stuff like that blip on top of Virginia in the old map, I dislike retconning anything of substance and I don't want my TL to be confusing, so I will attempt to not do this again. Plural marriage will return in the 1800s, just not yet.

 

[Flashman]

The Council of Jehovah is actually installed by Burr for continuity of Church government after his death. I would imagine it is largely based on Freemasonry. I have a whole chapter planned for them. They are literally some of Burr's most trusted advisors. They probably number around 12 at first, before letting more into their ranks by the mid-1800s. They don't need time to form as they are literally created by Burr because he didn't want one single successor to be able to change the church at will like he could. "I'm divine, they're not." They're basically the Church Congress.

But that's just it: for what is at this point ultimately still a Protestant and virulently antipapist organization, I would think the hypocrisy of immediately forming what amounts to a congress of cardinals would become clear. I think it would be a rather informal organization initially, with the mystical trappings growing as time goes on.

 

[Napoleon53]

But that's just it: for what is at this point ultimately still a Protestant and virulently antipapist organization, I would think the hypocrisy of immediately forming what amounts to a congress of cardinals would become clear. I think it would be a rather informal organization initially, with the mystical trappings growing as time goes on.

That was the intention. They're the "anti-cardinals," just as how the title "Reverend-Colonel" is essentially "AFC Pope." Just because the Catholic church uses a type of organizational set-up doesn't mean it can't be "saved" and used "for God's glory." And though described lightly, there was a whole 16 year period of 1813-1829 where Burr could have had the idea in his head for the Council.

Also, we're dealing with a depressed, defeated nation's jingoistic cult around a delusional shell-shock and trauma victim who bleeds out his ears and nose on a regular basis. If he says "Council of Jehovah" there's probably going to be one. lol Sure, some people won't like it and will give up on AFC, but their children or grandchildren will eventually come around.

 

[SuperZtar64]

Ladies and gentlemen, I am pleased to announce the rebirth of the What Madness is This? Map series! If @Napoleon53 has any corrections they will be rectified ASAP.

North America, 1801

 

[Flashman]

That was the intention. They're the "anti-cardinals," just as how the title "Reverend-Colonel" is essentially "AFC Pope." Just because the Catholic church uses a type of organizational set-up doesn't mean it can't be "saved" and used "for God's glory."

Also, we're dealing with a depressed, defeated nation's jingoistic cult around a delusional shell-shock and trauma victim who bleeds out his ears and nose on a regular basis. If he says "Council of Jehovah" there's probably going to be one. lol Sure, some people won't like it and will give up on AFC, but their children or grandchildren will eventually come around.

Dislike for the papacy isn't arbitrary, it's based out of specific structures. While I don't doubt that those features could appear over time, it just doesn't make sense for "anti-cardinals" to be set up right from the get-go. I think such a thing will need the maturation of RU racial theory, and the idea that some people are better then others, and even some Betters are better then other Betters. But for now, I just don't see it as likely.

 

[SuperZtar64]

North America, 1812

 

[SuperZtar64]

North America, 1826

Jesus, i need sleep...

 

[Napoleon53]

Those look pretty good, Super! One thing though: what is going on with Maine? EDIT: Ooh, and West Florida.

 

[SuperZtar64]

Those look pretty good, Super! One thing though: what is going on with Maine?

You mentioned earlier that you were having France give the RU the disputed parts of Maine as a sop for its hardship in the War of 1812. If you want it edited, I can do it, just specify.

 

[Flashman]

One interesting thought is that ITTL, Maine will likely remain a part of Massachusetts. So maybe it can take on the same role that the Ohio Country did in the original.