What if the US space program was mostly based on Ascension Island instead of Cape Canaveral?

marathag

Banned
... that's massively different from the huge number of skilled civilian personnel you need located nearby long-term. And their supporting communities.
It's said that NASA had over 400,000 workers involved with Apollo, all-over the country in the 1960s.
Now how many absolutely needed to be at the Kennedy Space Center with the VAB and LC pad, to get an Apollo Stack launched towards to Moon?
That's the number that needs to be relocated for a Sat V launch.
 
I'm still at a loss as to what you people think the benefit of launching from Ascension is and what value that would have that could possibly have that would be worth the trouble of locating all of the infrastructure currently at KSC to an island in the middle of the ocean.
It's said that NASA had over 400,000 workers involved with Apollo, all-over the country in the 1960s.
Now how many absolutely needed to be at the Kennedy Space Center with the VAB and LC pad, to get an Apollo Stack launched towards to Moon?
That's the number that needs to be relocated for a Sat V launch.
Ten to twenty thousand would be a pretty conservative estimate. Remember that the island is only eight miles across and you need half of that as your exclusion zone in case the rocket explodes. You would probably need more people on the island than at KSC because all of the NASA and contractor employees have to live there during the launch campaign, so you need to add the population of a small city to the amount of staff you need to integrate and launch the rocket plus all the people who are needed just to operate and maintain the infrastructure.
 
Setting up electricity,water,fuel,housing.... if you're going to do off the mainland USA then might as well look at Hawaii,Panama,Puerto Rico so at least the enormous expenditures have some political benefit. Remember Kendall Square in Cambridge Ma. was razed to house what went to Houston, because JFK was Prez, when LBJ took over he wasn't stupid, talk about bringing home the bacon. Ascension would have needed dilithium crystals or helium 3 to garner any interest.
 
I'm still at a loss as to what you people think the benefit of launching from Ascension is and what value that would have that could possibly have that would be worth the trouble of locating all of the infrastructure currently at KSC to an island in the middle of the ocean.
Ascension Island would offer two possible benefits for launching from. First, as it is at a significantly lower latitude than Cape Canaveral, it would offer larger payloads into equatorial orbits, just as Kourou does relative to the Cape. Second, as is completely surrounded by ocean it would offer clear ranges in all directions, enabling one launch facility to handle all types of payloads. Due to the Caribbean islands on the one hand and the East Coast on the other, Cape Canaveral is functionally unable to handle payloads that need to be put into polar orbits, which has led to the United States also operating Vandenberg on the West Coast (whose range limitations make it impossible to handle payloads that don't need to be put into polar orbits). So there are legitimate reasons for building a launch base on Ascension as opposed to the U.S. mainland.

The problem, however, is two-fold. First, the logistical cost of locating the launch center there as opposed to the mainland is almost certainly larger than the benefits. For France it's worthwhile to put their main launcher center overseas because there aren't any suitable locations in France anyway, but there are plenty of locations in the United States that are good enough that it's just not worthwhile to go to the trouble of needing ocean-going ships and aircraft to carry everything for a bit of a payload boost.

Second, this misses the point of Cape Canaveral in the first place, which was as a test range for missiles. These could be fired to the south-east such that they would have a minimal chance of impacting anyone even if they malfunctioned or went off-course, while still passing by a series of stations for tracking and studying the missiles in flight--including, as it happened, Ascension Island. Theoretically you could put the launch site on Ascension and fire north-westwards instead, but then an overshoot leads to the rocket landing on the U.S. mainland and possibly harming people or causing damage, as had been demonstrated in the earlier New Mexican V-2 tests. By contrast, firing from Cape Canaveral means that an overshoot lands in the ocean, no harm done. Thus, it makes more sense to build up the Cape as a missile test center.

But, of course, once you have all of the infrastructure needed to fire missiles from the Cape, you also have all the infrastructure needed to fire orbital rockets as well. Thus, it's much easier to simply turn the Cape into a space launch center than to build a new one. The same was basically true of the Russian and Chinese launch complexes as well, although in the former case there were some issues with their early Kapustin Yar site vis-a-vis ICBM testing that led them to build a new site for the latter, which became Baikonur.

Setting up electricity,water,fuel,housing.... if you're going to do off the mainland USA then might as well look at Hawaii,Panama,Puerto Rico so at least the enormous expenditures have some political benefit. Remember Kendall Square in Cambridge Ma. was razed to house what went to Houston, because JFK was Prez, when LBJ took over he wasn't stupid, talk about bringing home the bacon. Ascension would have needed dilithium crystals or helium 3 to garner any interest.
This is incorrect. "What went to Houston" was the Space Task Group at Langley--in Virginia. Langely was adequate to house the Mercury program, but it was obviously not sufficient for the Gemini and Apollo programs, so work on locating a replacement began rather early. While there was definite lobbying to place the Manned Spaceflight Center in Massachusetts, that state never had a serious chance; the leading candidate was actually MacDill Air Force base in Florida, close to Tampa, but that was predicated on the Air Force closing down that base, which it chose not to. The choice then fell to the second candidate, which was Houston (the third candidate was San Francisco, which would have been interesting later on). Of course politics was definitely a factor in how high Houston ranked, but this had little to do with Johnson (who was only Vice President and not particularly popular within the administration); instead, the fact that key members of multiple House committees were part of the Texas delegation was probably the controlling political factor. The Speaker of the House of Representatives, the Chair of the House Budgetary Committee, and several members of the House Committee on Science and Astronautics were all Texans.

In any case, this decision was made in 1961, so that construction began in 1962 and was completed in September 1963, two months before Kennedy was shot. By the time Johnson took office, the location of the Manned Spaceflight Center (aka Johnson) had been firmly set. Of course Johnson didn't mind it being located in Texas once he became President, but he was hardly "taking home the bacon" at that point.
 
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marathag

Banned
Ten to twenty thousand would be a pretty conservative estimate. Remember that the island is only eight miles across and you need half of that as your exclusion zone in case the rocket explodes.
Tinian island had over 40,000 men, for a 40 square mile island in 1945, Ascension Island is just a bit smaller.
My main problem is that island isn't flat like Tinian. Would be very busy construction corps making things flat enough for the crawler transporter going from the VAB to the Pad on the other side of Green Mountain, near where the OTL Tracking base was
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That peak would shield the rest of the island from any Rapid Unplanned Disassembly events
 
What inspired you to choose this particular island? Were there talks of doing a lot of space launches from Ascension Island? What are the advantages of this place compared to Florida? I've never heard of the place until I saw the thread just now.
I vaguely remember reading studies that proposed launching from Christmas Island, but never anything about Ascension; and ideas of launching from islands seem to have been discarded past the late 50s.
Most of that seems to be because of logistical considerations; there are zero advantages to launching from remote islands compared to Florida, aside from ballistic missile interception tests (as with Kwajalein)
 
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