TL-191 Map Thread

I re-uploaded the Draka and "Planet-Battle" (changed that name to) maps on this post with slightly different maps with minor some slight errors corrected. I'm a bit of a perfectionist. :eek::rolleyes::p

Also, maps based on Fatherland, After the End, and much more are forthcoming. :D

On that whole British Columbia thing, I'd imagine that they would change the name just to Columbia when it is admitted as a state. Even thought America kept the names of places it annexed IOTL, circumstances are different here, as America deafetted Britain in two world wars. Not only that, but countries renaming cities, foods, items etc. during the world wars are far from uncommon OTL. I image many of these happened IITL as well, albiet some would obviously be different. Could you imagine that whole Freedom Fries thing ninety years early? :p

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_politically_motivated_renamings

Just my two cents.
 
Great maps, Zoidberg.

Due to butterflies, in China things are a little better than OTL, with the Warlords mostly under control, save for in East Turkestan. Japan is too preoccupied with her new colonial holdings purchased from Europe to worry about the Chinese, thought they have managed to occupy some coastal towns and regions back during the Warlord era. A Sino-German alliance is helping China to control her continually restive land, modernize her army, invest in her troubled economy, and fend of any potential Japanese threat.

Is this just conjecture? I had assumed China would still be Japan's bitch as in OTL. Can't remember if anything was mentioned in the books about it, though. Did Japan actually purchase anything from the French or British? I thought they just took it.
 
Great maps, Zoidberg.



Is this just conjecture? I had assumed China would still be Japan's bitch as in OTL. Can't remember if anything was mentioned in the books about it, though. Did Japan actually purchase anything from the French or British? I thought they just took it.




I believe it was said Japan bought French Indochina, not sure about Indonesia.
 
How the Hell did they do that!?

The Dutch East Indies was where Holland got most of it's GDP from (I think), why would they give it up?

Beats the fuck me.

My wild-ass guess is, they couldn't find a great power that would stick up for them.
 
Great maps, Zoidberg.



Is this just conjecture? I had assumed China would still be Japan's bitch as in OTL. Can't remember if anything was mentioned in the books about it, though. Did Japan actually purchase anything from the French or British? I thought they just took it.

Thanks. :D

I admit that China in TL-191 is a bit of a tricky one. :eek: Turtledove barely mentions it, so I assume it was OTL up until GWI. I thought that without the Soviet backed warlords China would unify slightly faster maybe, plus the Japanese have tons of recourse from newly purchased Indochina and Indonesia, so they have little reason to invade China. Not to mention they were dealing with the US in the early 30'. I can see the Germans helping out China to prevent a Japanese excursion onto their remaining Pacific colonies.

This actually is an interesting question. Without the Soviet backed warlords, what affect would this have on the Chinese Civil War. I imagine the Communist are much more marginalized, but would this make unification faster? My knowledge on the Warlord era of Chinese history is kinda limited, even if I do know allot about it already. I could re-upload the 1941 map with the OTL remaining cliques sans Japanese invasion. Sounds good? Any thoughts on China IITL?
 
I'll re post the 1941 map and fix some errors I've noticed after some recommendations about what to do with China. In the meantime I'll have a "Dixieland" map posted up shortly. I did like that guy on deviant-arts interpretation, but there are some things I would do differently. ;):cool:
 
I've re uploaded the TL-191 1941 map on this post. I fixed some minor errors and I made China more fractured and gave the Japanese a wee bit more power. So China is still quite subservient to Japan IITL, just not to the extent of OTL. Plus I edited the China part of the description accordingly. :cool:

Maps based on After the End will come next. :D I've actually been planning on writing a sort of uber-continuation of TL-191 combining After the End, content from the Photos thread and other TL-191 continuation ideas into one glorious epic. :D Some if that may rub of on my post-191 maps. I need David's permission first before I write it though.
 
The Planet-Battle series is a series of alternate history/sci fi novels written by Harry Turtledove about an invasion of earth by a reptillian alien empire known as "the Race" during the Second Great War. Turtledove is also known for his Timeline 191 series, where the Confederacy lost the Civil War, the USA remaining isolationist in European affairs, and a defeated Germany taking the place of the Freedomite Confederacy.

A Map of the World of Planet-Battle in 1944, after the singing of the Peace of Cairo which ended the Race invasion of Tosev 3.
I like this map, and I hope someone does a TL to go with it, but I have a few questions:
Why is New Zealand independent? Wouldn't the Race have annexed it?
Why are there "independent" states in SE Asia? Wouldn't either Japan or the Race have occupied them?
 
I like this map, and I hope someone does a TL to go with it, but I have a few questions:
Why is New Zealand independent? Wouldn't the Race have annexed it?
Why are there "independent" states in SE Asia? Wouldn't either Japan or the Race have occupied them?

Nerdlinger is actually working on a Worldwar-Timeline-191 crossover. It's on hiatus though however.

New Zealnd wasn't annexed in the original World war. I think that, according to the Turtleodve wiki, the Race jut didn't care about it.

Those are actually Japanese protectorates, not independant states.

Edit: ignore the sad face that's on the heading of the post. That's what happens when you type on an iPad mini. :p
 
Heres the Timeline 191 world in 1944, based on After the End. I will be faithful to After the End in these maps. I'll put my plans of an ubber continuation on hold since David wants to keep it a one man project, but I may very well contribute some stuff to his completed version. :D

So, heres 1944, the year the Second Great war ended. Everything seems to be correct, and I divided the British, French and Russian empires between winning powers (and some neutral ones) logically. Everything seem okay? I think its all correct.

1950 is next. :cool:

1696743707122.png
 
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Heres the Timeline 191 world in 1944, based on After the End. I will be faithful to After the End in these maps. I'll put my plans of an ubber continuation on hold since David wants to keep it a one man project, but I may very well contribute some stuff to his completed version. :D

So, heres 1944, the year the Second Great war ended. Everything seems to be correct, and I divided the British, French and Russian empires between winning powers (and some neutral ones) logically. Everything seem okay? I think its all correct.

1950 is next. :cool:
Are Iceland, Greenland, Denmark, and Norway all part of some "North Sea Commonwealth" or something? They all seem to be the same color.
EDIT: And New Zealand?
Also, IIRC, NZ and Australia were still British by 1944 (Wasn't the treaty of Aachen in 1945?).
 
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Nerdlinger is actually working on a Worldwar-Timeline-191 crossover. It's on hiatus though however.

New Zealnd wasn't annexed in the original World war. I think that, according to the Turtleodve wiki, the Race jut didn't care about it.

Those are actually Japanese protectorates, not independant states.

Edit: ignore the sad face that's on the heading of the post. That's what happens when you type on an iPad mini. :p
Okay, it just seems weird. IIRC, the only place not annexed by the Race or a not-empire (or a smaller republic, like Finland, etc.) was Antarctica.
Maybe you could make a map for this TL with marks where explosive-metal bombs were used.
 
Are Iceland, Greenland, Denmark, and Norway all part of some "North Sea Commonwealth" or something? They all seem to be the same color.
EDIT: And New Zealand?
Also, IIRC, NZ and Australia were still British by 1944 (Wasn't the treaty of Aachen in 1945?).

No, they're definitely different colors. Greenland is part of Denmark, as per OTL, so they're the same color.
 
Also, IIRC, NZ and Australia were still British by 1944 (Wasn't the treaty of Aachen in 1945?).

The Treaty of Aachen was on August 11, 1944 according to After the End, and Australia and New Zealand severed their diplomatic ties to Britain in the treaty, thus are Republics and not dominions.
 
I don't recall seeing Finland expanding to have the lands that comprise Greater Finland in the Treaty of Aachen - I'd always thought it just held the same territory that it had prior to the war rather than expand even further.
 
Here are final versions of my TL-191 Maps. :D I've fixed some minor errors and uploaded them unto my DA account, so here they are, with descriptions of course.

1914

timeline_191__1914_by_toonart789-d65ydof.png


A map of the Timeline-191 world in 1914, on the eve of the First Great War (1914-1917). Even with fifty-two years of the butterfly effect, the world looks much the same, map-wise at least, to our own, outside of North America and the Pacific at least.

Therefore, this map only needed a few changes to an OTL 1914 map. Some changes are pretty obvious, as for the more obscure ones, this will explain everything. OTL's Micronesia is divided between Japan and Germany. IOTL Spain sold their Pacific island possessions to Germany after they lost the Spanish American War. ITTL they are seized by the Japanese during the Hispano-Japanese War, and they border some colonies the German's already owned, both OTL and IITL.

Samoa is a German Colony. IOTL the USA and Germany feuded over the islands during the Samoan Crisis in 1887, and later divided them between each other. IITL there was an attempt in the late 1880s to claim some of the Samoan islands for the USA. However, apathy at home and the need for funds to support the American arms growth prevented the Samoan islands from becoming an American colony. Instead, the USA supports German claims to Samoa as a show of thanks for their support after the Second Mexican War.

The British are much more powerful in the Pacific IITL, with the USA unable to colonize more islands due to their loss of and subsequent weakening after the SMW. However, the US owns some islands such as Johnston Atoll, most of which were acquired pre-POD in the 1850s.

1925

timeline_191__1925_by_toonart789-d65ye47.png


Here's a map of the Timeline 191 world in 1925. While there are still similarities to the 1925 of our world, things have really begun to change map-wise. Once again, obscure and speculative elements of the map will be explained.

After the Great War, Germany is the victor in Europe and is the continent's dominant power. Turtledove only mentioned Poland and Ukraine as German puppets, but it is most likely that other nations such the Baltic states, Belarus, and Finland exist as well. Some of these Turtledove hinted at. In regards to Finland there was some conflicting info, but it most likely became independent after TTL's Russian Civil War. There is just no good reason as to why the Russians could still hold onto it. There was mention in one of the books of a provisional government in Finland during the Second Great War, and it could have been an emergency war-time government declared during a Russian invasion.

There were oblique references to other Eastern European countries, but I assumed that Romania, Greece and Albania were neutral during the Great War. There are enough butterflies to justify it, and it makes the CP winning even more plausible. There were internal conflicts in the first two countries over who to ally with, so maybe IITL they decided to remain neutral so as "not please any one side too much", for lack of a better term. Albania and Romania were hinted at being in AH's influence, but I assumed not directly and most likely through a German led "Zollverein Economic Union." Much would be the same for the Netherlands.

In so many TL-191 maps, the Ottomans are shown getting way to much out of the war. Turtledove mentioned they won little in both wars, and this is conveyed here. The Ottomans have managed to annex Georgia and to gain Azerbaijan as a puppet state during TTL's Russian Civil War. Meanwhile in Arabia, the land of OTL's Saudi Arabia was annexed by the Ottomans after the war. In northern Arabia, the Emirate of Jabal Shammar, under the House of Rashid, is an autonomous region of the Ottoman Empire. IITL the Arab Rebellion fails, Ibn Saud is killed and the rest of Saudis executed, so Arabia is never unified under the Saudis with the Ottoman's still around.

In South America, TTL's border dispute between Colombia and Venezuela is showed as the Colombians wanting land south of the Orinoco River. Maybe they discovered valuables there or something like that, who knows? Another border dispute that Turtledove mentioned was between Venezuela and Brazil, and the river this time is the Branco River.

In China, things are different with no Soviet backed warlords. Butterflies will also assure differences between the Chinese Civil Wars of TTL and OTL.

In the Pacific, I assumed that Germany gained French Wallis and Futuna after her victory in the Great War, due its proximity to German Samoa, plus the Germans may have been a tad more powerful in the Pacific IITL.

1941

timeline_191__1941_by_toonart789-d6676c9.png


A map of the world of Timeline-191 in 1941, on the eve of the Second Great War. There are quite a number of changes from the map of 1925. Again, the obvious ones will be skipped, and the obscure ones will be explained.

In Africa, France sold some of her more minor colonies to Italy in 1926. Italian Libya also gained some land from British Egypt and Sudan like IOTL.

In South America, a few aforementioned border disputes were resolved. The border dispute between Peru and Ecuador was resolved after a slightly alternate Ecuadorian–Peruvian War in 1940. The Chaco War also occurred largely as it did IOTL, with Paraguay as the victor.

Due to butterflies, in China things are slightly different from OTL. Part of this has to do with the fact that Japan is already preoccupied with her new colonial holdings purchased from European powers, so the invasion of China goes differently. Meanwhile, an unofficial Sino-German alliance is helping China to control her continually restive land, modernize her army, invest in her troubled economy, and eventually fend of the Japanese invasion.

France was awarded Clipperton Island like IOTL. This somewhat strains relations between France and the Empire of Mexico.

~~~~~

Next, will be maps for After the End. :D
 
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Great maps. Just curious, though -- you've got dark gray territorial borders around Utah and Canada when they're occupied US territory but regular light gray state borders around occupied Sequoyah. I'm not sure what the UCS rule is for priority of border color between adjacent US states and territories, but either way, you've got an inconsistency there.
 
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