The Death of Russia - TL

[AustrianFanboy]

Tne way I see it, the west got off quite lightly: no major cities hit, mostly the nukes destroyed a brunch of military bases and HQs: given the preemptive evacuation measures civilian casualties should be reduced, especially if it was not the actual cities that were hit, but nearly military facilities, and depending on the yield of the blasts.
Concerning military losses, I expect that with nuclear warfare looming on the horizon, most military hardware should have been manned and removed from fixed installations; EW should have allowed most planes to get in the air before the nuclear strikes hit their bases (which btw make for quite obvious targets) as well.
I expect most higher echelon commanders to have moved to mobile command posts as well (places like Mons and Naples make for EXTREMELY obvious targets, and it would be borderline idiotic to stick inside there)
Truth is that counter-force nuclear strikes only work if they enjoy the element of surprise.
Concerning civilian losses, I assume the worst should have happened in Dover and Calais

 

[Lalli]

Peter would have wept at a lot of russia's history OTL, countries been through a lot.

But yeah pretty much this is the end of russia as a unified country.

I guess that all tsars/Russian monarchs from Vladimir (or ITTL people might favor to use its Ukrainian version Volodymyr) the Great to Nicholas II and all post-tsarist Russian leaders from Kerensky to Gorbachev would are horrified. And Gorbachev was still alive in 1996. Him must now suffer from severe depression. Him probably has not even energy to appear on some pizza commerical (yes, he did that in OTL).

And if Hell is exist, hopefully that Petrograd Council ends to same cell with Hitler and Stalin.

 

[theflyingmongoose]

Yitgadal v'yitkadash sh'mei raba. B'alma di v'ra chirutei, v'yamlich malchutei, b'chayeichon uv'yomeichon uv'chayei d'chol beit Yisrael, baagala uviz'man kariv. Amen.

*Yitgadal v'yitkadash sh'mei raba. B'alma di v'ra chirutei, v'yamlich malchutei, b'chayeichon uv'yomeichon uv'chayei d'chol beit Yisrael, baagala uviz'man kariv, lema'et Barkashov

 

[Whiteshore]

And if Hell is exist, hopefully that Petrograd Council ends to same cell with Hitler and Stalin.

Along with Anpilov and the Al-Qaeda terrorists who started this whole mess by nuking Stalingrad.

 

[AustrianFanboy]

PS my two cents on future development:
-The Siberian governement East of the Urals will be recognized as the successor state of Russia.
-Russia west of the Urals will be declared a demilitarized zone under UN administration for as long as it takes to reestablish at least some semblance of a functioning civilization (decades)
-Osama Bin Laden will flee to Afghanistan; the Americans will find out and will politely ask the Talibans to hand him; at this point either they agree or the mountain ranges between Afghanistan and Pakistan are going to be landscaped into a radioactive plain

 

[Cascadiawank]

Concerning civilian losses, I assume the worst should have happened in Dover and Calais

Or in Gdańsk, which had a population of around 460,000 at that time, more than even Anchorage, AK (~300,000 inhabitants)

 

[Whiteshore]

I guess that all tsars/Russian monarchs from Vladimir (or ITTL people might favor to use its Ukrainian version Volodymyr) the Great to Nicholas II and all post-tsarist Russian leaders from Kerensky to Gorbachev would are horrified.

Heck, even Makashov, Konstantinov, Rutskoy, Zyuganov, Baburin, and Astafyev would be screaming in horror in the afterlife at witnessing 4/10 and its aftermath.

Or in Gdańsk, which had a population of around 460,000 at that time, more than even Anchorage, AK (~300,000 inhabitants)

Bordeaux and Izmir would be other major cities which contribute a lot to the death toll, especially as the latter had a population of about two million at this point.

 

[AustrianFanboy]

Or in Gdańsk, which had a population of around 460,000 at that time, more than even Anchorage, AK (~300,000 inhabitants)

Yep, forgot It, my mistake

 

[Lalli]

Question: What did happen to Timothy McVeigh? Previosly we heard him on early stage of this madness. Considering that there is his diary and writers of history books know his existence he probably survived from war and 10/4 or at least someone found his diary.

PS my two cents on future development:
-The Siberian governement East of the Urals will be recognized as the successor state of Russia.

I don't think that anyone has intrested about discuss what is actual successor state for Russia. The nation is found only from history books now. Anyone not bother to discuss what would that successor nation be. And since Russian core region is just irradiated chaos it is anyway really pointless. Probably no one even want to be successor for nation which killed itself with such way.

-Russia west of the Urals will be declared a demilitarized zone under UN administration for as long as it takes to reestablish at least some semblance of a functioning civilization (decades)

Probably there is going to be UN administration since there is not anyone higher-ranked politician than some local mayor left. And it is indeed going to last decades before there is formed new nations.

-Osama Bin Laden will flee to Afghanistan; the Americans will find out and will politely ask the Talibans to hand him; at this point either they agree or the mountain ranges between Afghanistan and Pakistan are going to be landscaped into a radioactive plain

OBL would be so hated man that probably even Taliban would be rational enough that it is better push that man under a bus. In other hand I don't see OBL having any way to flee anyway.

 

[Whiteshore]

@Sorairo, I think your figure for deaths outside of Russia is on the low end as Izmir at this point had two million residents and so I'd place the death toll in the 1-1.5 million range owing to Izmir being nuked, though that might just be me.

 

[AustrianFanboy]

There is something horribly astonishing about this TL: all of the perfidious characters portraited are real and enjoy Wide popularity in OTL Russia: Barkashov, for instance is considered a "well respected" politician in Russia, just ti name one.
Alksnis actually covers some prestigious institutional role; the same applies to Dugin, likely the most delirious of the fold.
The fact that in today's Russia openly racist, xenophobic, if not covertly genocidal rhetorics are widespread in mainstream media and enjoy wide support among ample strata of Russian society should have us all think, and posits a difficult dilemma.
Our own wide-mindedness forces us to distunguish between the authoritarian Russian regime, which we willfully disdain and the Russian population at large.
But when you find out they Putin and his cronies enjoy wide support from the population, should we not condemn the Russian people as a whole, just as we condemned the German people back in 1945 for having given the nazis their hearts and minds?
This is what recently has me wondering.
PS one bright side ti this TL is that it enticed me to investigate about people like Dugin and Barkashov which I previously knew very little about; this, in turn, allowed me to shut the fu**ing mouth of some pro-Putin it's-all-the-west-fault people I know

 

[Sorairo]

@Sorairo, I think your figure for deaths outside of Russia is on the low end as Izmir at this point had two million residents and so I'd place the death toll in the 1-1.5 million range owing to Izmir being nuked, though that might just be me.

I've debated with that and after some time I agree, I'll raise the initial death rate somewhat.

 

[mspence]

I don't know that America would have taken that many strikes except maybe for Alaska and Cheyenne Mountain. As has been previously mentioned, the old Soviet missiles and nukes were in deteriorating condition and after the initial launches against the West the US basically pounded what was left in Russia into oblivion.

 

[AustrianFanboy]

@Sorairo, I think your figure for deaths outside of Russia is on the low end as Izmir at this point had two million residents and so I'd place the death toll in the 1-1.5 million range owing to Izmir being nuked, though that might just be me.

You're totally right; I did not consider Turkey as part of the "west", but if you count it in, then maybe there is where the most civilian casualties outside Russia have happened

 

[AustrianFanboy]

Question: What did happen to Timothy McVeigh? Previosly we heard him on early stage of this madness. Considering that there is his diary and writers of history books know his existence he probably survived from war and 10/4 or at least someone found his diary.



I don't think that anyone has intrested about discuss what is actual successor state for Russia. The nation is found only from history books now. Anyone not bother to discuss what would that successor nation be. And since Russian core region is just irradiated chaos it is anyway really pointless. Probably no one even want to be successor for nation which killed itself with such way.



Probably there is going to be UN administration since there is not anyone higher-ranked politician than some local mayor left. And it is indeed going to last decades before there is formed new nations.



OBL would be so hated man that probably even Taliban would be rational enough that it is better push that man under a bus. In other hand I don't see OBL having any way to flee anyway.

I agree with most of your points: OTOH I still believe there "must" be a successor state to Russia, of only for it to inherit Russian state treaties

 

[Whiteshore]

There is something horribly astonishing about this TL: all of the perfidious characters portraited are real and enjoy Wide popularity in OTL Russia: Barkashov, for instance is considered a "well respected" politician in Russia, just ti name one.
Alksnis actually covers some prestigious institutional role; the same applies to Dugin, likely the most delirious of the fold.

And, on that note, it also illustrates how there are quite a few people within the Russian elite whose disagreement with Putin is that he's too moderate for their tastes.

 

[AustrianFanboy]

And, on that note, it also illustrates how there are quite a few people within the Russian elite whose disagreement with Putin is that he's too moderate for their tastes.

I agree with your statement: the real problem in Russia right now Is that Putin Is the moderate One.
Also, once Russia Will have "Lost" their war in Ukraine, which, IMHO is just a question of time, I expect Putin to be replaced by a rabidly ultranationalist out of the fold.
Since the end of the fold war there is one HUGE stab-in-the-back myth in Russia: same rhetorics: "Russia Is the most super-duper country in the world but It was betrayed by the judeo-western-masonic rabble Who bought our politicians".
This myth was deflated in Germany by the fact that they were reduced in rubble, which allowed them to entertain the thought that, no, they don't have the longest c**k around.

 

[Sorairo]

As even I'm quite astonished at the number of replies I've gotten and am getting mildly overwhelmed (though I'm grateful), I'll sign out until the next chapter, which I can hopefully upload on or before Christmas. After that there will be one more chapter with the story concluding in detail at the year 2000 with explanations of 2020's geopolitical scene.

 

[Keb]

I agree with most of your points: OTOH I still believe there "must" be a successor state to Russia, of only for it to inherit Russian state treaties

Not necessarily. It can be determined that the Russian Federation ceased to exist with a series of successors emerging.

That was the IOTL conclusion of the international community to the collapse of Yugoslavia. While one of the successors was named Yugolsavia (eventually becoming Serbia and Montenegro), it was generally and legally considered to be a new nation and merely a successor to the rights and duties of old Yugoslavia (alongside every other newly formed nation).

 

[Whiteshore]

Not necessarily. It can be determined that the Russian Federation ceased to exist with a series of successors emerging.

That was the IOTL conclusion of the international community to the collapse of Yugoslavia. While one of the successors was named Yugolsavia (eventually becoming Serbia and Montenegro), it was generally and legally considered to be a new nation and merely a successor to the rights and duties of old Yugoslavia (alongside every other newly formed nation).

Even if Pushkingrad and/or Novosibirsk would protest such a conclusion