Wow, so many replies to respond to! Thanks all for the interest; I’m really you’re enjoying this. It’s great to be making progress on it again, and your comments and questions really spur me on to produce more. I’ll try and take each theme that’s come up separately, rather than reply to individual comments.
To be fair to Henrietta Maria, her move made a bit more sense in a situation where it was her husband on the throne, rather than her son (which is why she made the attempt IOTL too); it’d still alienate everyone, but at least there’s not the same risk that Lorraine will overshadow the legitimate King quite so badly. Well-intentioned but misguided adventures was very much her style, though.
As for Scotland, it’s not necessarily the case that Strachan’s ‘New Model Army’ is wholly in accord with the Remonstrant leadership under siege in Edinburgh. Indeed, in some ways Strachan and his troops are as much of a threat to the Covenant as the Protesters are; neither have much love for the gentry, and both feel that a complete failure of leadership by Scotland’s ruling classes have brought the country to the state that it’s in (they have a point, to be fair).
The Resolutioneers are down but not out too; and now that the King has rejected them, there’s not actually really that much to divide them from the Remonstrants, beyond the mutual blame game. On the other hand, the King’s rejection also makes the faction politically irrelevant, beyond the fact that they have a small army, so it’s swings and roundabouts.
From Lambert’s perspective, at some point he’ll will have to stop making diplomatic decisions on the fly and start referring things back to London. His main priority at this point though is to avoid further fighting, replenish his force, and, if he can’t turn Scotland into an ally, at least render the Scots harmless while the Commonwealth’s eyes turn westwards to Ireland.
Ireland will obviously feature a lot more in a future post, but it’s in an interesting situation. A huge amount will depend on whether the Duke of Lorraine and King James can come to any sort of accommodation; this is entirely possible, although Cardinal Rinnucini will be frantically trying to sabotage any such rapprochement. Either way, there’s probably going to be a civil war in the Confederacy; if the King and Duke can align, then things may look a bit like OTL with the Ulster O’Neills having a brief civil war against the Royalists; if they can’t come to an agreement then things may be even more confusing with a proper-full scale civil war between the King’s party on the one hand and the Clerical one on the other. If the Irish are lucky, they can get all this sorted out by the time the Commonwealth gets its act together to intervene.
The Irish (and Royalists) have the advantage that Ormonde is still in control of Dublin ITTL, so Parliament doesn’t have a foothold in Ireland in the same way. At this point, the only place in Ireland that remains loyal to London is Londonderry. However, it’s not like the arrival of the Duke of Lorraine won’t piss off the various English, nominally-Royalist troops in Ireland too; IOTL garrisons like Cork changed sides between King and Parliament several times as the war ebbed and flowed, generally going with whoever looked like they’d be able to provide the most help. If the choice is between raising a cross of St Edward or the Spanish Royal Standard, many “Royalists” in Ireland would prefer the latter.
Needless to say, we’ll see a lot more of this subject in future posts; while there is an English proposal of Union with Holland, it’s not a done deal. Lilburne’s dreams of spreading his revolution are not really the primary motivation for the English proposal, although they certainly contribute; it’s worth remembering that Anglo-Dutch Union was very much a ‘thing’ in England during the period, and IOTL the incredulous Dutch reaction to Cromwell’s proposal of Union was one of the things leading to the first Anglo Dutch war.
During that conflict, Adriaan Pauw likened England to a mountain of iron, and the Netherlands to a mountain of gold; ITTL the States General realise that they can use the gold to hire themselves some of the iron, while the Council of State is desperate for cash. Sending a fleet to break the Orangist blockade of Holland is good for the City of London, which at this point was doing massive trade with Amsterdam; and if the Dutch can be convinced to help fund an invasion of Ireland, so much the better!
It’s not giving much away to say that any English intervention in France isn’t likely to accomplish much beyond pissing everyone off.
I need to catch up with what’s happening in France, but suffice it to say that at this point Lilburne isn’t thinking about invasion, although other activities are certainly on the cards. With one exception, radical republicans were non-existent in France during the period, not that the English necessarily realise this; they certainly didn’t IOTL, when they commissioned Milton to translate all sorts of republican texts in French, printed and distributed them at great expense, only for appalled Frenchmen to burn them in horror at their contents.
I’ve moved various things around; next Chapter will be a repost of the Ireland one, then we’ll move on to new events. I wouldn’t pay too much attention to the Chapter headings; I make changes to my master document as I go and sometimes I feel certain chapters work better in slightly different orders.
The segment on Naples, for example, is actually still several months ahead of the main Timeline- Rainsborough arrives in Italy in August 1648, while the narrative is still in April and May. We haven’t even seen why he gets despatched to the Mediterranean yet, so as a chapter it’ll naturally come a fair bit later on in the final version of the TL.
Glad people enjoyed this part; in terms of the historicity of it, it’s a mix of genuine fact and conjecture, and none of the conjecture is too implausible. All the stuff about John Dee and the occult significance of 007 is entirely true; presumably Ian Fleming was aware of this, although 007 was apparently also a reference to the Zimmerman telegram, which was filed as document 0075. The intersection of clandestine intelligence and esoteric silliness is also entirely historical. The “intelligencers” of the 17th century were generally academics and natural scientists, and during the 1640s science and the occult generally went hand in hand. IOTL the English state relied heavily on these academic networks; Elizabeth I had Walsingham, John Dee and their respective correspondents, James I had Francis Bacon, and the Commonwealth had Samuel Hartlib and the “Invisible College”, which, post-Restoration, was formalised into the Royal Society. The Hartlib Circle and the Invisible College are particularly relevant here; we’ll see more of them later, but it’s rather likely that the German we saw with the big needle is Samuel Hartlib, who you might recall already popped up ITTL popularising the cultivation of the potato to feed the masses of London.
I’m not aware of anyone using the word ‘Kuklos’ to refer to the Hartlib Circle or Invisible College IOTL, but both were private groupings, and we only have three contemporary references to the latter anyhow. I wouldn’t be surprised if the term had been used by somebody at the time though; Kuklos means ‘circle’ in Greek, and also has occult connotations, the Kuklos Anankes being the ‘Circle of Neccesity’ in early modern Mysticism. Francis Bacon did exactly the same thing in the 1620s but using a different reference; he coined the name “House of Saloman” for his projected secret society of academics, philosophers and spies. There’s nothing to say that Kuklos is a formal term; the hard-faced man certainly seems a little embarrassed by the whole thing, and it’s fair to say that M is more of a poetic, mystic sort than he is. So yeah, the use of the word “Kuklos” isn’t a Flashman reference as such, although I understand how you’re getting there, and by coincidence (or is it?) a similar secret grouping crops up briefly in FaBR.
Finally the tattooing. While there’s no evidence that secret societies were going around tattooing people during OTL’s 17th century, the idea that such things were unknown in Europe until “Tatous” were brought back by 18th century explorers returning from Polynesia is not an accurate one. Tattooing never quite died out in Europe IOTL, and generally was done for religious reasons; medieval pilgrims often got tattoos to commemorate their journey, and they could often be used as purity marks; M makes reference to Jeanne des Anges, who IOTL after her ‘possession’ made a profitable career of wandering around the place showing off her tattoos.
Hopefully this shows that my meanderings are more historical than you might think!
As you mention, as of October 1647 Prince Henry is in Paris with Henrietta Maria, although this may change thanks to the political instability in the city; thanks to his mum’s influence he’s way too high church for the Commonwealth’s liking, and is regarded at this point pretty much as ‘just another Stuart’, rather than the potential solution he was IOTL. It’s entirely possible that he’ll get ensnared in the Fronde ITTL, especially given his mother’s good relationship with Mazarin and the Queen.
Ha! Lorraine would have landed in a Scotland entirely depopulated by apoplexy.
This is a good question, and one that I’m purposely avoiding for the time being; not because of any massive spoiler, simply because I’m having enough trouble keeping the TL focused as it is without the scope expanding still further. There will be some stuff related to this, particularly in the Baltic, towards the end of the TL; but it’s not going to be something I’ll go into too much detail. Things are long enough as they are!
Sidney fought with distinction at Bourne, before his injuries there forced him off the front line. He entered parliament much as IOTL and was one of the most vocal opponents of Hampden and the Engagement with the King; he briefly fled to Amsterdam in the days before the 2nd Civil War, but returned to London a few months later. He did a lot of the groundwork for the declaration of the Commonwealth, and is currently a member of the Council of State, where he’s in the uneasy centre between the Agitator and City factions.
To be fair to Henrietta Maria, her move made a bit more sense in a situation where it was her husband on the throne, rather than her son (which is why she made the attempt IOTL too); it’d still alienate everyone, but at least there’s not the same risk that Lorraine will overshadow the legitimate King quite so badly. Well-intentioned but misguided adventures was very much her style, though.
As for Scotland, it’s not necessarily the case that Strachan’s ‘New Model Army’ is wholly in accord with the Remonstrant leadership under siege in Edinburgh. Indeed, in some ways Strachan and his troops are as much of a threat to the Covenant as the Protesters are; neither have much love for the gentry, and both feel that a complete failure of leadership by Scotland’s ruling classes have brought the country to the state that it’s in (they have a point, to be fair).
The Resolutioneers are down but not out too; and now that the King has rejected them, there’s not actually really that much to divide them from the Remonstrants, beyond the mutual blame game. On the other hand, the King’s rejection also makes the faction politically irrelevant, beyond the fact that they have a small army, so it’s swings and roundabouts.
From Lambert’s perspective, at some point he’ll will have to stop making diplomatic decisions on the fly and start referring things back to London. His main priority at this point though is to avoid further fighting, replenish his force, and, if he can’t turn Scotland into an ally, at least render the Scots harmless while the Commonwealth’s eyes turn westwards to Ireland.
Ireland will obviously feature a lot more in a future post, but it’s in an interesting situation. A huge amount will depend on whether the Duke of Lorraine and King James can come to any sort of accommodation; this is entirely possible, although Cardinal Rinnucini will be frantically trying to sabotage any such rapprochement. Either way, there’s probably going to be a civil war in the Confederacy; if the King and Duke can align, then things may look a bit like OTL with the Ulster O’Neills having a brief civil war against the Royalists; if they can’t come to an agreement then things may be even more confusing with a proper-full scale civil war between the King’s party on the one hand and the Clerical one on the other. If the Irish are lucky, they can get all this sorted out by the time the Commonwealth gets its act together to intervene.
The Irish (and Royalists) have the advantage that Ormonde is still in control of Dublin ITTL, so Parliament doesn’t have a foothold in Ireland in the same way. At this point, the only place in Ireland that remains loyal to London is Londonderry. However, it’s not like the arrival of the Duke of Lorraine won’t piss off the various English, nominally-Royalist troops in Ireland too; IOTL garrisons like Cork changed sides between King and Parliament several times as the war ebbed and flowed, generally going with whoever looked like they’d be able to provide the most help. If the choice is between raising a cross of St Edward or the Spanish Royal Standard, many “Royalists” in Ireland would prefer the latter.
Needless to say, we’ll see a lot more of this subject in future posts; while there is an English proposal of Union with Holland, it’s not a done deal. Lilburne’s dreams of spreading his revolution are not really the primary motivation for the English proposal, although they certainly contribute; it’s worth remembering that Anglo-Dutch Union was very much a ‘thing’ in England during the period, and IOTL the incredulous Dutch reaction to Cromwell’s proposal of Union was one of the things leading to the first Anglo Dutch war.
During that conflict, Adriaan Pauw likened England to a mountain of iron, and the Netherlands to a mountain of gold; ITTL the States General realise that they can use the gold to hire themselves some of the iron, while the Council of State is desperate for cash. Sending a fleet to break the Orangist blockade of Holland is good for the City of London, which at this point was doing massive trade with Amsterdam; and if the Dutch can be convinced to help fund an invasion of Ireland, so much the better!
It’s not giving much away to say that any English intervention in France isn’t likely to accomplish much beyond pissing everyone off.
I need to catch up with what’s happening in France, but suffice it to say that at this point Lilburne isn’t thinking about invasion, although other activities are certainly on the cards. With one exception, radical republicans were non-existent in France during the period, not that the English necessarily realise this; they certainly didn’t IOTL, when they commissioned Milton to translate all sorts of republican texts in French, printed and distributed them at great expense, only for appalled Frenchmen to burn them in horror at their contents.
I’ve moved various things around; next Chapter will be a repost of the Ireland one, then we’ll move on to new events. I wouldn’t pay too much attention to the Chapter headings; I make changes to my master document as I go and sometimes I feel certain chapters work better in slightly different orders.
The segment on Naples, for example, is actually still several months ahead of the main Timeline- Rainsborough arrives in Italy in August 1648, while the narrative is still in April and May. We haven’t even seen why he gets despatched to the Mediterranean yet, so as a chapter it’ll naturally come a fair bit later on in the final version of the TL.
Glad people enjoyed this part; in terms of the historicity of it, it’s a mix of genuine fact and conjecture, and none of the conjecture is too implausible. All the stuff about John Dee and the occult significance of 007 is entirely true; presumably Ian Fleming was aware of this, although 007 was apparently also a reference to the Zimmerman telegram, which was filed as document 0075. The intersection of clandestine intelligence and esoteric silliness is also entirely historical. The “intelligencers” of the 17th century were generally academics and natural scientists, and during the 1640s science and the occult generally went hand in hand. IOTL the English state relied heavily on these academic networks; Elizabeth I had Walsingham, John Dee and their respective correspondents, James I had Francis Bacon, and the Commonwealth had Samuel Hartlib and the “Invisible College”, which, post-Restoration, was formalised into the Royal Society. The Hartlib Circle and the Invisible College are particularly relevant here; we’ll see more of them later, but it’s rather likely that the German we saw with the big needle is Samuel Hartlib, who you might recall already popped up ITTL popularising the cultivation of the potato to feed the masses of London.
I’m not aware of anyone using the word ‘Kuklos’ to refer to the Hartlib Circle or Invisible College IOTL, but both were private groupings, and we only have three contemporary references to the latter anyhow. I wouldn’t be surprised if the term had been used by somebody at the time though; Kuklos means ‘circle’ in Greek, and also has occult connotations, the Kuklos Anankes being the ‘Circle of Neccesity’ in early modern Mysticism. Francis Bacon did exactly the same thing in the 1620s but using a different reference; he coined the name “House of Saloman” for his projected secret society of academics, philosophers and spies. There’s nothing to say that Kuklos is a formal term; the hard-faced man certainly seems a little embarrassed by the whole thing, and it’s fair to say that M is more of a poetic, mystic sort than he is. So yeah, the use of the word “Kuklos” isn’t a Flashman reference as such, although I understand how you’re getting there, and by coincidence (or is it?) a similar secret grouping crops up briefly in FaBR.
Finally the tattooing. While there’s no evidence that secret societies were going around tattooing people during OTL’s 17th century, the idea that such things were unknown in Europe until “Tatous” were brought back by 18th century explorers returning from Polynesia is not an accurate one. Tattooing never quite died out in Europe IOTL, and generally was done for religious reasons; medieval pilgrims often got tattoos to commemorate their journey, and they could often be used as purity marks; M makes reference to Jeanne des Anges, who IOTL after her ‘possession’ made a profitable career of wandering around the place showing off her tattoos.
Hopefully this shows that my meanderings are more historical than you might think!
As you mention, as of October 1647 Prince Henry is in Paris with Henrietta Maria, although this may change thanks to the political instability in the city; thanks to his mum’s influence he’s way too high church for the Commonwealth’s liking, and is regarded at this point pretty much as ‘just another Stuart’, rather than the potential solution he was IOTL. It’s entirely possible that he’ll get ensnared in the Fronde ITTL, especially given his mother’s good relationship with Mazarin and the Queen.
Ha! Lorraine would have landed in a Scotland entirely depopulated by apoplexy.
This is a good question, and one that I’m purposely avoiding for the time being; not because of any massive spoiler, simply because I’m having enough trouble keeping the TL focused as it is without the scope expanding still further. There will be some stuff related to this, particularly in the Baltic, towards the end of the TL; but it’s not going to be something I’ll go into too much detail. Things are long enough as they are!
Sidney fought with distinction at Bourne, before his injuries there forced him off the front line. He entered parliament much as IOTL and was one of the most vocal opponents of Hampden and the Engagement with the King; he briefly fled to Amsterdam in the days before the 2nd Civil War, but returned to London a few months later. He did a lot of the groundwork for the declaration of the Commonwealth, and is currently a member of the Council of State, where he’s in the uneasy centre between the Agitator and City factions.
