What if the Surcouf wasn't sunk in February, 1942? Prior to the outbreak of the Second world war, it was the worlds biggest submarine. It was pretty unique due to the fact that it was not only armed with torpedoes but also had two 203mm cannons forward of its conning tower and an aircraft housed in a watertight pressure-resistant hanger behind the conning tower. The surcouf was designed to be a kind of commerce raider and could also in theory take on enemy cruisers. Going with the idea that it survives, where would the allies use such a vessel? Perhaps in the med to hunt Italian merchant vessels? Would it have been a successful in such a role? Opinions?
Surcouf survives...
- Thread starter dmz23
- Start date
It wasn't that unique, only unique in the same sense as the USS Constitution or the HMS Victory; It was an obsolete hold-over that was the only one left. The British had experimented with "Submarine Monitors" in the First World War and as far as I can tell, found them to leak profusely and have little real use for such large guns. Against unarmoured and unarmed targets, a basic Deck Gun was sufficient, and against targets that required such large guns, the Submarine would be incredibly vulnerable (since it's basically a pressurised tin can with no armour to speak of, at least compared to a surface ship with comparable weapons).
Unless I am mixing up Submarines, I believe most of the British Submarine Monitors sunk rather unceremoniously, due to the aforementioned leakage. A bit of a fiasco by all respects.
Had Surcouf survived the war, it would have ended up scrapped. End of.
Unless I am mixing up Submarines, I believe most of the British Submarine Monitors sunk rather unceremoniously, due to the aforementioned leakage. A bit of a fiasco by all respects.
Had Surcouf survived the war, it would have ended up scrapped. End of.
Fearless Leader
Donor
The main problem with the Surcouf IIRC was her mechanical unreliability. She barely made it out of France IIRC due to problems with her engines.
Assuming that the Allies somehow managed to deal with these problems, the Surcouf would probably be used in the Pacific. When she was sunk in Feb 1942 she was en route to the Panama Canal to take up station in and around Australia IIRC. Now assuming that the Surcouf makes it without incident to the South Pacific, I could see her giving the Japanese quite a nasty surprise or two.
Perhaps she interferes with the Japanese invasion of Tulagi and the Larger Coral Sea Battle? Properly captained, the Surcouf could throw a serious wrench in Japanese plans for the Solomons.
Of course there is the issue of supply, without access to French torpedoes and shells, the sub's usefulness might be limited. (French Torpedoes were about 27mm larger than the standard allied 21 inches). Perhaps a conversion could be undertaken?
However, even with an excellent performance she won't influence overall doctrine all that much. If she survives (that's a big if, a big submarine is easy to sink) she will be the exception to the rule and at best will live out the rest of her days as a museum piece.
Assuming that the Allies somehow managed to deal with these problems, the Surcouf would probably be used in the Pacific. When she was sunk in Feb 1942 she was en route to the Panama Canal to take up station in and around Australia IIRC. Now assuming that the Surcouf makes it without incident to the South Pacific, I could see her giving the Japanese quite a nasty surprise or two.
Perhaps she interferes with the Japanese invasion of Tulagi and the Larger Coral Sea Battle? Properly captained, the Surcouf could throw a serious wrench in Japanese plans for the Solomons.
Of course there is the issue of supply, without access to French torpedoes and shells, the sub's usefulness might be limited. (French Torpedoes were about 27mm larger than the standard allied 21 inches). Perhaps a conversion could be undertaken?
However, even with an excellent performance she won't influence overall doctrine all that much. If she survives (that's a big if, a big submarine is easy to sink) she will be the exception to the rule and at best will live out the rest of her days as a museum piece.
David S Poepoe
Banned
At her launch she was the world's largest submarine, but by WWII she is eclipsed by the larger Japanese carrier-submarines. Undoubtedly, with such large boats the narrow seas of the Mediterranean are not good. The Surcouf needs to be either in the Atlantic or the Pacific.
Douglas Reeman wrote a smashing good naval fiction book titled Surface With Daring, which has a Sucouf like French submarine seized by the British in the Far East and they attack Japanese forces. Terrific cover art of the 8in guns blazing away.
Douglas Reeman wrote a smashing good naval fiction book titled Surface With Daring, which has a Sucouf like French submarine seized by the British in the Far East and they attack Japanese forces. Terrific cover art of the 8in guns blazing away.
The origins of the Surcouf were mainly that of a submarine raider, when France was in a strong alliance with the UK, nullifying the purpose of this submarine, as it was left with no real targets anymore (British merchant shipping). Possibly her role of a merchant raider against Japanese shipping in WW2 was thought about, but as a singel unit, with no backup, she made little sense. By the way, where were the bases in SE Asia, where she could be handled and supplied, sicne the boat was unique in having a main armament of non standard proportions. (French 55 cm and 40 cm torpedoes as well as French 8 inch and 37mm guns, which had no supporting bases in SE Asia, after the start of Japanese aggression.
Sercouf
Read in another timeline where Sercouf worked with Argonaut and Nautilus/Narwhal in supporting USMC Raiders at Makin. why would this sub not be dedicated to Special Forces/Raids as well as supporting guerrilla operations
it's big and can be modified to take US/UK armament and do some damage support to Resistance efforts in SW Pac. could be fun to play with the concept
gangster
Read in another timeline where Sercouf worked with Argonaut and Nautilus/Narwhal in supporting USMC Raiders at Makin. why would this sub not be dedicated to Special Forces/Raids as well as supporting guerrilla operations
it's big and can be modified to take US/UK armament and do some damage support to Resistance efforts in SW Pac. could be fun to play with the concept
gangster
