Shtetl House on the Prairie

[DanMcCollum]

@DanMcCollum

As usual, pointing me toward similar patterns in adjacent US states has been immensely helpful.

I do what I do . You'd be shocked how often being an Upper Midwestern historian has been useful for people on this board

These are all good thoughts. You may want to take a look at this memoir for some inspiration. We read it for one of my classes at NDSU for rural history and I think it's right up your alley.

Rachel Calof's Story: Jewish Homesteader on the Northern Plains | Jewish Women's Archive

jwa.org

The Jewish Western Museum website also has a lot of info about Jewish settlements on the High Plains, it looks like.

Now, I do think that a wealthier and more populous Jewish community on the Canadian Prairie would lead to heavier settlement in the Dakotas and not less. As you've stated, the major Metropolis for the region was Chicago and later the Twin Cities. Deapitw the national boundary, the High Plains really are a region into themselves and the Canadian side influences the American and vicevera. As one example, Canada's NHS actually got started by Nonpartisan League members from ND and MN who moved into the region.

So my best guess is that, much like the German-Russians, you'd see spillover from Canada establishing colonies in the Dakotas as well. You'd likely see larger Jewish communities eventually migrating to Winnipeg, Grand Forks, and Fargo and for the economic prosperity of those to reinforce the rural settlements as well.

 

[durante]

I do what I do . You'd be shocked how often being an Upper Midwestern historian has been useful for people on this board

These are all good thoughts. You may want to take a look at this memoir for some inspiration. We read it for one of my classes at NDSU for rural history and I think it's right up your alley.

Rachel Calof's Story: Jewish Homesteader on the Northern Plains | Jewish Women's Archive

jwa.org

The Jewish Western Museum website also has a lot of info about Jewish settlements on the High Plains, it looks like.

Now, I do think that a wealthier and more populous Jewish community on the Canadian Prairie would lead to heavier settlement in the Dakotas and not less. As you've stated, the major Metropolis for the region was Chicago and later the Twin Cities. Deapitw the national boundary, the High Plains really are a region into themselves and the Canadian side influences the American and vicevera. As one example, Canada's NHS actually got started by Nonpartisan League members from ND and MN who moved into the region.

So my best guess is that, much like the German-Russians, you'd see spillover from Canada establishing colonies in the Dakotas as well. You'd likely see larger Jewish communities eventually migrating to Winnipeg, Grand Forks, and Fargo and for the economic prosperity of those to reinforce the rural settlements as well.

Thanks again! Given my own family history I will be acquiring this one for the collection.

I suspect you're right about the long-term impact on Jewish settlement in the upper midwest, my thinking was that in the initial settlement period (say, 1882-1913, actually 1913 might be a bit too late), his may lead to some Jews moving into Canada from the Dakotas.

But as you point out, the two regions were functional one. I recognized the names of many North Dakota towns as ones that play hockey against small Saskatchewan towns (especially Grand Forks, which has hosted the World Junior Championship, the most Canadian of hockey tournaments). And I have family as far south as Omaha.

I was also thinking this success would increase the number of Jews in Winnipeg (which is a very notable city in the Canadian Jewish community. Historically one of the most Jewish Canadian cities, and it was only recently (early 2000s) that Vancouver's Jewish population passed Winnipeg's, despite having close to 4 times the population). As well as Minneapolis, and even Chicago. (And the Twin-Cities Jewish populations aren't as non-existent as might be presumed. The Coen brothers of Fargo fame and Bob Dylan are from Minnesota IIRC).

There is also a good chance that Prairie Jews may prefer the Upper Midwest to Southern Ontario if/when they leave en masse in the 1950s.

(I sort of anticipate the more secular Jews moving on, potentially leaving parts of rural Saskatchewan as a living "open-air musuem" of traditional rural life. Of course, this isn't accounting for how this may butterfly events in Europe.)

 

[DanMcCollum]

Thanks again! Given my own family history I will be acquiring this one for the collection.

I suspect you're right about the long-term impact on Jewish settlement in the upper midwest, my thinking was that in the initial settlement period (say, 1882-1913, actually 1913 might be a bit too late), his may lead to some Jews moving into Canada from the Dakotas.

But as you point out, the two regions were functional one. I recognized the names of many North Dakota towns as ones that play hockey against small Saskatchewan towns (especially Grand Forks, which has hosted the World Junior Championship, the most Canadian of hockey tournaments). And I have family as far south as Omaha.

Indeed. Though as proud adopted Fargoan: Grand Forks sucks!

I was also thinking this success would increase the number of Jews in Winnipeg (which is a very notable city in the Canadian Jewish community. Historically one of the most Jewish Canadian cities, and it was only recently (early 2000s) that Vancouver's Jewish population passed Winnipeg's, despite having close to 4 times the population). As well as Minneapolis, and even Chicago. (And the Twin-Cities Jewish populations aren't as non-existent as might be presumed. The Coen brothers of Fargo fame and Bob Dylan are from Minnesota IIRC).

Dylan is actually from Duluth - they have an entire walk dedicated to his early life in the city, which I always find awesome when I'm there (I'm was a pretty big Dylanhead when I was an undergrad); Al Franken is from the Cities though and has written pretty eloquenlty about the discrimination Jewish Minnesotans faced in Minneapolis and St. Paul during the 1940s and 50s.

There is also a good chance that Prairie Jews may prefer the Upper Midwest to Southern Ontario if/when they leave en masse in the 1950s.

(I sort of anticipate the more secular Jews moving on, potentially leaving parts of rural Saskatchewan as a living "open-air musuem" of traditional rural life. Of course, this isn't accounting for how this may butterfly events in Europe.)

I was going to bring this up (and if I mess up the terms, I apologize - I'm not as versed in Jewish culture and studies as I should/want to be) but I think thinking you may see a religious division between the towns and rural settlements, with Refom being the common denomination in places liek WInnipeg, Fargo, Saksatoon, etc and Orthodox being much more prevalent in the hinterlands. You see this, to an extent, with other immigrant communities - even when they remain part of the same denomination (though that's not to overplay it either; and I'd be hesitant to try to break that down on political lines of all things.)

 

[durante]

Indeed. Though as proud adopted Fargoan: Grand Forks sucks!



Dylan is actually from Duluth - they have an entire walk dedicated to his early life in the city, which I always find awesome when I'm there (I'm was a pretty big Dylanhead when I was an undergrad); Al Franken is from the Cities though and has written pretty eloquenlty about the discrimination Jewish Minnesotans faced in Minneapolis and St. Paul during the 1940s and 50s.



I was going to bring this up (and if I mess up the terms, I apologize - I'm not as versed in Jewish culture and studies as I should/want to be) but I think thinking you may see a religious division between the towns and rural settlements, with Refom being the common denomination in places liek WInnipeg, Fargo, Saksatoon, etc and Orthodox being much more prevalent in the hinterlands. You see this, to an extent, with other immigrant communities - even when they remain part of the same denomination (though that's not to overplay it either; and I'd be hesitant to try to break that down on political lines of all things.)

Yeah that last bit rings especially true.

One of the biggest differences between Amercian Jewry and Canadian is, technically, the denominations (although we will see why soon).

The largest denominations in the USA are Reform and Orthodox. Whereas in Canada, the vast majority of religious Jews identify as "Conservative", which is in between the two. This is often because most Canadian cities only have the Jewish population for one denomination, and Conservative splits the difference. This can often lead to multiple shuls/sermons being held at the same temple/synagogue, with different levels of "Orthodoxity" between the two.

For comparison, I grew up in a town with a substantial Mennonite population, and so I am hyper-aware of the many denominations of "old order" and "new order" Mennonites. Some Mennonites were my friends, and the only way you could tell they were Mennonite is if they told you.

Other Mennonites were the straight-up horse and buggy style. This was so prevalent in rural areas that until I was about 8 or 9 I thought that farmers didn't have electricity. Like, I thought that everywhere on the planet, farmers lived traditional lifestyles. This wasn't because I was dumb or even ignorant, I lived on the edge of town so was quite familiar with the farming communities. Its just that all the farms around my house were old order Mennonite farms.

This contributed to my idea of the "open air museum". (And not for nothing Yiddish and Pennsylvania Dutch both descend from a similar German dialect and holdover a considerable degree of mutual intelligibility, creating the strong possibility of symbiotic relationships between townie Jews and farmer Mennonites, Amish, Hutterites, etc.)

In the smaller communities, an officially Conservative temple will still likely exist, offering 2 or more shuls or sermons, while the larger communities are likely to develop more along the American style where an outright split occurs between the two denominations. So yes exactly as you predict for Saskatoon, Regina, etc.

Edit: Also, Big Dylanhead as well here. And my dad spent quite a bit of time in Fargo when working for Canadian Pacific. He quite enjoyed the place.

 

[durante]

North Dakota Jewish History

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

South Dakota Jewish History

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

Saskatchewan

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

Reading these 3 small blurbs together certainly is more illuminating than each on their own.


@Plateosaurus in the Saskatchewan one we have an indication that the early Jewish-First Nations relations were quite amicable, as they later would be with Christian immigrants from Eastern and Central Europe.

It also appear that Ms Landau's lecture quoted at the top of the article missed a few points:

-The first Jew to settle in what was to become Saskatchewan was a Russian Jew at Fort Qu'Apelle (near modern day Regina) in 1877.

The timing means it's quite possible to even likely he came from a Dakota.

And the first Jewish communal settlement was not Wapella in 1888, but in fact New Jeruslam, near Moosomin, in 1882, the year the pogroms began.

 

[durante]

And now that I've said Moosomin, I'm constitutionally obligated to include this song:

(Randy Bachman isn't Jewish, but my father thinks he is).

 

[marktaha]

Im sure Palestine* already had big urbanised cities through Jerusulem.

Compare Israel with that there was before. Democracy with guts!

 

[DanMcCollum]

Edit: Also, Big Dylanhead as well here. And my dad spent quite a bit of time in Fargo when working for Canadian Pacific. He quite enjoyed the place.

I remember when my bestfriend and I found out that Dylan lived in Fargo one summer, where he performed with Eddie Vee as Elmet Gunnn (with three ns, thank you very much!). We ended up tracking down all the places he used to go and now pride ourselves has (probably) having drank at the same bars as Bob Bloody Dylan!

And yeah, Fargo is a great town. Way cooler than a town that size has any right to be (as we always used to say back in the day). Whenever I'm back in the States from school, I always go and spend a week there - it's one of my favorite places (and my first published paper was about prohibition in Fargo. So it's one of my professional interests as well)

 

[durante]

Anecdote warning, but there's a particular thing about rural life in the Northern Plains/prairies which gave rise to the "Jewish general store" as a Saskatchewan trope briefly (alongside the Chinese restaurant/laundromat).

The farms in the area are large by necessity. And because they are so dependent on railway transport (it wasn't economically feasible to farm wheat if you
were much more than 20 miles from a railway), settlement tends to spread along the railways, with regional centers every sixty miles or so and smaller centers in between.

So, especially before automobiles were common in the area, travel to town was necessary for purchases, banking, post, accounting, law, and sometimes even education, but it was also often time consuming and inconvenient.

But what is the one day of the week that everyone is guaranteed to come into town?

Sunday. For church, of course, which was a major social gathering for folks of all denominations at the time.

Which is to say, there is a strong incentive in each of these Prairie communities to have a local general store which will be open on Sunday. Even open while the churches are doing the sermons. It's better for everyone that way. Just as Jews sometimes hired help on Shabbes, who would watch your horse and wagon while everyone was in the Church?

This is the origin of the Jewish general store among the farmers of Saskatchewan, who were predominately either Ukrainians or religious minorities of German extraction from Russia. Another helpful factor for my own great great grandfather was that he spoke German, Yiddish, and Ukrainian. Combine this with the fact he could work on Sunday and it'd be crazy if he didn't open a store.

Another unrelated tidbit, but based on the areas they came from, I suspected that many of the early settlers would be hasidic. The research I've done into the Jewish settlers in the area suggests this is correct. (And the area rightly includes Minnesota and Manitoba. In fact, the distance from New York to Toronto is very similar to the distance from Minneapolis to Winnipeg.)

So, considering the "open air museum" ideas deriving from a rural-urban divide, the Russian and Ukrainian hasidic origins of many of the settlers, and the similarities in climate, I'll answer @Analytical Engine 's question:

"Would 'Fiddler On the Roof' have to be set in Canada ITTL?"

A: No, but it would almost certainly be filmed there.

 

[Aghasverov]

And now that I've said Moosomin, I'm constitutionally obligated to include this song:

(Randy Bachman isn't Jewish, but my father thinks he is).

Well, Randy Bachman isn't Jewish, but he is Mormon... so he likely believes that Jews have a LONG history in what's now Canada

 

[CountofDooku]

So are we talking about a increased growign immigration, or more isolated, small comunities, kind of like Jewish Amish?

Either way interesting idea, I like it, watched

 

[durante]

Well, Randy Bachman isn't Jewish, but he is Mormon... so he likely believes that Jews have a LONG history in what's now Canada

I did not know that. Cheers.

So are we talking about a increased growign immigration, or more isolated, small comunities, kind of like Jewish Amish?

Either way interesting idea, I like it, watched

Haha yeah that is exactly what I'm talking about. I'll have to add this book to the collection as well. Family legend is that we were Jewish cowboys in Ukraine, based on our surname.

 

[CountofDooku]

Haha yeah that is exactly what I'm talking about. I'll have to add this book to the collection as well. Family legend is that we were Jewish cowboys in Ukraine, based on our surname.

My Jewish Hirsch ancestors just bread and sold horses in Silesia on our estate among other things, but close enough for me, I still love riding horses (mostly because riding a cow looks rather weird and no matter what my GF jokingly believes giant lizzards like the comodo dragon are not for riding or being pets, except in fantasy games) :3

 

[DanMcCollum]

My Jewish Hirsch ancestors just bread and sold horses in Silesia on our estate among other things, but close enough for me, I still love riding horses (mostly because riding a cow looks rather weird and no matter what my GF jokingly believes giant lizzards like the comodo dragon are not for riding or being pets, except in fantasy games) :3

Oh god, I think we're nearing Critical Levels of Rural, but this reminds me of the story of the time my Mom's older sister bet she could ride a cow on the family farm. She lasted a few seconds before getting bucked off and (luckily) avoided being trampled. Lost the bet

Come back next time I explain why the inticrite connections and rivals between the towns near where I lived all go back to ethnic tensions of the original immigrant community (and religion), and share a humorous tale about the time my sister coasted her bike into a blackberry bramble and ... fell over

 

[PGSBHurricane]

Being Jewish myself, I agree with most that most Jews would tend to go to cities or at least suburbs since most were not farmers. However, I at least think the Plains could have attracted more Jews (particularly in the Southern Plains with Germans, including many Jews, arriving en masse in the 1800s and the whole Galveston Movement plus interesting developments in Wichita and Omaha). Even to a lesser extent, there was a gold rush in Deadwood, South Dakota which attracted hundreds of Jews OTL.

 

[PGSBHurricane]

I'm watching this with anticipation by the way.

 

[Twin City Lines]

Yes, because as someone who grew up in a rural area myself, I can attest that there were NO towns of any size for hundreds of miles in any direction. The same when I moved to North Dakota - I was shocked to find that Fargo was not only the biggest urban center in the state ... it was the only one. Eveyone else just lived on farms with no communities of any size across the entirety of the northern plains

Are Grand Forks, Bismarck, and Minot imaginary?

 

[Minchandre]

The question Is why, you can pretty much do one thing on the prairies; farming. Jews was not really farmers and from I have read the few Jews who did began farming in USA and Canada focused on animal factory farms relative close to cities.

Farmers were never a larger part of the Russian Jewish population, for sure. But the prairie population is many many times smaller:

I found an excellent summary of Jewish professions in the Pale: https://yannayspitzer.net/2012/09/30/jewish-occupations-in-the-pale-of-settlement/

The tl;dr is that a small number of Jews were engaged in farming (probably about 5%), but Jews in general were engaged in every other form of profession, many helpful to small communities. The single largest category is making clothing. Then "personal and domestic services", "trading in all other agricultural products", and "general commerce".

 

[durante]

I found an excellent summary of Jewish professions in the Pale: https://yannayspitzer.net/2012/09/30/jewish-occupations-in-the-pale-of-settlement/

The tl;dr is that a small number of Jews were engaged in farming (probably about 5%), but Jews in general were engaged in every other form of profession, many helpful to small communities. The single largest category is making clothing. Then "personal and domestic services", "trading in all other agricultural products", and "general commerce".

Cheers for this it will be very helpful.

I was going to mention the "Jewish tailor", it was perhaps the most stereotypically Jewish occupation in North America until probably after WWII. Most famously in New York but in many towns, Jewish tailors and clothiers were the only Jewish presence. The aforementioned first Jew in Saskatchewan was the tailor at a Hudson's Bay Company Fort. He was from Russia.

Clothing sales and tailoring were much more important than now, however. In the early settlement of the prairies, before modern banking institutions and credit, cloth was as good as currency. It was incredibly useful, most people made their own clothes as well as blankets, etc, and it didn't spoil, and if kept properly would barely degrade.

It was not uncommon for a grain farmer to use the profits from their years harvest to clear their debts, make all necessary purchases for the year, and then with what was left over, give it all to their wife and tell her to go pick out the cloth she wants.

Oh wait! Dear just leave me enough for a nice bottle, then the rest is for cloth.

It would be interesting to do perhaps a comparison of my family store in Saskatchewan to a typical one in Ukraine.

 

[Indiana Beach Crow]

So are we talking about a increased growign immigration, or more isolated, small comunities, kind of like Jewish Amish?

Either way interesting idea, I like it, watched