Red Star: A Soviet Lunar Landing

So I agree that the US or the Soviets using their best rocket to launch some heavyweight probes would be cool, but I am not sure that either would do so - at least not in the 70s. It's an awful lot of egg to put on one launch.

I think you need an entire new run of Saturn V's to even have that discussion on the table.

And even then, it seems like a long shot. It's a lot of eggs to put in one basket, when it's much easier to design smaller probes requiring less delta V - in short, alternative approaches are readily to hand. Whereas the heavy lift is absolutely needed for lunar manned missions and building space stations.
 
Or, long story short, cheap and cruddy design augmented by cheap and cruddy quality control to achieve a near 100% failure rate. It's less that Soviet Mars probes got unlucky, really, than that their Venera probes seem to have gotten lucky. I really can't see that changing--these problems are endemic to Soviet industry as a whole and it'd take a lot morethan what's happened so far to sort that out. Really, I'm still wondering when they'll finally have a fatal incident on the Moon. They have catastrophic, deadly failures everywhere else...

I'm going on a family road trip for a week and may or may not have Internet access and time to stay current; right now I'm trying to finish preparations. Whereas we've been circling around this point all through the thread and I was in grave danger of going off on yet another long rambling post I can ill afford; I'm sure no one is too dejected.:eek:

This is fundamentally an ideological question I guess. Can the Soviet Union as it existed in the half-century after the end of WWII be successful on its own premises, or not? Conventional wisdom nowadays, after its ignominious collapse, is that of course it cannot, the failure was inevitable because it was founded on unsound, inhumane, unreasonable premises. In the decades before that collapse another widespread view in the West was that it probably could but because of its wicked premises this would be an ongoing disaster, a cancerous threat to all humanity including its own miserable subjects.

But could the Soviets have been more successful on their own terms? Could they have found ways to make a nominally workers state, with control of industry centered in a governmental bureaucracy subject to the control of a party dedicated to the idea of material progress for the betterment of all its citizens and on their behalf, work well enough at least to maintain legitimacy?

Do do so, a Leninist society in particular must have been able to deliver on the promise of material progress, and to do that, they must, among other things, have succeeded in making their designs, all across the board, progressively less and less "cruddy." They must have succeeded in making better and better products (without necessarily ever quite attaining parity with Western standards perhaps, but surely narrowing the gap, and probably at least matching them generally by some definite timeframe, perhaps even exceeding in some fields) and doing so with improving economy, so that a broader array of better products was continually being made available, on some premise or other, to ordinary citizens.

Achieving these goals perfectly, according to Soviet ideological dreams, would indeed have led to the Soviet Union becoming the leading power and pioneer of a bold future, a la the young Strugatskys' Noon: 22nd Century science fiction stories. Failing to achieve them spelled doom.

I'm willing to imagine that they could have come down somewhere in the middle, improving enough to stabilize the regime (at least within Soviet Union borders--legitimacy among Eastern Europeans would probably be an ASB pipe dream within our lifetimes anyway) and improve their competitiveness with the West, enough to sell some products on the open market other than petroleum and weapons perhaps.

So the way I read this timeline, some such thing has been happening. The space program benefits from a very high concentration of these reforms and probably pioneers many of them, but if there were not a general improvement spreading all through Soviet society, the specified accomplishments attributed to them here would probably not have been possible--just as you say.

To be sure, if one sticks to the premise that Soviet society was fundamentally wrongheaded and ill-founded, or even if one is open to the possibility it need not be but the authors have failed to show how it has changed and so on this timeline the reforms and evolutions necessary have not happened, it is certainly true the OTL Soviets were capable of massive "hero projects." If that is what we have here, then of course it correct that the rust and rot under the hood you point to must be there, and insofar as it has been scrubbed and patched up by brute force of effort, the cost to the faltering Soviet economy must be still higher than OTL efforts were and the inevitable collapse of the regime must be coming even sooner due in part to this costly white elephant.

So that's the difference in our point of views; surely you don't think it is impossible for human beings in general to achieve a higher standard than the Soviets did OTL, so when you say you don't see that changing here, you mean you don't believe Soviet society is changing on a deep level, and if you say you cannot see that possibly changing, it sounds to me like you believe the Soviet system was just fundamentally incapable of incorporating such changes without transformations so radical it would mean the end of the post-Stalinist Soviet era, perhaps not in name but surely in substance.

There's a lot of opinion in agreement with you on that, and a whole lot of evidence to support the opinion.

I'm more optimistic that an alternative to the capitalist West could achieve parity of general competence as an advanced technological power. Whether the Soviet Union that Khrushchev took from Stalin's dead hands could have been reformed to be that rival power, and evolve to be more worthy of the claims of socialism and communism the regime was premised on rather than less, is a much thornier question.

Nor have the authors spelled out in any specific way how such an evolution might have been accomplished or how it progresses. I've attempted to fill in parts of this background before and really should not repeat any of it now. I do think I should state that not all of it need be pretty or humane, nor need any of it achieve perfection--the West is also brutal in aspects, and far from perfection. They just have to be good enough to survive in competition with what we can achieve.

And in a world with such a Soviet Union in place, the West would also change, in some ways perhaps for the worse, but I suspect the general trend would be a healthy response to a healthy challenge--meaning we would raise the bar the Soviets have to meet.

One specific dimension of greater success would be to reduce the degree of waste in Soviet society. (Again, this waste is relative to the West--we too have wasteful aspects of our system). This waste, taking many forms, including the "cruddy" aspect of engineering (just barely good enough to succeed, some of the time) was colossal by all accounts--this implies to me that even a half-successful campaign to reduce it and recover more of the value of Soviet productivity into useful products and services could alone account for a major advance in standards of living and regime strength.

Such a waste reduction would not be some gimmicky program of course--it is part and parcel of the general evolution of Soviet society toward its own internal goals I've been suggesting might have been possible.

So in the end, what you say you cannot see changing in Soviet engineering, I see as precisely what must have changed to get the results we've seen thus far. It need not close the gap to Western standards in order to have gotten measurably better; getting halfway there would still amount to a transformation of Soviet capability, would it not?

But I don't see why they have to stop halfway, if I believe that perhaps this progress could have been possible at all.
 
Shevek's point is probably even better applied to 2001:A Space-Time Odyssey, 'cause it helps to explain the at least nearly two decades increase in the survival of the Soviet Union.

It helps, here, but isn't entirely necessary. I could imagine, if the Soviet Union saw a Moon landing as important enough to prestige, they could take a money-is-no-object attitude. This would allow application of a sort of brute-force QC. The space effort would be a special-case industry, with a lot of rewards for quality work and a lot of testing. Even this would have some knock-on benefits for the Soviet Union as they now have a reservoir of workers with better QC practices, but a lot of the practices may not be terribly efficient, so too expensive for most purposes.

In the long run, this could go either way, either bankrupting the Soviets even quicker due to spending like a drunk sailor, or the experience may convince the Soviets of the value of Western or QC methods generally and lead to a more sustainable industry. I kind of like the idea of the Soviets and the Japanese cozying up in the seventies or eighties and largely reforming Soviet industry.
 
Some good points there Shevek.
Western Commercial production methods such as built in obsolescense for new Product replacement sales are a relevant point there too as is the "lowest bidder syndrome" which you hinted at in Govt and Military purchases.
Military gear which suffered these disturbing practices came into effect later more clearly in the 70's and 80's.

A lot of Soviet gear may have had defficiencies but generally was built for durability and ruggedness or failing that at least ease of repair via standardisation of parts which were produced en mass.

I too am of the opinion the Soviet Culture and Material development could be strengthened or at least made less shaky.
The Gains in prestige alone in the Space Advances should be propping up the ideology and cultural identity.
 
At the moment, it seems like the Soviets are having better luck than the Americans in space, with no disaster on the scale of the Apollo fire, let alone their OTL disasters. Considering just how careful NASA were during the 60s, I must say, I am with e of pi in finding the Soviet luck rather extra-ordinary. I can easily see the Soviets improving their quality control and taking a less risk-adverse approach to space travel (though this does seem to be an unexplained PoD in this TL) but there is a big difference between that and getting so lucky that all major disasters are avoided entirely.

fasquardon
 
This is fundamentally an ideological question I guess. Can the Soviet Union as it existed in the half-century after the end of WWII be successful on its own premises, or not?

Shevek's point is probably even better applied to 2001:A Space-Time Odyssey, 'cause it helps to explain the at least nearly two decades increase in the survival of the Soviet Union.

Shevek23 statement on Soviet union is happening, behind the scene of 2001: ASTO, first with Khrushchev, then under Kosygin and yes they start also with quality control.
but it not change much at there design philosophy, you know that "US Astronaut using a million dollar ballpoint pen, while the soviet cosmonauts a pencil"
i think there Soviets and Russians are quite successful with there rubust approach, except they need more quality control, see Proton failure series.
 
The Golden Age and the Core Program

During this time robotic exploration wasn't wholly ignored with unmanned planetary and astronomy missions being launched throughout the decade, but at a significantly lower rate than the "Planetary Golden Age" of the 1960s and 1970s.
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The Galileo program was the first of these probes to be flown. Work on the spacecraft began at JPL in 1977, while the Voyager 1 and 2 missions were still being prepared for launch. The mission was finally launched in January 1982, becoming the first unmanned planetary spaceflight of the 1980s. The Galileo spacecraft (originally designated Jupiter Orbiter/Probe) was the first spacecraft to successfully enter orbit around the planet Jupiter after a two and a half year voyage in June 1985. At the same time a atmospheric entry probe was dropped into the depths of the Jovian cloud tops to explore the atmospheric composition of the world. The mission yielded fantastic results about not only Jupiter but also it's entourage of four large Moons, Io, Europa, Ganymede and Callisto, places so big they would be considered Planets if they weren't gravitationally tied to orbit a planetary master such as Jupiter.
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The next mission tried to solve the fact that the Sun (until then) had only been observed from low solar latitudes. The Earth's orbit defines the ecliptic plane, which differs from the Sun's equatorial plane by only 7.25 degrees. Originally, two spacecraft were to be built by NASA and ESA, as the International Solar Polar Mission. One would be sent over Jupiter, then under the Sun. The other would fly under Jupiter, then over the Sun. This would provide simultaneous coverage. Due to cutbacks, the US spacecraft was cancelled in 1981. One spacecraft was designed, and the project recast as Ulysses, due to the indirect and untried flight path. NASA would provide the Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator (RTG) and launch services, ESA would build the spacecraft assigned to Astrium GmbH, Friedrichshafen, Germany (formerly Dornier Systems). The instruments would be split into teams from universities and research institutes in Europe and the United States. This process provided the 10 instruments on board. These changes delayed launch from February 1983 to May 15th 1986 where it was launched thanks to another Titan III, quickly becoming the workhorse of the American space program.
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In 1988 the next unmanned planetary probe was launched by NASA. Beginning in the late 1970s, scientists pushed for a radar mapping mission to Venus. They first sought to construct a spacecraft named the Venus Orbiter Imaging Radar (VOIR), but it became clear that the mission would be beyond the budget constraints imposed by the manned lunar and earth orbit missions. The VOIR mission was cancelled in 1982 but in 1983 a more simplified and lower cost variant of it was proposed and before finally being accepted in FY 1985 before being renamed the Magellan, in honour of the sixteenth-century Portuguese explorer Ferdinand Magellan, known for his exploration, mapping, and circumnavigation of the Earth



  • Obtain near-global radar images of the Venusian surface with a resolution equivalent to optical imaging of 1.0 km per line pair. (primary)
  • Obtain a near-global topographic map with 50 km spatial and 100 m vertical resolution.
  • Obtain near-global gravity field data with 700 km resolution and two to three milligals of accuracy.
  • Develop an understanding of the geological structure of the planet, including its density distribution and dynamics.
After launch by a Titan III in May 1988 the spacecraft performed a short fourth month transfer before it joined the 1978 Pioneer Venus Orbiter (still in orbit) to become the second NASA spacecraft to enter orbit around the world. The results were both fantastic and stunning with all mission goals being completed and exceeded. With the four year mission finally concluded both Pioneer Venus and Magellan de-orbited and crashed into Venus in mid-1992, ending decades of constant Venusian study by both the United States and Soviet Union. Co-incidentally Galileo also de-orbited and crashed into Jupiter (to prevent contamination of the potentially habitable Icy Moons such as Europa) following it's seven year odyssey of the Jovian system. The long unoccupied Skylab E (the last in the Skylab series) was also de-orbited this year because of growing debris in orbit and the risk of control being lost on the spacecraft. Yes, 1992 was the year of crashing.

Also in 1988 NASA launched the all important Cosmic Background Explorer (COBE) onboard a Delta-II, a sophisticated space observatory that would revolutionize our understanding of the universe by giving us a map of the Cosmic Microwave Background and with it the early universe itself (when it was just 350,000 years old). These results were first published in 1991, just three years following launch.

Two years following the launch of Magellan NASA organized Mars Observer to follow in it's footsteps. In 1984, a high priority mission to Mars was set forth by the Solar System Exploration Committee. Then titled the Mars Geoscience/Climatology Orbiter, the Martian Orbiter was planned to expand on the vast information already gathered by the Viking Orbiters/Landers. Preliminary mission goals expected the probe to provide planetary magnetic field data, detection of certain spectral line signatures of minerals on the surface, images of the surface at 1 meter/pixel and global elevation data.
Determine the global elemental and mineralogical character of the surface material.
Define globally the topography and gravitational field.
Establish the nature of the Martian magnetic field .
Determine the temporal and spatial distribution, abundance, sources, and sinks of volatiles and dust over a seasonal cycle.
Explore the structure and circulation of the atmosphere.
The program's total cost was estimated at $813 million. A Titan III successfully launched the vehicle in 1990 but during the interplanetary cruise phase, communication with the spacecraft was lost on August 21, 1991, 3 days prior to orbital insertion. Attempts to re-establish communication with the spacecraft were unsuccessful. This lead to the establishment of a low cost series of exploration missions in the mid 1990s continuing to the late 2000s.

This was a wakeup call not only to the Mars Program but also to the rest of NASA and the message was loud and clear. A single, massively expensive flagship missions result in higher cost, longer delays and higher risk of failure. This and various other factors resulted in the cancellation of the long anticipated Comet Rendezvous Asteroid Flyby (CRAFT) mission. Funding and spare parts from this mission were instead funnelled towards Cassini-Huygens, a combined Saturn Orbiter/Titan lander mission. Despite delays and congressional attempts to cancel the project Cassini successfully launched on a Titan IIIL2 on October 15, 1997.
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Meanwhile in the Soviet Union unmanned space exploration program managed to continue launching missions at it's normally high flight rate (nearly all to Venus) before eventually running out of funds in middle of the decade. The increasing size of manned spaceflight budget made this inevitable with following planetary missions (focused mostly at Mars) being launched irregularly and infrequently. Hence the Soviet planetary program for the 1980s can be summarized as follows.
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1981: Venera 13 (Venus flyby/lander)
1981: Venera 14 (Venus flyby/lander)
1983: Venera 15 (Venus Orbiter)
1983: Venera 16 (Venus Orbiter)
1985: Vega 1 (Venus flyby, lander, balloon, Comet flyby)
1985: Vega 2 (Venus flyby, lander, balloon, Comet flyby)
1989: Phobos 1 (Mars Orbiter, Phobos lander)
1989: Phobos 2 (Mars Orbiter, Phobos lander)
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The prospects for the Soviet Planetary Program in the 1990s however, at least for the moment, looked like they were picking up. With increasing cooperation from France and other European Partners and with a liberalizing economy, the next phase of Soviet unmanned exploration was about to begin.
 
Interesting!

I'm curious, did all of those Soviet missions succeed, or did the Mars Gremlin strike as IOTL?

Also, a minor thing, but IOTL at least Astrium wasn't formed until 2000 (merging Matra Marconi Space and DASA) - in fact the company has gone through 3 more name changes since then (Astrium - EADS Astrium - Airbus Defence and Space) plus a couple of logo changes in between. There's an old joke that you know you're in the aerospace business when you change company twice whilst keeping the same desk :rolleyes:. But I guess someone could have come up with that awful name earlier ITTL :)
 
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I'm curious, did all of those Soviet missions succeed, or did the Mars Gremlin strike as IOTL?

Well, IOTL all the post 1960s Venera missions succeeded along with Vega 1 and Vega-2.

IOTL Phobos-1 was successfully sent on a trajectory to Mars but contact was lost because of a programming error!
Phobos-2 was much more successfull and entered orbit around Mars. It even returned a significant amount of data about both Mars and Phobos before contact was lost. Unfortunately, contact was lost early and before the Phobos lander could be deployed. The failure was once again discovered to be a programming error.

It's safe to say that we can butterfly away programming errors. But, are we actually going to change a decades long tradition of the Mars Goblin gobbling up Russian spacecraft. I'l let the reader decide what happened.
 
It's safe to say that we can butterfly away programming errors. But, are we actually going to change a decades long tradition of the Mars Goblin gobbling up Russian spacecraft. I'l let the reader decide what happened.

I don't see why it would change. The need for Gumbo on the part of the Martian Imperial Family is genetic and I see nothing here that would change that would an outmarriage prior to the 16th century.
 
The Return of the Soviets!

As the 1980’s dawned, both the US and USSR were developing plans for further advancement with regards to both their LEO Space Stations and their respective Lunar Exploration Programmes. In some respects, each held advantages over the other with their selected mission profiles.

For NASA, the sheer capability of the Saturn VB assured them of large payloads to LEO and especially BEO, and they had made use of that. The Skylab Stations performing a wide range of Microgravity and Earth Science Experiments as they orbited the Earth, and their LESA Bases affording them plenty of work over a wide range of the Lunar Surface.
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With the USSR, the more limited N1 (and its immediate cousin, the N-11) forced them to work methods of achieving similar results with smaller equipment, with one method they’d begun work on being the use of modular LEO Manned Space Stations to build a larger station in Orbit rather than send the entire assembly up in a single throw. As for their own Lunar Base, they had elected to send all their equipment to a single site and send whatever was needed to it with each subsequent crew, reducing the required launches to support it.

Now though, the limitations of what the N-1 could achieve was biting. It’s far lower LEO payload when compared to the US’s Saturn VB resulting in a far lesser useful surface payload which in turn imposed limitations on their capabilities for crews on site. So when designing the follow-up to their current Lunar Base, they borrowed a page from their planned Zarya successor, Mir.
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Mir was intended to be the permanent Space Station for the Soviet Manned LEO Programme, comprising of several N-11 launched modules which would then be assembled into a full station in Earth Orbit. To prove this concept, their final planned Zarya Station would be built out of two modules which would effectively double its habitable volume. This was something that could be adapted for their next Lunar Base.
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The plan they decided on was to build a Lunar Base comprising of five primary modules (two each for Habitation and Science/Work with one for Suit Storage and Primary Airlock) arranged in a tight cross formation and connected by inflatable tunnels. Additional launches would carry the open and enclosed Rovers to traverse the Lunar Surface along with the Solar Array to power the base.
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Additionally, they also appealed to the Politburo for an N-1/N-11 upgrade to increase both the payload and subsequent ability of the Lunar Base itself. Following their reviews of various designs to further augment the N-Series, it became obvious that the dated design would make any substantial modification amount to an effective redesign of the entire Launch Vehicle. In an effort to limit the scale of the redesign required, they had selected to redesign the propellant tanks of the N-1 to use the entire permissible volume of the N-1 Stage Walls which could allow a 30% increase in the propellant load, and thus LEO payload. With an appropriate BEO Stage, this in turn would provide a substantial increase in their TLI Payload, to the point where they could finally send the LK and LOK to the Moon with a single-launch, something they had envied NASA for. This in turn could be raised further if they performed the Transposition & Docking Manoeuvre prior to the TLI burn, shedding unwanted Dry Mass that no longer needed to be taken with them.

All of which depended on whether or not the Politburo would be willing to provide the funding for it.
 
It's good to see this back!

I shall be very surprised if the Politburo would give permission for a completely new rocket.

Was there any star wars type program from either the US or the USSR in this TL?

fasquardon
 
It's good to see this back!

Thanks. It'd good to be sable to work on this again.


I shall be very surprised if the Politburo would give permission for a completely new rocket.

Indeed. Because save for the outer skin, there would be very little in common with the current N1 over the proposed uprated version. A penalty imposed by the selected design at the start of its development.


Was there any star wars type program from either the US or the USSR in this TL?

Wait and see.
 
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I'm very glad to see it continue as well!

I bitterly regret, and apologize, that I did not think to nominate this for the Turtledoves, as I could have done and wish I had. I was confused by the new rules and let the whole thing slide.

I am quite willing to wait and see.

One thing I'm waiting for is more explanation on just how the ATL USSR could afford what it has done hitherto, and whether that suggests a more robust order in Russia that will keep some form of the Soviet system going past its OTL 1991 expiration date.

That has crucial bearing on what happens in the 1980s of course. During the 1980s I don't think anyone expected the collapse that did happen with the beginning of the next decade; everyone expected the USSR to plod onward in some form or other and Gorbachev's reforms seemed to indicate it would do so in modified but probably more dynamic style. The Soviet space program in particular appeared to be progressing at a fairly brisk pace, so one possible answer to "how do they do it?" is that they are spending capital the regime really can't afford, and a grim day of reckoning will come.

But since serious questions about whether the Soviet regime could have possibly managed to cover the costs of stuff that has already happened in the timeline have already been raised long ago, it seems to me the only possible answers must involve some real increase in general Soviet capability; just managing to cut down on various forms of waste somewhat would amount to really substantial increases in resources available. In turn, I don't think they could have raised the efficiency of the overall system merely to squeeze out extra juice for high-priority regime projects; OTL they already had the art of using intimidation to get things done down pretty well, the waste in the system stemmed from alienation of ordinary citizens from feeling a stake in the system. In order to realize improved efficiency the citizens would have to feel their stake in the system increasing, which would partially be a matter of outcomes for them that would not only be better but improving at a visible rate; if this were realized, then in turn the baseline of resources from which the regime can extract a greater percentage for use would also be growing, thus the leeway for increased resources for programs like the space program would be very large--if we can believe the regime somehow hits upon a strategy to revitalize the economy.

Most people would suggest this is due to capitalistic reforms a la China, but for reasons I've discussed at some length, IIRC here in fact, in my humble opinion this won't work for the USSR; to put it bluntly, the regime's legitimacy rests entirely on providing an alternative to capitalism. The PRC can incorporate capitalistic methods more successfully because it is more of a purely nationalist regime; it is the current Imperial Dynasty; that it is supposed to be Marxist and Maoist as well is more negotiable. My impression is the PRC does still differ in fundamental ways from a properly capitalist system, in that the Party retains control of the "commanding heights" of finance and policy; it isn't really free capitalism in that the rich of China cannot organize separately from the Party and abolish its rule; rather they are co-opted to work within it. Central control means that should a crisis like the Great Depression strike China can ride it out.

But the Russian Communist Party will not be able to follow the Chinese model IMHO; if they allow capitalistic norms to govern the enterprises the Party will lose all legitimacy and we will see a breakdown of the Soviet system and crises essentially similar to OTL in the 1990s. If the Soviet system is to survive, the regime must solve problems in a different fashion entirely, the question being whether this is possible at all.

I also doubt that it can gain strong legitimacy in Eastern Europe (including nominally Soviet parts of it like the Baltic republics) by mere prosperity alone. I would suspect that even in a world where the standard of living in the Warsaw Pact nations as a whole rises to match Western European standards, nationalistic and separatist dissent will remain very strong factors; sustaining the WP will necessarily be repressive.

In a TL where the USSR remains in existence then, I'd expect that this involves a shift of the center of gravity of wealth production within the WP/Comecon sphere toward the USSR itself; OTL the broader Soviet sphere relied disproportionately on production in Eastern Europe. What I'd foresee here is that overall productivity there rises at a lower rate and that the Kremlin would use carrots as well as sticks to try to hang on to control there, and come to rely more and more on increased Soviet production. If then there is a political crisis in which Moscow decides as per OTL more or less that it cannot afford to retain control of Eastern Europe, and these nations all secede from Soviet control, Russia itself (including I'd think every territory ever formally incorporated into the USSR--the Baltics would remain, very reluctantly, and Central Asia, not so unhappily also, along with Ukraine though Ukrainians would probably have to be well-gratified by Soviet success and take a fair share of control of the whole Soviet system, with the Caucasian republics staying in as well) will however find its balance and remain the superpower Soviet Union largely on its own as before WWII. Mongolia would probably remain aligned, Cuba and Vietnam would remain Soviet clients, and under these circumstances I'd guess the USSR would pick up some voluntary allies as well--it is not inconceivable to me that even some former Warsaw Pact clients would renew a closer relationship with the USSR, on sovereign terms, when they find that their relationship with the US-dominated Western system is not everything they might have hoped for.

Or alternatively, the Kremlin pays whatever price it takes, in blood and moral capital, to retain control of Eastern Europe, which will remain a fetter, but not a useless one by any means. If the Soviet system is indeed evolving to be more efficient and effectively incorporate innovations, perhaps in time the resistance of the Eastern European populations to Soviet dominance might soften in some nations--never in Poland I'd think, but maybe say in East Germany?
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I have long wondered, ever since this timeline has inspired in me the idea the N-1 rocket might possibly have been successful, if someone in the USSR might take note that the lower stages bear some resemblance to conical capsules like Mercury and Gemini, and consider whether it might be possible to recover the large first stage downrange where Soviet-launched first stages generally crash to the ground. Make the bottom an effective supersonic aerobrake, design the whole thing to take the heat of being dragged to subsonic terminal velocity, and install parachutes and retrorockets to soft-land it somewhere on the steppe, and voila, reusable first stage!:D

Well, even all that is not quite sufficient; obviously the engines are not designed to be reused many times and probably couldn't be used even once more without major redesign; we've discussed issues of plumbing that would possibly be solved for single launches but might amount to ongoing fatigue that would cause failures on later launches, this too would have to be addressed. I don't think that sufficient strengthening to enable soft landing and reuse would add a very large mass load but obviously that guess could be very sadly mistaken.

And the elephant in the room is--OK, there's a nice reusable N-1 stage sitting in the Siberian or Khazhak steppe--great, how to get it back to Kosmograd for another launch?:eek:

I'm quite serious in proposing the Soviets develop some kind of airship to do this, to go fetch it and winch it aboard. I'd suggest a very conservative modification of the basic Zeppelin design, as opposed to trying to make some sort of hybrid helicopter-aerostat or Cyclocrane or what have you. The Soviets have their own sources of helium and surely are up to making a few big hangars to build and keep the things in, presumably right there at Kosmograd. In addition to retrieving spent stages from the steppe, the airships could also be used to enable factories distant from the launch sites to make stages and other spacecraft elements as big as they like, and not have to worry about whether they would fit on railways or canals. For such infrastructural purposes, an airplane might arguably be as good or better, but only an airship can do the retrieval job that inspires this suggestion--so if they can have it for that, why not use it for other things as well?

A version could be commissioned in the Soviet Navy as the retrieval craft for space craft that come down in the ocean or otherwise not on Soviet soil. Airships are slow compared to airplanes or even helicopters, but they move twice as fast as any surface ship that has any range, and a large airship can have global range. As part of the Soviet Navy in a time of peace it would be protected by the implicit capacity of the USSR to avenge any attack on it, but as an airship it poses little immediate threat by itself, so it seems likely to me it could gain access to the airspace of any nation that isn't deeply committed to hostility to the USSR. In a matter of days it could be pre-positioned in any region of the world, and then upon actual entry of the spacecraft, join it at its landing spot in a matter of hours, and pick it up whole, crew and all, then fly either directly back to the USSR or to the nearest allied base (in Vietnam or Cuba or any number of African countries, assuming that both Soviet prestige and economic capability are greater than OTL) where recovered crew might board jetliners to go home while the airship, refueled, proceeds on home at its own pace with the recovered craft aboard.

I'm pretty darn serious about this. I can see here that the dry mass of an OTL N-1 Blok A stage would have been over 130 tons, which is admittedly pretty high--the Hindenburg however could have lifted a quarter, maybe a third of that as designed, and so considering that it and other big historical airships that had some success (R-100, USN's ZR-4 & 5 aka "Akron" and "Macon") were all built with considerable auxiliary mass installed for passenger accommodations or military uses, we're halfway there already--something to recover a 150+ ton mass is going to have to be bigger than even Hindenburg, especially since it will use helium and not hydrogen for lift. But in the ballpark of the "thousand footer" designs on the drawing boards in the 1930s, and using modern materials can significantly lower the structural weight, freeing up lift both for the cargo itself and auxiliary handling equipment while leaving margin for crew; the version to get back the A stage would not have tremendous distances to cover and so fuel can be a small fraction of its all-up mass. Another rigid of the same basic design but with fuel tanks for truly global range would not be able to retrieve the same huge mass, but well able to get downmasses as high as 40 tons or so. It would be overkill for something the size of a Soyuz capsule, but maybe not if it includes a medical staff and has to go to say the South Pacific.

A few big hangars would accommodate them well enough; in Kosmograd, in the region of Moscow; in a couple other major Soviet industrial regions where big components might be made; on the Soviet Far East coast somewhere, and in Vietnam and Cuba goes a long way to covering the world. Maybe a couple more, in Angola and/or Mozambique, perhaps somewhere in West Africa and maybe one shared with the Indian government in India. That leaves South America and the Pacific not well served but such is the geopolitical map; no Soviet allies in South America but that might change over the decades if the USSR is prosperous and prestigious and the Yankees screw up relations with Brazil or some southern cone nation.

Brazil actually already has a hangar that was constructed in the '30s to accommodate Hindenburg come to think of it--it wouldn't be quite big enough for these 320 or so meter long giants I'm thinking of but a smaller version in the Hindenburg class could be fitted in. Cardington in Britain could hold a somewhat smaller ship; with good relations with the USA quite a number of timber hangars built for WWII blimp operations might be available along with the great hangar at Moffet (now a NASA campus) and the even bigger Airdock in Akron (now owned and operated by Lockheed--OTL; in the 1980s OTL I think Goodyear still owned it). The big hangar at Lakehurst that used to house Hindenburg on its visits to the USA still stands too--of course all of these legacy American hangars have been repurposed to other tasks and would need some major clearing out to again house a giant rigid airship.

The British imperial airship scheme that commissioned R-100 (and R-101) also had some hangars built, in Karachi in particular--Pakistan would tend to remain a US ally and enemy of India, and I'm not sure if the structure was left standing or not anyway.
 
Freedom from Earth

With the rapid increase in Cold War tensions brought about since 1979 with the Iranian revolution, Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, Iran-Iraq War, Nicaraguan Crisis, the election of Ronald Reagan and the subsequent calls on both the sides for space militarization (with the US Strategic Defense Initiative or "Star Wars" and the Soviet Polyus battle station) the need on both sides of the Atlantic for a permanent space station if for no other reason than Cold War competition was becoming increasingly apparent.
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The American solution to Ronald Reagan's 1983 State of the Union Address calling for a cooperative effort among free nations to build a permanent human presence on the Moon and in Earth Orbit was met with an evolutionary approach building on Apollo-Saturn hardware. The proposed Space Station would utilize two large "core-modules" launched together by a single Saturn V with a custom built fairing. These modules would be derived heavily from the previous Skylab series of stations which themselves derived from the S-IVB stage used to send the Apollo CSM-LM stack onto Translunar Injection. However being built specifically for Space Station Freedom meant a number of notable modifications were made while still in the design phase.

To start, a pressurized tunnel was added connecting the two modules, and a single axial port on the aft end of the station (the bottom, when in launch configuration). At the forward/top end, a new MDA is included, with 5 ports. This provides room for 3 crew Apollo Command Service Modules to be docked at once, plus future expansion with additional modules being launched by the Europeans, Japanese and Canadians who by now had all signed on to this project. The station's main storage tanks and airlock would be located just below this, to minimize the distance water, oxygen, and the like have to be moved from arriving cargo Apollo CSMs. Additional solar arrays are another added feature to provide additional power. Initially only 66 KWe would be available with additional assembly flights being necessary to add more solar arrays than could be fit within the fairing for launch configuration. A much simpler solution would have been a nuclear fission reactor, similar to the one under development for SDI, but public opinion was firmly against the use of in-space nuclear power. The station's initial power generating capability would be augmented with an additional 33 KWe expansion capability possible with on-orbit assembly of additional Solar Cells. This power-rich environment would greatly extend the capability to conduct scientific research.
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With the American Core design completed the European Space Agency would now have the opportunity to launch a laboratory module of their design to Freedom. They decided to name this module Columbus after the great European explorer who connected two new worlds, which they hoped their laboratory-experiment module would also contribute to. While the idea of an inflatable module was kicked around ultimately technical conservatism prevailed and a cylindrical rigid/fixed module was chosen among the competing designs. Japan went a similar route by contributing a research-laboratory module customized for different experimental projects to be conducted outside the station with limited astronaut involvement except on EVAs. The Canadian contribution to the project involved the experiments themselves rather than the platforms they would be conducted in/on. Being a Cold War era project, it was only open to countries within the United State's sphere of geopolitical alliances unlike the Soviet Interkosmos program which occasionally included manned and unmanned cooperation between western bloc and eastern bloc countries.

Credit and Thanks to E of Pi for helping develop the concept of the double-Skylab module.
 
Determined to maintain Parity with the US in terms of Spacefaring Capability, the Soviet Union was finalising its plan for their next-generation LEO Space Station. While using the N1 to send a Skylab-matching station had been considered, that would have required them to design a new station from scratch, with the associated costs, time, and risks of such a development, the issue of time was a keen one for the designers, with the American Freedom Station recently approved.

For these reasons, they had opted to send smaller Zarya-derived modules and assemble the complete station in Earth Orbit. With three inline modules and an additional four arranged in a cross, they would be able to sustain a crew of up to six permanently in more living space than had ever been attained in a Soviet Station. Habitation and the Service modules were intended for the three inline modules of which two were to be launched first, while the later-launched science/military experiments were assigned to the remaining modules. In addition to this, the Zarya Modules were sized to remain within the payload limits of the current workhorse N11 Launch Vehicle thus requiring no modifications to it for the station, something that could be of aid to the station development by not having to wait for a new LV to be ready and simply running through the current stock.

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Space Station Mir with Core + Service Modules

It was hoped that they could launched the first component of Mir in mid-1985, by which time the final Zarya Station would be close to the end of its service life, and have construction completed no later than 1990.

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Mir as the additional modules are launched

With regards to the Soviet Plans for their permanent Lunar Base (Kristall), though they had already finalised the design - requiring a total of seven assembly launches, five for the main habitation/work modules plus two for the long-range rover, inflatable tunnels, and solar cell array to power the base - and while having secured permission to augment the N1 and N11 further by engine uprating and common bulkheads for the propellant tanks. The simple fact was that all of that would take time, time they didn’t have if they wanted the Lunar Base operational before the decade’s end.

This in turn required that the components of the Lunar Base be sized to fit within the constraints of the existing N1. To make this work, the required number (plus two reserve) would have to be built early prior to closing production to permit the development of the next generation of N-Series Launch Vehicles. With an expected initial launch date for the first of the modules slated for late-1985, it was intended that at a rate of two launches per year, the Kristall Lunar base would be completed by the end of 1988, and be capable of accommodating crews late in the preceding year.

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N1M on the Launch Pad. Outwardly similar to the N1F, but a world of difference in its interior

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Close-up of the N1M

What they hadn’t planned in for their intended schedules for both Mir and Kristall were long-standing economic factors that would jeopardise far more than just their plans for Space.
 
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What they hadn’t planned in for their intended schedules for both Mir and Kristall were long-standing economic factors that would jeopardise far more than just their plans for Space.

Uh oh, looks like OTL stagnation is not entirely averted...perhaps not at all?:(
 
Aw I hate it when the Soviet Union collapses. :(


Can't wait to finally see a moon base though.

When was the last time anyone set foot on the moon, by this time?
 
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