Protect and Survive: A Timeline
- Thread starter Macragge1
- Start date
Sir Chaos
Banned
Fully agree.
I expect nuking Buenos Aires will come back to bite them in the ass. It simply cannot be a good idea to so thoroughly antagonize one of the world´s last few remaining net food exporters.
I didn't even think of those practical implications!
And now I want a grass-fed steak...
Sir Chaos
Banned
I´ve been in Buenos Aires, 26 years after Macragge1 nuked it. Argentinian steaks are overrated.
Culinary details aside, you´ll have to agree that most of the things you and I would have done differently are not just an ethical issue, but also a practical one.
- you want to maintain a stable government, which is kind of hard when a lot of people are royally pissed with you because you deliberately let their kids, nieces and nephews or grandchildren starve
- you want to feed your people, which is kind of hard if one of the biggest, perhaps THE biggest, remaining food producer in the world just received a nuclear message courtesy of your country
- you want to maintain the health of the survivors, which is kind of hard if you should irreplacable qualified medical professionals
Macragge has already mentioned the British government has made numerous decisions which will come back to bite it in the proverbial rear.
It was a stupid move (at best) in retrospect. Remember though why Britain did it: show of strength. Survival.
The decision not to feed the babies in itself shows the government is thinking short-term and not at all looking down the road.
and, arguably, the "babies don't work" conclusion may have been an isolated case, with other administrators presuming that workers and small/very-small children would both receive rations
I'd suspect that it is indeed the decision of one County Controller rather than a nationwide policy. It is possible that other County and District Controllers have reached similar decisions, we just don't know.
I'm going to sound a bit like a monster here, but humans can always have more children and now may not be the best time to be supporting babies that can't contribute to the recovery period.
I'm going to sound a bit like a monster here, but humans can always have more children and now may not be the best time to be supporting babies that can't contribute to the recovery period.
The decision to shoot the nurse who euthanised a close relative seems crazy and irrational with the benefit of hindsight. You can however make the point that if anyone is allowed to do this without fearing consequences then anarchy would simply set in. Anarchy is precisely the last thing Britain needs at the moment, as it would effectively mean the end of reconstruction and recovery operations.
The decision to nuke Buenos Aires is hard to understand (though frankly lets face it, the Argentines might never know where the nuke came from) as Argentina might be the last food exporter in the entire world. Yet Britain needs to stay strong and respected and can't allow an insult to go unanswered. Sending a task force to recover the islands is out of the question, so that leaves the nuclear option as the only possible option.
From what we know of the story so far the status of the world seems to be the following:
Europe:
-Britain is in recovery mode, severly wounded but not mortally wounded, the fact that the central government is intact in Corsham is a massive help in itself. In the long run, Britain has the land and the coal to recover fully.
-France is a huge unknown, it seems that some parts of the country are mostlu unscathed but with the loss of Paris and a government fleeing in Guyana things will become more diffcult in the long run.
-The Benelux and Germany are probably gone as structured countries though parts of the government may have survived.
-Switzerland is "okay" and I see several new cantons in the Confederation by TTL 2011 in what used to be Austria and Southern Germany.
-Spain, Portugal and Italy are huge unknowns. I suspect that these countries have been even less targetted than France however, especially in their southern parts. By TTL 2011 the centre of Europe will have moved back to the central Mediterranean Sea in all probabilities.
-Eastern Europe is a big unknow but casualties and destruction are massive.
-Scandinavia is a big unknown, Sweden and Finland may not have recieved a lot of bombs.
North America:
-Canada is an unknown, likely severly damaged though.
-America is in the deep shit since there is no central government, balkanisation could occurs but is unlikely in my opinion.
South America:
Each country has likely recieved at least one bomb. Brazil if spared multiple hits has become a superpower overnight.
Africa:
Back to the Dark Ages really, casualties in the hundreds of millions from starvation and possibly mass cannibalism.
Asia:
China must have suffered very hard, I would say at least half of its population is already dead or dying.
India must have been hit hard too, a war may have taken place with Pakistan. Potentially dozen of millions of deaths especially if mass religious strife takes place.
The remainder of Asia has probably been hit hard in places, the stoppage of international trade and food help will kill millions.
Middle-East
I assume that Israel has launched its Samson Option against its Arab neighbours, in this case Egypt is gone (no more Aswan Dam) and the remainder of the Arab world sent back to the stone age.
Oceania:
Both Australia and New Zealand may become great powers by TTL 2011 if they have not suffered many hits. The English speaking world is safe there in a sense.
The decision to nuke Buenos Aires is hard to understand (though frankly lets face it, the Argentines might never know where the nuke came from) as Argentina might be the last food exporter in the entire world. Yet Britain needs to stay strong and respected and can't allow an insult to go unanswered. Sending a task force to recover the islands is out of the question, so that leaves the nuclear option as the only possible option.
From what we know of the story so far the status of the world seems to be the following:
Europe:
-Britain is in recovery mode, severly wounded but not mortally wounded, the fact that the central government is intact in Corsham is a massive help in itself. In the long run, Britain has the land and the coal to recover fully.
-France is a huge unknown, it seems that some parts of the country are mostlu unscathed but with the loss of Paris and a government fleeing in Guyana things will become more diffcult in the long run.
-The Benelux and Germany are probably gone as structured countries though parts of the government may have survived.
-Switzerland is "okay" and I see several new cantons in the Confederation by TTL 2011 in what used to be Austria and Southern Germany.
-Spain, Portugal and Italy are huge unknowns. I suspect that these countries have been even less targetted than France however, especially in their southern parts. By TTL 2011 the centre of Europe will have moved back to the central Mediterranean Sea in all probabilities.
-Eastern Europe is a big unknow but casualties and destruction are massive.
-Scandinavia is a big unknown, Sweden and Finland may not have recieved a lot of bombs.
North America:
-Canada is an unknown, likely severly damaged though.
-America is in the deep shit since there is no central government, balkanisation could occurs but is unlikely in my opinion.
South America:
Each country has likely recieved at least one bomb. Brazil if spared multiple hits has become a superpower overnight.
Africa:
Back to the Dark Ages really, casualties in the hundreds of millions from starvation and possibly mass cannibalism.
Asia:
China must have suffered very hard, I would say at least half of its population is already dead or dying.
India must have been hit hard too, a war may have taken place with Pakistan. Potentially dozen of millions of deaths especially if mass religious strife takes place.
The remainder of Asia has probably been hit hard in places, the stoppage of international trade and food help will kill millions.
Middle-East
I assume that Israel has launched its Samson Option against its Arab neighbours, in this case Egypt is gone (no more Aswan Dam) and the remainder of the Arab world sent back to the stone age.
Oceania:
Both Australia and New Zealand may become great powers by TTL 2011 if they have not suffered many hits. The English speaking world is safe there in a sense.
Sir Chaos
Banned
If they can avoid being conquered by a hungry superpower, I imagine Argentina profit immensely from being a food provider, if shipping facilities survive. Plus, with most of the country relatively clean (i.e. fallout-less), they will probably receive immigrants as soon as some means of travel is restored - they should be able to pick exactly who they want to come, i.e. only those who contribute to the country.
Don´t forget Japan. It has probably caught a number of Soviet nukes, perhaps a Chinese nuke or two as well, and now has noone to import food, oil and other resources from. They are deep in the doo-doo as well.
I wonder what happened to Indonesia. They have some oil and no pressing mortal enemies; if they can feed themselves, they should be in a very good position to become at least a regional superpower, perhaps similar to Brazil.
Well, I have no ill will towards the ordinary Afrikaners, but these were the gov't and S.A. elite who were the passengers on board, and sadly, many of THEM were real bastards{Not to mention there were probably some Boer and/or other Afrikaners amongst the unfortunate civilians whose ashes were burned onto the other ship.} Just thought I'd make that distinction.
I wonder if there would be attempts by people in South Africa (black or white) to head up into Zimbabwe, formerly Rhodesia would that just be another example of the racial violence spreading from the South to settle old scores?
Zimbabwe would probably be in a complete shambles by this point{April?} but I'd think there'd be a good chance of Robert Mugabe and company leaving Harare before things got too bad, though.
I do not want to imagine what things are like in Japan right now.
Well Indonesia was a nominal US ally, so they may have caught a Soviet nuke or two, if so I could see some opportunistic ethnic strife.
Hm... I am sure there are sources - some of which might even be public - but I've heard contradictory things about the superpowers' policies regarding neutrals were in the case of nuclear war - would they lob a few nukes in their direction to keep them from becoming Great Powers in the aftermath, or would they've put a few more against important targets, to decrease the risk of some important enemy installation managing to survive (nukes not having a 100% success rate)? In any case, in regards to Sweden and Finland, even if they have not themselves received a lot of bombs, there will be a degree of spill-over from strikes on Norway, the Soviet Union and maybe Denmark. Add to that the economic and cultural ties with the neighbouring states, and the likely refugee problem that being relatively unscatched would cause... even if most of the governments and even infrastructure remains intact, Britain-levels of recovery seems unlikely, to say the least.
Das_Colonel
Banned
Cant believe I just read through 80 odd pages (even sneaking at work on my iPhone). This stuff is addictive
I don't think theres been any confirmation in TL, but it would seem likely that Australia has taken a handful of nukes... likely Sydney (major population centre and Fleet Base East, possible refuge for surviving USN CVNs and SSNs), Melbourne (major population centre and home to our limited military aviation industry), Darwin (nearby airfields as potential B-52 bases) and Perth (Fleet Base West, as per Sydney) are damaged or destroyed, while Canberra (the capital *duh*), Newcastle (RAAF Airbase north of town, a major steel mill and shipbuilding), Adelaide (automotive plants) and Woollongong (another steel mill) may also have been hit.
Anyway, Australia's agricultural heartland will not be too badly effected -some fallout from Perth over the WA wheat belt and over the Murry Darling from Melbourne and Sydney... but nothing compared to the fallout landing in Europe and the US. There should also be enough light industry and small scale heavy industry surviving that at least a early to mid-20th Century tech base can be maintained. And being a federal system... well, if the more minor state capitals (Hobart, Adelaide and Brisbane) aren't hit then there should still be a reserve of people with administrative abilities to speed up the rebuilding effort.