Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread

[arps123_woo]

We continue with Iberia with this quote:
"We will win at least 265 seats . The whole existing order will be overturned . Azaña will play Kerensky to my Lenin . Within five years the republic will be so organized that it will be easy for my party to use it as a stepping stone to our objective . A union of Iberian Soviet republics — that is our aim . The Iberian peninsula will again be one country . Portugal will come in , peaceably we hope , but by force if necessary . You see here behind bars the future master of Spain ! Lenin declared Spain would be the second Soviet Republic in Europe . Lenin ' s prophecy will come true ."
This was from Francisco Largo Caballero, the Spanish Lenin, before the elections of 1936. Apparently he evisioned a little USSR in Iberia. I don't know how it would consist, maybe a Catalan, Basque, Galician, Portuguese and Spanish socialists republics. I don't know what would happened with the african colonies tho.

 

[DaniCBP]

It's interesting that he wants Portugal but none of its or Spain's island possessions in Africa.

As far as I can read on the screenshot and some guessing, I suppose he thinks that these possessions aren't as developed or populated to become states of its own, rather they would be federal territories or something like that.

 

[Fire and shadow]

View attachment 836349

So this is how would it look.

How large was the population of the Philippines compared to mainland Iberia at the time?

 

[Analytical Engine]

How large was the population of the Philippines compared to mainland Iberia at the time?

According to wikipedia:

The 1877 census of the Philippines = 5,567,685 people (excluding non-Christians).
The 1887 census of the Philippines = 5,984,727 people (excluding non-Christians).
The 1903 census of the Philippines = 7,635,426 people

(the 1898 census wasn't finished...I assume for obvious reasons).

Demographics of the Philippines - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Census in the Philippines - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The 1877 census of Spain = 16,622,175 people.
The 1887 census of Spain = 17,549,608 people.

Demographics of Spain - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The 1878 census of Portugal = 4,550,699 people.
The 1890 census of Portugal = 5,049,729 people.

Demographics of Portugal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The 1881 population of Iberia would probably be about 21 million. I'd say that the Philippine population would be just over a quarter of that.

 

[Fire and shadow]

According to wikipedia:

The 1877 census of the Philippines = 5,567,685 people (excluding non-Christians).
The 1887 census of the Philippines = 5,984,727 people (excluding non-Christians).
The 1903 census of the Philippines = 7,635,426 people

(the 1898 census wasn't finished...I assume for obvious reasons).

Demographics of the Philippines - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Census in the Philippines - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The 1877 census of Spain = 16,622,175 people.
The 1887 census of Spain = 17,549,608 people.

Demographics of Spain - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The 1878 census of Portugal = 4,550,699 people.
The 1890 census of Portugal = 5,049,729 people.

Demographics of Portugal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The 1881 population of Iberia would probably be about 21 million. I'd say that the Philippine population would be just over a quarter of that.

Thanks, I was already guessing the population of European colonies would be far less compared to the mainland before 1950.

 

[Analytical Engine]

Thanks, I was already guessing the population of European colonies would be far less compared to the mainland before 1950.

No problem. Seeing as though the Philippines had a comparable population to Portugal, it being one state would make sense for the time.

Eventually, though, it would have to be carved up into multiple states, or jettisoned.

 

[West234]

A map from 1857 proposing an alternate 7 proveniences of eastern Australia created by John Dunmore Lang

 

[oshron]

View attachment 836481
A map from 1857 proposing an alternate 7 proveniences of eastern Australia created by John Dunmore Lang

i'd love to see Worlda maps of all the different proposed Australian provinces and territories makes me wonder how many there would be if all the borders were overlaid on each other, including from its OTL territorial evolution

 

[Wendell]

View attachment 836481
A map from 1857 proposing an alternate 7 proveniences of eastern Australia created by John Dunmore Lang

How come no one has ever tried to have an Australian colony called New North Wales?

 

[Aghasverov]

How come no one has ever tried to have an Australian colony called New North Wales?

I suppose they'd have to find some New Wales north of the Old Wales.... And that just sounds bleak as hell for some reason

 

[Crying]

https://crionic-dubs.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F719818313441656832

 

[Crazy Boris]

https://crionic-dubs.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F719818313441656832

In the unlikely event Hubbard’s constitution is adopted and he becomes influential in the country...

Our world is just a few degrees separated from one where Rhodesia is effectively controlled by the Church of Scientology

I kind of want to see a TL that’s just “what if all these batshit insane things that sound too crazy to be true but are that almost happened actually did happen.”

 

[Wendell]

Tumblr is still around?

 

[BrobDingnag]

Rhodesia is effectively controlled by the Church of Scientology

Would that mean that daisy dukes officially become a religious garment?

 

[Wendell]

From Wikipedia:

The terms of the treaty were negotiated at Asmara, in the northern reaches of the Ethiopian empire, by Mason Bey for Egypt, Admiral William Hewett for Britain and Ras Alula, also acting as host, for Ethiopia. Once terms had been agreed, the party moved to Adwa, where the treaty was presented to Emperor Yohannes IV of Ethiopia. The emperor demanded a seaport for Ethiopia, but later compromised. The final treaty represented a triumph of Anglo-Egyptian interests

Suppose the Ethiopians were permitted to directly control and retain Massawa?

 

[NorthTension]

From Wikipedia:

Suppose the Ethiopians were permitted to directly control and retain Massawa?

assuming it might look like the bevin-sforza plan?
i also attempted to map it out in the HOI4 mod mappa mundi (ignore greater somalia):

 

[Workable Goblin]

There was a brief period of time I would say from 1950-1970 where proposals like this were quite common. Most of them seem to be made by fringe politicians or people and they were quickly dismissed by any scientist or academics for their impracticality and dangerous nature. I don’t really know why so many existing it might be the idea of easily blowing up big canals or creating mega projects with nukes seemed worth the cost to some people who did not fully understand the consequences something like that would have.

Quite the contrary, most of these ideas were brought up by scientists (Edward Teller was particularly infamous for proposing nukes as the solution to basically every problem he encountered). There were two basic reasons for this, the first being parochial (the scientists proposing these ideas were at the weapons labs and had both personal and professional interests in the use of nuclear devices) and the second being that using nuclear explosives is a logical extension of the use of regular explosives in various applications. It is not even unreasonable if you believe the radiation hormesis model instead of the linear no-threshold model (in which case a smallish radiation leak is an unfortunate but rather harmless occurrence rather than a life-threatening event)--and there is no actual evidence for either model (the differences come in at low doses that are extremely difficult to study).

 

[West234]

https://crionic-dubs.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F719818313441656832

I found something quite interesting
[/URL]hubbard/l-ron-hubbard-in-africa.html
This one is a Scientology-owned website so do not take anything here as fact however, it does mention some of the build-up in that it seems that L Ron Hubbard was trying to expand Scientology to Africa where he traveled to both South Africa and Rhodesia for a time and he was eventually denied his visa which forced him to leave. One particularly interesting aspect here is that it mentions a "bill of rights" and the constitution he wrote for South Africa.
I tried to find this constitution online but I have had no luck it seems it might just have been lost to time however the fact that the Rhodesian constitution exists makes me believe that this one likely does as well.

 

[Pax_Nihil]

In the unlikely event Hubbard’s constitution is adopted and he becomes influential in the country...

Our world is just a few degrees separated from one where Rhodesia is effectively controlled by the Church of Scientology

I kind of want to see a TL that’s just “what if all these batshit insane things that sound too crazy to be true but are that almost happened actually did happen.”

You know somewhere in the depths of my consciousness I have a mostly fleshed out scenario where the Church of Scientology is the only thing that is preventing North Korea from being destroyed after the aftermath of the film Team America: World Police. I have been holding on to the scenario for years because I am assuming that nobody is interested in such an abomination.

 

[WheelyWheelyLegsNoFeely]

A

So this article claims that the Russians wanted to install a Romanov prince as King of Czechoslovakia in the event of victory in World War I. Was there a particular individual they had in mind for this?