Perception of Communism after Nazi victory

[Urban fox]

Yet who supported them in the invasion of Poland???

Who gave them a lot of resources and fuel without which the Offensive against France would have had much smaller chance of sucess??

Who gave them metereological data during the Battle of Britain??

Who is worse?

The one who starts a war or the one who supports the one starting a war??

Um, Hitler didnt need anyone to push him into war. He wanted to go to war in 1938 and was only just persuaded to agree to the deal at Munich.

The Soviets were expecting the war in the west to grind on for years while they themselves could remain umharmed & nibble up territory at the edges. While the double-dealing Anglo-French & crazy Germans killed each other. The fact that the Germans beat France in six weeks shocked the Germans themselves.

The Soviets may have been deeply cynical in their signing of the M-R Pact but no more so than most other states at the time.

 

[Snake Featherston]

Yet who supported them in the invasion of Poland???

Who gave them a lot of resources and fuel without which the Offensive against France would have had much smaller chance of sucess??

Who gave them metereological data during the Battle of Britain??

Who is worse?

The one who starts a war or the one who supports the one starting a war??

The Nazis wanted a war in four years regardless. Any self-serving claims that German nationalities' grievances, real or imagined, had anything to do with it were just that: self-serving claims. There was not a scrap of truth in or about any of them. The Hossbach Memorandum made it clear: Nazi Germany was to re-arm for a war in four years. This was the sole, only, and true goal. How it happened was contingent and dependent on circumstances, the goal was not.

Yes the USSR invading Poland and Finnland and the Baltic and Bessarabia was done reluctantly only because of fear of Germany

Reluctantly, no. The Baltic States and Poland, yes actually from a fear of Germany. Finland was a purely revanchist attempt to reverse one of the few real-true White successes of the Russian Civil War.

Yes the Nazi concept of killing people because of their race/ethnicity is different from the communist concept of killing people because of their social class.

Allthough why were the 172 000 Koreans deported in 1937, or all Poles and Germans removed from the Soviet armament industry during the Great Terror? Because the Commies sometimes did kill/deport people just because of their ethnicity.

And had the USSR not supplied and helped Germany from 1939-1941 Germany wouldnt have probably been able to launch Barbarossa - and even if than with much smaller sucess.

So the USSR had it coming - and is at least partially responsible for the invasion - since they made it possible.

I suppose that appeasement means this applies equally to the UK and France, y/n?

The fact is that de facto all Nazi crimes happened during war
While most Communist crimes happened during peace time

One could argue that the Nazi crimes happened because of war - while communism killed around the clock during war and peace time.

Its also true that from 1933-1939 the Nazis had killed and imprisoned lets say 100 000 people. While the USSR was at around 20 Million killed and imprisioned and deported people by 1939 - allthough they had a headstart of allmost 10 years.

Given the whole Nazi goal was a war to eradicate tens of millions of people all along, this distinction is one that is trite and has nothing whatsoever to do with the realities of the Nazi regime.

 

[truelies]

Bullshit. The Spviet Union was brutal, but that was nothing compared to Nazi Germany.

In twelve years they killed tens of millions of people. They had plans to kill tens of millions more under Generalplan Ost. They were aiming at nothing less tha. The total extermination of multiple races. The Nazis were the most evil group that has be Ever existed, period and no contest.

There is good reason to doubt that Generalplan Ost ever existed except as postwar allied proaganda. On the otherhand The Morgenthau Plan DID result in the deaths of around 5 million German civilians in the western zones of occupation, not counting millions more murdered by the soviet union.

Wanna hang the guilt on any particular group for the carnage of WW2, start with Churchill and his gang. Had they not encouraged the Polish dictator into an unreasonable resistance to legit German demands that German populated areas of Poland return to the Reich Poland & Germany quite likely could have come to agreement & been actual allies against the real threat to western civilisation- communism in Russia.

 

[Urban fox]

There is good reason to doubt that Generalplan Ost ever existed except as postwar allied proaganda. On the otherhand The Morgenthau Plan DID result in the deaths of around 5 million German civilians in the western zones of occupation, not counting millions more murdered by the soviet union.

Wanna hang the guilt on any particular group for the carnage of WW2, start with Churchill and his gang. Had they not encouraged the Polish dictator into an unreasonable resistance to legit German demands that German populated areas of Poland return to the Reich Poland & Germany quite likely could have come to agreement & been actual allies against the real threat to western civilisation- communism in Russia.

Hello, Mr David Irving. It's nice to have some high-profile members on the forurm.

Seriously though. Are you trying to compare the actual Nazis actions and long-range goals. To an Allied plan that was discarded and that even the Soviets would baulk at?

Reported.

 

[truelies]

Hello, Mr David Irving. It's nice to have some high-profile members on the forurm.

Mr Irving is an interesting historical revisionist, but the bulk of my post was crafted from from the more recent historical analysis of Pat Buchanan and some reference to the ungoing Turtledove alternate WW2 saga where in fact Poland and Germany are allies in a drive to the east.

 

[Snake Featherston]

There is good reason to doubt that Generalplan Ost ever existed except as postwar allied proaganda. On the otherhand The Morgenthau Plan DID result in the deaths of around 5 million German civilians in the western zones of occupation, not counting millions more murdered by the soviet union.

Wanna hang the guilt on any particular group for the carnage of WW2, start with Churchill and his gang. Had they not encouraged the Polish dictator into an unreasonable resistance to legit German demands that German populated areas of Poland return to the Reich Poland & Germany quite likely could have come to agreement & been actual allies against the real threat to western civilisation- communism in Russia.

No there really isn't. Generalplan Ost did exist and was being put into effect until the USSR started rolling back the Germans and reconquering its territory. The Nazis weren't interested in any alliance for Western civilization, they wanted to butcher their way through Eastern Europe to create some demented version of the British Raj combined with Hitler's vision of the USA's expansion into the West.

 

[Snake Featherston]

Mr Irving is an interesting historical revisionist, but the bulk of my post was crafted from from the more recent historical analysis of Pat Buchanan and some reference to the ungoing Turtledove alternate WW2 saga where in fact Poland and Germany are allies in a drive to the east.

Pat Buchanan? ROFLMAO. Try reading what actual WWII scholars (as opposed to some hack who thinks Eurabia is inevitable) think sometime and then get back to us on that.

 

[Ghost8472]

Pat Buchanan? ROFLMAO. Try reading what actual WWII scholars (as opposed to some hack who thinks Eurabia is inevitable) think sometime and then get back to us on that.

Pat is quite a good historian hist Book: Churchill Hitler and the Unnessecary war was amazing.

On the same level as Nicolson Bakers Human smoke.

 

[truelies]

No there really isn't. Generalplan Ost did exist ...........................

welll so you say, but given that actual German docs are a bit thin on the ground in that regard I will need more than your unsupported word.

 

[Snake Featherston]

Pat is quite a good historian hist Book: Churchill Hitler and the Unnessecary war was amazing.

On the same level as Nicolson Bakers Human smoke.

No it isn't and no he is not a good historian in any sense of the word, to call him that is an insult to the proper discipline. Things like the Hossbach Memorandum and Hitler's continual string of breaking agreements without so much as losing a wink of sleep over it at night indicate there was no way to avoid war. Hitler was completely and utterly insistent on a total war for the eradication of civilization over a good-sized chunk of Europe. To claim otherwise is idiocy of the sort that the America Firsters engaged in.

 

[truelies]

Pat Buchanan? ROFLMAO. Try reading what actual WWII scholars (as opposed to some hack who thinks Eurabia is inevitable) think sometime and then get back to us on that.

Hmmmm scholars..............those are the folks who adhere to your brand of PC right.

As to Eurabia, such likely is the future of the dying civilisation in Europe.


Regardless, Pat is correct- the Poles stupidly took at face value a lying Brit promise which Churchill knew he could not honor and hence suffered 50 years of brutal occupation.

 

[Snake Featherston]

welll so you say, but given that actual German docs are a bit thin on the ground in that regard I will need more than your unsupported word.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007454

http://www.dac.neu.edu/holocaust/Hitlers_Plans.htm

http://www.globeatwar.com/blog-entry/wannsee-conference-and-generalplan-ost

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/document/hossbach.htm

 

[Snake Featherston]

Hmmmm scholars..............those are the folks who adhere to your brand of PC right.

As to Eurabia, such likely is the future of the dying civilisation in Europe.


Regardless, Pat is correct- the Poles stupidly took at face value a lying Brit promise which Churchill knew he could not honor and hence suffered 50 years of brutal occupation.

My brand of PC? Friend, I'm from the South. Where I come from my brand of history is very much Un-PC by virtue of having a bit of an iconcolastic take on things. But I can see you're a troll who thinks that Hitler's establishment of the Warthegau and Generalgovernment and from the first relying on mass execution of Polish civilians to bloody his "brave new German men" (how brave it is to shoot unarmed civilians in the back with machine guns, what an inspiration for the New Order ) to the ignore list with thee until you get banned.

 

[I Blame Communism]

Wow. If serious people argued with me I'd feel smarter.

 

[Burton K Wheeler]

There is good reason to doubt that Generalplan Ost ever existed except as postwar allied proaganda. On the otherhand The Morgenthau Plan DID result in the deaths of around 5 million German civilians in the western zones of occupation, not counting millions more murdered by the soviet union.

Wanna hang the guilt on any particular group for the carnage of WW2, start with Churchill and his gang. Had they not encouraged the Polish dictator into an unreasonable resistance to legit German demands that German populated areas of Poland return to the Reich Poland & Germany quite likely could have come to agreement & been actual allies against the real threat to western civilisation- communism in Russia.

Gehen Sie Raus!

 

[BlairWitch749]

There is good reason to doubt that Generalplan Ost ever existed except as postwar allied proaganda. On the otherhand The Morgenthau Plan DID result in the deaths of around 5 million German civilians in the western zones of occupation, not counting millions more murdered by the soviet union.

Wanna hang the guilt on any particular group for the carnage of WW2, start with Churchill and his gang. Had they not encouraged the Polish dictator into an unreasonable resistance to legit German demands that German populated areas of Poland return to the Reich Poland & Germany quite likely could have come to agreement & been actual allies against the real threat to western civilisation- communism in Russia.

Umm... German actions on the eastern front are born out by a massive historical record well beyond the OKH war diary and whilst their total body count is disputed, the activities and motivations are not

Allied handeling of occupied Germany was certainly more benign that what it could have been; there were some deplorable conditions in pow camps in france, and the french themselves were heavy handed in pow treatment... but this is a far cry from the millions who died in German custody during the war

Whatever legitimacy Germany had to claim the corridor and or ethnically German areas that were shorn from them at the end of the first world war; they surrendered by gobbling up Bohemia and Moravia which were not majority German; the bring all Germans back into Germany thing was proven at that point to be completely and utterly window dressing for Hitler's ambition to take over the continent

You are an apologist for nazis, so please, and I mean this will all consideration go fuck yourself with an iron stick

love

bw

 

[CalBear]

Gehen Sie Raus!

Nice!

Short and to the point.

 

[Uff Da the optimist]

There is good reason to doubt that Generalplan Ost ever existed except as postwar allied proaganda

Wanna hang the guilt on any particular group for the carnage of WW2, start with Churchill and his gang.

This guuuy, aaaaah, really brightened my day buddy.

I had to cut out the part about hyper-xenophobic germans becoming bff's with poles and uniting against communism, because people might think I just put that into the quote to be mean.

Now I gotta go see a doctor, I think my funny-bone has broken again.

 

[teg]

Gehen Sie Raus!

You may have gotten the wrong words here BKW, a quick scan revealed that this comes in English as: Go Out! Doesn't have quite the same rhetorical flourish as "Get Out!" does it?

 

[Fellatio Nelson]

Gehen Sie Raus!

Oh Baldie, Baldie, Baldie oh. I feel we made a connection.