Non-expansionist US

[tallwingedgoat]

If Napoleon had not attacked St. Domingue (Haiti), his army would not have perished from tropical diseases on that island. Better yet Napoleon could ally with Toussaint L'Ouverture and recognize freedom for his people. L'Ouverture was actually quite fond of the French before they invaded. In which case French forces would move on in full strength to New Orleans and secure Lousianna Territories as a French colony. There would then be no land sell to the United States. In time who knows, maybe Spain would sell Texas and California to France.

A French North America allied to the free slaves of St. Domingue would put the fright in the slave owners of the American southern states. The sight of black soliders in New Orleans did in fact inspire many American slaves to flee to that city. With France in control of the entire Gulf region with diplomatic recognition of a black country in St. Domingue, there would most certainly be more slave rebellions in the South.

Napoleon would be remembered as a great liberator and the United States would probably adopt a seige mentality rather than expansionist ambitions.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

Putting the cart ahead of the horse just a wee bit, aren't we?

If Napoleon had not attacked St. Domingue (Haiti), his army would not have perished from tropical diseases on that island.

Which does not mean that said troops would have then be sent to North America to a backwater like New Orleans. There are many more useful places for French troops to be used, namely in a hemisphere in which France actually has the ability to defend its interests from the Royal Navy.

Better yet Napoleon could ally with Toussaint L'Ouverture and recognize freedom for his people.

Better yet? There is a very simple reason that France fought for that island: it made money, and much more than "French North America", which has poorly mapped, even more poorly defined, and far too large to secure. It would not make the money if it was not a colony and the workers freed, so Toussaint would have little to offer Napoleon except... "willingly" making massive tribute to French coffers? Don't think that will work.

L'Ouverture was actually quite fond of the French before they invaded.

Not sure how this is relevant. Either, (a) the French have already invaded, and L'Ouverture has since lost his admiration of the French, or (b) another power (IE, Britain) has captured the island for its own profitable colony.

In which case French forces would move on in full strength to New Orleans and secure Lousianna Territories as a French colony.

Louisiana Territory was already a French territory... on paper. The problem was that New Orleans was the only location of note in an area the size of the then-USA, and was a poor holding, and the territory had nowhere near enough settlers to claim control over. Moving the army from the island to New Orleans would accomplish diddly squat under all but the most extreme circumstances. It wouldn't be enough to secure the territory (which is almost a quarter of the now-US, but with only rivers as roads), it wouldn't magically boost the population enough to matter if/when the US buys the land, and it defends no money. It also doesn't change the fact that when France goes to war with Britain, any troop in the Americas is a troop that can not be definitely expected to return to Europe or elsewhere in the world, IE where the fighting is. Keeping a significant army in a place with nothing important to its owner is a non-starter; it would be like the US keeping a carrier force stationed at a North Alaskan port, but without the oil.

There would then be no land sell to the United States.

Why not? Napoleon still needs money for wars, there still aren't enough French individuals to make New Orleans a US-Quebec if every soldier settled down, and the US would still be gunning for the place with tactic British support at the least, if not outright assistance should Britain and France come to blows (which will be mighty hard without serious PODs very far back.)

In time who knows, maybe Spain would sell Texas and California to France.

Why? Louisiana was sold because France needed money for what was essentially undefendable, useless land. Where is France going to get the money to buy more undefendable, non-profitable land?

A French North America allied to the free slaves of St. Domingue would put the fright in the slave owners of the American southern states.

Just as a slaveless British Empire horrified the Southern slave-owners, and mutual disgust and fear outright prevented any political dealings?

The sight of black soliders in New Orleans did in fact inspire many American slaves to flee to that city.

Not really, unless by "many" you mean "comparitive handful." Slaves may not have been educated, but it doesn't take much book learning to know that their are better places to runaway to than Louisiana. States without slavery, for starters.

With France in control of the entire Gulf region with diplomatic recognition of a black country in St. Domingue, there would most certainly be more slave rebellions in the South.

One: France does not control anything overseas unless the Royal Navy lets it. Two: Spanish Florida, Cuba, and other American possessions would have something to say about control of the Caribbean. Three: The Royal Navy. Four: The Royal Navy. Five:...

Oh, and slave revolts start with guns and instigators, not neighbors you have to walk months to reach. Blacks were more or less pacified as slaves, and actual slave revolts were increasingly rare.

Napoleon would be remembered as a great liberator and the United States would probably adopt a seige mentality rather than expansionist ambitions.

...

Already enough land to take decades to settle. A friendly relationship with the greatest power in the world, who would just love for US attention to be diverted from Canada to the weak and near-empty lands of their chief rival. Said empire having a navy to kick France out of the ocean, and France knowing that. The diplomatic troubles of instigating insurrections against nations that would be neutral otherwise.

 

[DuQuense]

1818
US /Canada border set at 49oN from Great lakes to Rockies Mountains.

POD 1819
Spain sells Florida, but doesn't include the western/Pacific [west along the 42nd oN to the South Seas] clause.

1824
John McLoughlin, appointed head or Chief Factor of the region, He moves its regional headquarters to Fort Vancouver, which became the de facto political center of the Pacific Northwest

President Jackson Begins Evacuation of Southern Indians west of the trans Mississippi Territories/States

1825
Russia gives up its claims to Oregon in treaties with Britain.
Indians and the East and Old Northwest Territories, begin to be pushed West.

1820~1840 with out the US claims from the Adams-Onís Treaty, Few Americans cross the Great American desert to Oregon.

1836
Texas Independence

1845
Southern States lose bid to Annex Texas

1846
Oregon Treaty of 1846, sets the Continental Divide from 49oN south to 42oN as the Western Border of the US.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Oregoncountry2.png

1850
First American Maps Showing all of the territory marked as Great American Desert as also Indian Territory.
[Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, Dakota, Wyoming, Montana.]

1861
CS War of Independence
Mexico declares Bankruptcy
France, Spain, Britain Invade Mexico to collect defaulted Bonds

1862
Britain, Spain, Withdraw from Mexico.
Britain warns US against interfering with Texas's Commerce.
France installs Maximilian as Emperor of Mexico.

1863
CS wins Battle of York, [Gettysburg analogue] Due to supplies bought thru Texas.
California/ North Mexico declare Independence, Mexican Civil War.
Exiled President Benito Juárez, Condemns Division of Mexico.

1864
Copperheads win Presidency, after Sherman defeated in Northern Georgia.
Texas recognizes Republic of North Mexico. Moves to establish Border.

1865
Treaty of Baltimore ends ACW.

1868
Dominion of Canada established.

1869
Treaty of Monterrey ends MCW.

1872
Dominion of Oregon established.

1889
Dominion of Oregon occupies Alaska after several Oregon and Canadian prospecting parties are detained by Russian Officials.

1890~1893
British-Russian War. Notable for the Role Japan played as a unofficial ally of Britain.

1894
CS passes Graduated Emancipation Act.

1899
Cuban Independence. During the 10 year long year the CSA supported the Rebels,