I'm reviving this thread so I can get feedback to help with a possible project to come out soon. So, what possible consequences do you people think would result from European explorers encountering larger, more stable, kingdoms in the New World? The very first New World civilization to be encountered was the Maya civilization, and they thrashed the first several expeditions and it took centuries for Spain to be able to claim the whole area with a straight face. Without a Classic Collapse happening their population would be about 10 times larger and they'd be much more advanced as well. Going with the idea that Spanish colonization efforts are much less successful than IOTL, how would Europe change? The purpose of this discussion, let's assume the Spanish are limited to making colonies in the Caribbean and less inhabited parts of the Americas. Central Mexico might still have an even larger than OTL civilization (I'm still not sure whether I want to avert the Mexican Collapse in my project as well as the Maya Collapse), the Maya area (larger than OTL's area, with the Maya establishing "colonies" as far as Panama and having large settlements in the Nicaraguan frontier) is obviously off-limits for conquistadors, the Mississippian civilization may still exist as a result of butterflies and some more contact with Mesoamerica, another possible idea is to have more development among the Pueblo peoples as well with larger settlements, and the Andean is also going to be free of rampaging conquistadors for the meantime at least, though the Inca may not exist. So what my limited knowledge of Europe tells me is that there's gonna be much less gold and silver flowing into Europe, and the Spanish Armada might not ever come to exist. With fewer routes of possible colonization/conquest, the European powers might feud even more bitterly over what they can take, and it might still be harder for them to drive off every single tribe from their homeland. The tribes and kingdoms that are threatened might try beating Europe at their own game, by taking advantage of the invader's conflicts and playing them against eachother.
But what my limited knowledge of European history does not tell me, is what happens as a result of no Spanish Armada, or a stunted colonization effort in the Americas. I assume they'll put some more effort into trying to take land in South America, with possible butterflies resulting in actual contact with large settlements in the Amazon and conflict with those peoples. Argentina would also be ripe for colonization, with the sparse population there less hostile climate than in the Amazon and Canada. But I still have no clue about political ramifications in Europe. Another idea I had was to have the first contact between Old World and New was to have it with the Ming and ATL Mesoamerica, but I don't think people would like the idea of multiple PoD's, to be honest I mostly like the idea just because it would result in a gentler contact scenario and might help save the Ming from falling somehow.