Map Thread XIX

Not open for further replies.

My submission for MOTF 216:

The narrow victory of the YES at the 1995 Quebec Independence Referendum was a stunning piece of news all over Canada, but perhaps nowhere was it as much of a shock as in Northern Quebec.
The fate of the extensive region, rich in Minerals, wood and particularly hydraulic ressources, but sparsely populated by a significant Native population was already a matter of concern before the Results came up, the referendum however, would propel it at the forefront of International Diplomacy.

Over the chaotic next 3 years, Canada and the Soon-to-be independent Quebec wagged a terrible war of influence over the ressource rich region, favours were exchanged for exploitation rights, Inuit and Cree communities, despesperately trying to save their autonomy, were courted for supports and centuries-old maps and treaties were dusted in attempts to claim past ownerships. That war of influence wasn't too cold either, as demonstrated by the many border crisis and show of force by the Canadian and the new Quebecker Army.
In the end, the question of who would would get the land had to be settled, the North, Nunavik, went to Canada as part of the New territory of Nunavut, Quebec City's attempt at keeping it ending up vain. They however managed to keep the Caniapiscau region next to Labrador, with the exception of the Naskapi Inhabited exclaves stuck between Nunavik and Labrador, which decided after a referendum to join the later.

Everybody knew that the most delicate question was the fate of Jamesie, its extensive hydraulic ressources were critical to the Multi-Billion Hydroelectric giant Hydro-Quebec. The region was however inhabited by both Native Cree and French in roughly equal numbers, but living in separate towns. While negotiations were ongoing Washington quickly made it clear that the exploitation of the large dams should not be jeopardise, as Hydro Quebec's export made powered a significant part of the north-east american grid. By 1997 Parizeau seemed able to snatch the region for Quebec, but a few diplomatic blunder caused by violence between Quebecker police and militias and Cree in Mistissini proved to be a rallying moment for Chrétien, riding on his reelection and not having to carefuly handle the various secessionist desires which appeared in the months following the referendum in western and maritime canada, as the impassionated negotiations between Ottawa and Quebec deterred them. He managed to strike a deal: Jamésie would not be part of Quebec or Canada, but ruled by both.

Thus was born the Condominium of Jamésie, the compromise was supposed to resolve conflicts by representing equally Francophones and Crees, by continuing the exploitation of the Dams while enshrining the Natives' right to their land, all headed by a council in Chibougamau, where representatives appointed by Ottawa and Quebec sit

The reality is different though, 15 years after its creation and the conflict between Quebec and Canada, between Hydro-quebec and the Cree still continues, the latest tensions concern the situation of the La Grande 1 dam, the most downstream of the great Rivers on the eponymous river as the Dam is located on the border of land managed by the Chisasibi Cree community , Montreal wants the exploitation right extended to accomodate for renovation and the stream of quebecker workers, always reaching the limit of the work related immigration quotas while the poor Chisasibi want a say on the management of the reservoir and the a part of the power export. In the south another source of conflict lies in the Mistissini's claim for a larger exclusive land exploitation area, supported by Ottawa but stritctly denied by Quebec on the basis that the neighboring region is part of a natural reserve that none should exploit.

Next to the quebecker border many Francophone inhabitants are starting to feel they don't belong to the condominium, economics opportunities are scarce in the region beyond the Hydroelectric sector and there is a growing resentment at the lack of attention of either government, more focused on the ressources rich north and despite Quebec's subsidies to every francophone inhabitant of the region there is a growing movement of francophone to quebec, mirroring the ongoing stream of Ontarian francophone away from Canada. Other still hope for a second mining boom in the condominium with a recent increase in prospecting licenses, but with the Cree's and NGO opposition to mining development and the suspicious attitude of Ottawa and Quebec over each other's involvment in mining project, it is clear that the Hydroelectric sector will stay the sole profitable one in the condominium for the foreseeable future.


Franco-Venetian alliance; 1513–1516:
Venice France Duchy of Ferrara
Papal States Spain Holy Roman Empire England Duchy of Milan + Swiss mercenaries

The death of Pope Julius II in 1513 left the League without effective leadership. In 1515 Louis XII also died, succeeded by Francis I. Francis continued the war against the League of Cambrai.
Francis led a French and Venetian Army against the Swiss, routing them at Marignano in September 1515. This decisively reversed the string of defeats the Swiss had inflicted on the Venetians and French. After this battle the League of Cambrai or Holy League collapsed. Both Spain and the new Pope, Leo X, gave up their support for Massiliano Sforza as the Duke of Milan.
In the 1516 treaties of Noyon and Brussels, the entirety of northern Italy was surrendered to France and Venice by Maximilian I.
- - - - - - - - - -


By the end of 1513 Charles had recaptured his Duchy.
In 1514, the Frisians appealed to Gelre in their struggle for independence against Duke George of Saxony. George had crossed the river Lauwers in 1514, entering Ommelanden and laid siege to Groningen, which called for help from Edzard of East Frisia and Charles of Guelders. George of Saxony failed to take Groningen and was pushed back.
Charles also expelled the Saxons from Ommelanden and Westerlauwers Friesland. George did manage to retain Leeuwarden, Harlingen and Franeker.
George's overlord, Emperor Maximilian, was already fighting Guelders, so instead of fighting East Frisia, he imposed the Imperial ban on Edzard. 24 German Princes invaded East Frisia in response.

Count John V of Oldenburg seeing an opportunity to provide North Sea access to attacked the Frisians in the Butjadingen area, and defeated them at Langwarden. Duke Henry I of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel invaded East Frisia with 20,000 men and besieged Leerort, only defended by a few peasants and soldiers. Henry I was killed by a targeted gunshot leaving his troops without a leader. They withdrew from East Frisia.

John V captured the castle at Großsander, then destroyed all three castles in Dornum. Edzard retreated, leaving John to besiege Aurich which was destroyed by the pillaging troops. (The city was rebuilt in 1517 as it was an important central livestock market)
Dünebroek was plundered, Burmönken, Marienhafe, Leerhafe and Rispel destroyed whilst Friedeburg surrendered. The castle at Altgödens was destroyed and Kniphausen Castle was captured.
An attempt to capture Oldersum failed.
In 1515, the tide turned in favor Edzard I. He recaptured the castle at Großsander and the fortresses Gutzwarden in Butjadingen. In 1517, Edzard I recaptured Friedeburg castle.

In 1515, George renounced his claims to the Frisian countries and sold the rights to Prince Charles for 100,000 guilders .

At the same time as the 1515 declaration of majority of the Prince Charles of Burgundy (Lord of the Netherlands), his aunt, Margaret of Austria, was replaced as governor by William II of Croÿ. He did not consider the reconquest of Gelre as urgent but the tension flared up again as Margaret re-took office two years later.

Prince Charles sent troops to the area and appointed Floris van Egmont as stadholder. The Frisians rebelled against this, attacked Dutch ships at sea and attacked Medemblik in 1517. The Frisians, Gueldersen, East Frisians, Groningers and Ommelanders united against their common enemy led by Duke Charles, who also had an alliance with King Francis I of France.

In 1516, King Ferdinand II of Aragon died. His grandson, Prince Charles, became King of Spain in Brussels and had to travel to Spain to settle state affairs.
In 1517, whilst awaiting favorable sea breezes for travel to Spain, he learned that 6,000 Guelders soldiers had been transported to Medemblik. After landing, they moved to Alkmaar and through Holland to Asperen, looting along the way. King Charles postponed his journey to respond to this. He recaptured Asperen and ordered an expedition to re-take Holland.
Needed elsewhere, he negotiated a compromise peace with Edzard, recognising him as Count of East-Frisia and lifting the Imperial ban, and with Charles, Duke of Guelders, leaving him in control of most of Frisia, the Ommelanden and Groningen, then sailed to Spain.
Edzard vacated Groningen and concluded the Peace of Zetel with Duke Henry II of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel and Count John V of Oldenburg, ceding the "Frisian Forest" to Oldenburg.


Ferdinand invaded Navarre in 1512 during a war against France. This stretched the finances of Aragon and Castile to their limit.
Unable to face the Castilian-Aragonese army, King John III fled to Béarn. Pamplona, Estella, Olite, Sanguesa, and Tudela were captured by September. In October 1512 King John III returned with an army recruited north of the Pyrenees and attacked Pamplona without success.
After this failure, the Navarrese Cortes had no option but to pledge loyalty to King Ferdinand of Aragon.
In 1513, the first Castilian viceroy took a formal oath to respect Navarrese institutions and laws.

Navarre, north of the Pyrenees, along with the neighbouring Principality of Béarn, survived as an independent Kingdom.

Ferdinand died in January 1516, succeeded by his mentally unstable daughter Joanna, her son proclaimed himself co-ruler as King Charles I of Castile and Aragon.
- - - - - - - - - -


Foundations for the future expansion of Habsburg rule were laid with the weddings of Louis, only son of Ladislaus II, King of Bohemia and Hungary, and Mary, granddaughter of Maximilian; and between Archduke Ferdinand and Vladislaus' daughter Anna, in 1515.
[They were all still minors, so the weddings were formally completed in 1521. Vladislaus died in 1516, Maximilian died in 1519. On Louis's death in 1526, Maximilian's grandson, Charles V's brother, Ferdinand, became King of Bohemia.]

The Poor Conrad were secret peasants' leagues which, in 1514, revolted against Duke Ulrich of Württemberg. The term used to mock them, meaning "poor fellow", was adopted by the rebels.
Duke Ulrich's lifestyle had depleted the Württemberg treasury, instead of cutting down his expenses, the Duke raised taxes further. Citizens of Stuttgart and Tübingen refused to pay a wealth tax, so he imposed a tax on meat, wine and fruit to the disadvantage of the unprivileged population.
Crop failures of 1508 and 1513 meant that farmers were unable to pay the new taxes. This led to a hike in food prices.
To collect the tax, Ulrich had the unit of measurement of weight reduced, so, for the price of one kilogram of flour, one received only 700 grammes.

Riots broke out in Leonberg and Grüningen, encouraged by town priest. In mid-July, rebels occupied Schorndorf, the Duke narrowly escaping. Marching through Württemberg, the rebels camped near Beutelsbach but approaching Ducal troops persuaded more and more rebels to leave the camp. Finally the Poor Conrad rebellion collapsed quietly.
- - - - - - - - - -



The Teutonic Knights avoided paying tribute to Poland.
This situation had got worse after the 1511 election of Albrecht as Grand Master of the Order. Albrecht's rearmed and made hostile alliances.
Poland declared war in 1519.


In 1514 the Hungarian chancellor returned from Rome with a papal bull authorising a crusade against the Ottomans. He appointed Dózsa, a soldier of fortune who had won a reputation for valour, to organize this. Within a few weeks, Dózsa had gathered an army of some 40,000, consisting mostly of peasants, students, friars and priests; the lowest-ranking groups of medieval society.
By the time he had provided some military training, they began to air grievances about their status and treatment. No measures had been taken to supply food or clothing and, as harvest-time approached, their landlords ordered them to return to the fields. On their refusing to do so, landlords maltreated their wives and families and set armed retainers upon the local peasantry.

Angry at the Noble's failure to provide military leadership, their anti-landlord sentiment became apparent during the march across the Hungarian Plain, and the Hungarian chancellor cancelled the campaign. Diverted from its original object, the peasants and their leaders sought vengeance against the landlords.

Dózsa was losing control, his command had fallen under the influence of Lőrinc Mészáros, parson of Cegléd. The rebellion intensified when towns joined the peasants. In Buda cavalry sent against the rebels were unhorsed as they passed through the gates.

Rebellion spread quickly in the central, purely Magyar provinces, where manor houses and castles were burnt and gentry killed by impalement, crucifixion, and other methods. Dózsa's camp at Cegléd was the centre of the revolt, raids in the surrounding area radiating out from there.

The papal bull was revoked and King Vladislaus II issued a command for the peasants to return home, under pain of death. All of the Kingdom's vassals were called out and mercenaries hired from Venice, Bohemia and the Empire.
Dózsa captured the city and fortress of Csanád and impaled the Bishop and the Castellan. Subsequently, the Lord Treasurer was seized and tortured to death at Arad. During the summer, Dózsa seized the fortresses of Arad, Lippa and Világos, gaining cannons and trained gunners. Some of troops approached within 25 kilometres of the capital, but his ill-armed men were outmatched by heavy cavalry.

Dózsa was routed at Temesvár by 20,000 men led by John Zápolya and István Báthory. Dózsa was captured, condemned to sit on a smouldering, heated iron throne and forced to wear a heated iron crown and sceptre.
The revolt was repressed but some 70,000 peasants were tortured. No longer a politically united people, the execution and brutal suppression of the peasants aided the 1526 Ottoman invasion.

A Peasant revolt took place in 1515 in the Slovene lands.
About 80,000 rebels demanded the reintroduction of their original feudal obligations and trade rights and demanded input on decisions about taxes.
The uprising started in the Gottschee region where peasants killed their lord, Jorg von Thurn. They attacked the castles in the region but the revolt was put down by mercenaries from the Empire after a battle fought at Celje.

The Kingdom of Hungary was almost in ruins. The nobility was divided and, without a strong central government, it could not unite in defense of the country. King Louis II was weakened by the numerous conflicts. Lower nobility clashed with the higher nobility and court circles, and the Duke of Erdel, John Zápolya, one of the wealthiest nobles, represented open opposition to the already weak regime. The Duke's supporters were in constant conflict with the court circles. The King was a powerless figure in the hands of his ambitious advisors.
It was not possible to strengthen the defence of the southern border or to undertake any military campaigns.
- - - - - - - - - -


Whilst the Ottomans were intent on an Eastward policy during the reign of Selim I, fighting both the Safavid Empire and the Mamluks, there were also actions in North Africa and the Western Mediterranean against Spain. Algeria was taken in 1516.

Defeating the Persian Safavids at Chaldiran in 1514, Selim was preparing for another campaign against them when the Mamluks attacked, moving against them with this army, the Mamluk's crumbled.
Selim crushed all opposition as he moved through Syria and defeated the remnants of the Mamluk forces outside Cairo.
Egypt became part of the Ottoman Empire in 1517, along with large parts of Mesopotamia, dramatically expanding the Empire's eastern and southern frontiers.
Selim I established a naval presence on the Red Sea and moved on Mecca and Medina.
After this expansion, the Ottomans and Portuguese competed to become the dominant power in the seas around Arabia.

In 1519, Selim, cultivating Babur as an ally, dispatched artillerymen, matchlock marksmen, and other military aid to assist Babur in his conquests in India.
- - - - - - - - - -
Why would Manchuria gain any kind of autonomy, or even desire it? The region is 95+% Han Chinese, and has been above 80-90% for nearly a century at this point. Not helping matters is their association with the Japanese and their Manchukuo puppet state in the '30s and '40s...
I was only 19 when I made that timeline. Basically because the Manchus consider themselves a different people with different language and culture. It was part of the Second Chinese Civil War (concurring with World War III) that the PLA was overextended in fighting multiple fronts of the war.
A pretty basic map, the idea being that instead of dividing India on religion, India is divided based on ethno-linguistic groups:


Afghanistan (Iranic)
Bharat (Indo-Aryan)
Dravida Nadu (Dravidian)
Sri Lanka (Sinhalese)
WW2 Axis Victory.png

This was one of the first map I made. I don't remember when I created but it was in my files. I think I was in 7th Grade when I begun to be interested in History and alt
@Bob Hope you will want to add Ravensburg to Jülich-Berg in this map. And possibly the last one. I am also unsure if the borders colored for Denmark, Schleswig, and Holstein would be as clear here as I read that they were pretty cut up and spread about because the locals wanted them to be so entangled they couldn’t be separated for economic reasons. Perhaps adding a color for Imperial Cities would be a good idea? Something that stands out more than the standard yellow gold of the church lands of course. Bit hard to make out the borders within those. In your key you Have Cologne labeled as a Bishopric. They were an Archbishoprice for nearly five hundred years at the point in this map, though I assume you put it there mostly to differentiate from the city of Cologne. Going to add a border between Upper, Lower, and Near Austria?

A little map involving a scenario where the April 6, 1944 mutiny does not occur among the 'Greek Armed Forces in the Middle East' - as a result the new "Hellenic National Army" in Greece consists of some solidly left/republican elements rather than a staunchly monarchist organization. This leads to a mutiny of some army units in the chaos of 1946 Greece (as well as aid from Moscow), meaning the Provisional Democratic Government has more teeth when the Greek Civil War breaks out and the government of the (soon-to-be) King Paul is on the ropes at the close of 1947. With the final line, I left the ending ambiguous with the implication a showdown with the East is possible...
Last edited:
A pretty basic map, the idea being that instead of dividing India on religion, India is divided based on ethno-linguistic groups:

View attachment 551507
Afghanistan (Iranic)
Bharat (Indo-Aryan)
Dravida Nadu (Dravidian)
Sri Lanka (Sinhalese)
No love for the Dravida Brahuis, nor for the Sino-Tibetans nor the Austroasiatics? Also, Sinhalese is an Indo-Aryan language, as is Dhivehi.
Last edited:
No love for the Dravida Brahuis, nor for the Sino-Tibetans nor the Austroasiatics? Also, Sinhalese is an Indo-Aryan language, as is Dhivehi.

I wanted to be plausible, of course. I don't think that British would just carve out a Brahui enclave in Afghanistan and give it to Dravida Nadu out of nowhere. Austroasiatics are small in number, Sinhalese and Maldivans don't want to be a part of India/Bharat, and there were no strong nationalist movements in Northeastern India in the 1940s.
I wanted to be plausible, of course. I don't think that British would just carve out a Brahui enclave in Afghanistan and give it to Dravida Nadu out of nowhere. Austroasiatics are small in number, Sinhalese and Maldivans don't want to be a part of India/Bharat, and there were no strong nationalist movements in Northeastern India in the 1940s.
There was some consideration to giving parts of the Northeast to Burma though. You've also split up the Dardic areas unnecessarily.
Last edited:
Man in the High Gulag -1995- Writeup.png

The World of the Man in the High Gulag.
this might be an asb
In this alternate world, sometimes in 1967, The Soviet and American forces in berlin would fire back at each other sparking ww3. With it being a politically divided time, the Americans fuck up and send their military later than they should have. Thanks to this the soviets steamroll across Germany, soon they would capture Bonn, and capitulate West Germany. Eventually by the time the US arrive the rhine has fallen to the Germans. Meanwhile in Asia, NK and China (Sino-Soviet split never happen) would crush the south Korean military and occupied the south. Italy does what Italy dose and get coup by the communist party and join the warsaw pact. In the US, riots occur across the state with many learning of the US deals in dictatorships in many states. By 1973 Paris falls and Most of France falls under communist hands. Eventually the USSR would invade southern Spain where the rest of the nato alliance surrender. Soon the Russians and Chinese invade Alaska and the US surrender in 1975 after the fall of anchorage. In the treaty of berlin, Most of the European states fall under Soviet control. Spain, the UK, and Denmark remain. The Nordic Nations would unite into one nation in 1978. In 1978 the British revolution by republicans would cause the parliament, royal family and loyalist to flee to Canada and Hijack the government taking full control. The USA meanwhile collapses into many states.
Not open for further replies.