Map Thread XIX

[Historyman 14]

USA vs CUSSA, freedom against slavery, industrialization and protectionism against plantations and free trade. The confrontation of two nations existing in the ruins of the First Republic of the United States determined the history of North America in the second half of the nineteenth century.
PoD: President Zachary Taylor did not die, and instead of the Compromise of 1850 there was a civil war that ended with the separation of the Confederate Union of Southern States of America (CUSSA)

Great map, but the 1850's was a decade of armament by the southern states. They could see the writing on the wall and were preparing for the worst. If a war broke out in 1850, the south would be stomped hard.

Yeah, I'm with Ameck. Both sides would be much less prepared for Civil War, but the South lacks it many famed generals that let the OTL lead to it early victories.

Texas may actually stay within the Union given Sam Houston has far more political clot at this point and was extremely Pro-Union.

It also be much less bloodied given the lack of military technology that would be there in 1861.


The Upper South would be on the fence just as they where in 1861 before Fort Sumter and the call for Troopes.

No way would the South reach that far West.

 

[Vladyslav]

Great map, but the 1850's was a decade of armament by the southern states. They could see the writing on the wall and were preparing for the worst. If a war broke out in 1850, the south would be stomped hard.

The difference in mobilization potentials between the North and the South in 1850 is much less than in 1860. The 1850s were a period of very rapid industrial and demographic growth in the North. The situation in the cotton market also works in favor of the South. Production growth in Egypt and India will occur only at the end of the decade.

Texas may actually stay within the Union

The conflict largely began due to disputes over the Texas border. Without a compromise of 1850, the civil war will begin with the shooting between the feds and Texans in Santa Fe.

The Upper South

The war will begin not as an attempt at secession, but as a result of discontent with the actions of the Federal Government in the West. The Upper South at that time was more inclined to identify with the Deep South than a decade later. Secession will occur when it becomes obvious that neither the North nor the South can ensure their dominance across the country.

No way would the South reach that far West.

The real boundary and the declared are two different things. In reality, there will be Indians in New Mexico and Arizona who do not recognize the power of the USA or the CUSSA over them.

 

[Skallagrim]

Yeah, I'm with Ameck. Both sides would be much less prepared for Civil War, but the South lacks it many famed generals that let the OTL lead to it early victories.

I would argue that with the Mexican-American War in the recent past, and considering the South's overrepresentation (both in soldiers and officers) during that war, the USA of 1850 has just gone through what was essentially a massive training excercise for a future Southern army. (Naturally, the Northern vets are similarly blessed by experience, but not only is the demographic balance of fighting age adults less in the North's favour, the South is actually overrepresented in its number of actual vets who gained experience in the war.)

It also be much less bloodied given the lack of military technology that would be there in 1861.

This is true.

Texas may actually stay within the Union given Sam Houston has far more political clot at this point and was extremely Pro-Union.

The Upper South would be on the fence just as they where in 1861 before Fort Sumter and the call for Troops.

No way would the South reach that far West.

The author of the map has addressed these. I'll only add that the extent to which the Upper South definitively identified itself with the Southern bloc rather than with the Union was, in 1850, considerably greater than a decade later. Even if you believe that the Upper South will be less fervent about secession (certainly true), there won't be as much "fence-sitting" as we saw in OTL's Civil War. When the battle lines get drawn, all the slave states will be on the south of those lines, and no doubt about it.

(That doesn't mean the Union can't force some of the Upper South back into the fold, of course.)

 

[Historyman 14]

Happy 50th anniversary of the moon landing gents.
View attachment 474285
*Insert booming narrator voice here*
For as long as they know, all humans have shared a belief in and worship of the God Apollo, who created man and then carried them to their new home of Luna following the destruction of Terra. However, the people of the world are divided between three branches of Apolloism; Classical, Revised, and Eastern.
Classical Apolloism is marked by it's belief that the prophet Armstrong was the greatest of Apollo's missionaries, and as such view him as a sort of demigod immediately below the creator. They also view Terra as a land which is destined for only sinners and those who reject Apollo.
Revised Apolloism rejects Armstrong however and instead reveres the final prophet Cortes*, and believe that all other prophets are below him in the heavenly hierarchy. Not only that, but they believe that it is man's destiny to reclaim their old homeworld of Terra.
Eastern Apolloism rejects the idea of multiple prophets at all, instead believing that all the prophets were physical proxies of Apollo sent to guide humanity towards their destiny. They believe that Apollo resides within the center of Terra, and that he cast Humanity to Luna as punishment for their crimes, and that they cannot return until a predestined time.

I truly love this as it is rather unique and interesting.

Me and @Joshua Ben Ari talk a little about this and we had the idea to expand this, of Jules Verne taking the role of a patron saint, while Yuri Gagarin as a prophet as well.

My own idea is a whole counter to Apolloism in the form of Artemism. (Famed women and the now Artemis program of putting a woman on the Moon.)

 

[Pragmatic Progressive]

Frontispiece from a 1952 children's book from the same universe as the BOAC maps:

I like the map, and... am I right that the USA(?) sans Pacifica, France, Iberia, Italy, the Benelux states and/or (West) Germany are communist or syndicalist in nature? If nto, what form of government prevails there? If yes, are there differences between these syndicalisms?

 

[exilarchia]

Map of Westeros during Season 8 of Game of Thrones. I did it in like 20 minutes so if there are any errors, sorry. I couldn't find any information for what happened in the Reach, the Stormlands and the Riverlands after Season 7, so I guessed. A LOT.

In the Riverlands, Edmure Tully managed to escape from the grip of the Lannister forces in the south and later lead a short-lived insurgency which did manage to cause considerable chaos for the Lannister forces garrisoned there. With House Frey wiped out, the local lords in the northern Riverlands are just keeping their head low and hoping they survive another day. The Northern and Vale forces have occupied small areas to link up their forces along the Kingsroad.

In the Stormlands, Lannister forces have a very considerable presence, after House Baratheon was wiped out. Not much else is happening here.

In the Reach, Lannister forces occupy the northern areas so they can control the Gold Road, a strategically important road going from Casterly Rock to King's Landing. Some surviving Tarly bannermen reside at Horn Hill and still pledge for Cersei. After the Sack of Highgarden, the Reach has devolved into dozens of political squabbles, with assassinations being very common nowadays.

In Dorne, Quentyn Martell (who I assumed was the unnamed Martell in Episode 6) has taken power after the death of Ellaria Sand and her daughters (only good writing decision since Season 6) and has pledged Dorne to the Targaryens, according to Varys.

In the Iron Islands, Yara essentially just landed 3 ships on the Islands and all of Euron's forces there defected to Yara's side, according to Varys.

In the North, the Army of the Dead continues their march southwards, after the Fall of Eastwatch and Massacre at Last Hearth. They are about 30 or so miles north of Winterfell, where all the Northern, Vale, and Targaryen forces are waiting for them to come. All settlements north of the Last River have been abandoned, with massive refugee movements towards White Harbor and the vacant Dreadfort. The Night's Watch and Wildings are also going to abandon the Wall, as it is essentially useless after Eastwatch was destroyed. Castle Black and Shadow Tower are only manned by 60 men each, with the remaining 600 men and 1000 Wildings falling back to Winterfell.

In the Vale, nothing is happening. At all. Same with the Crownlands, although Euron's fleet is sailing for Dragonstone, equipped with Qyburn's heat-seeking surface-air scorpions, all manned by 20 shirtless good men who have the aim of modern-day SEALs.

 

[SpudNutimus]

Something I made for a collab I'm a part of on Discord, in which the Cuban Missile Crisis goes hot and the nukes fly. Right now we're focusing on the factions left in eastern Siberia after the Soviets are gone, as well as northern China and Mongolia, although we hope to expand further eventually.

 

[SnivyLink]

The United States, now with MORE EXCLAVES

Oh yeah, and there's some other changes, but that's just how I do maps, I throw in MORE changes

 

[B_Munro]

I've been stuck at 70% done on this for quite a while: glad I finally managed to finish it.

This is an attempt at a detailed map of Robert Silverberg's "Gate of Worlds" alternate history setting, including material from the followup collaborative work "Beyond the Gate of Worlds" with Robert Brunner and Chelsea Quinn Yarbro. There are some contradictions and inconsistencies, which I've done my best to paper over.

This is one of those worlds where Europe gets hit harder by the black plague than in ours, allowing the Islamic world to take over and the native American peoples get a respite: later the Turks are too busy holding down their overextended empire to go on any Hesperidian Jihads (the Americas are called the Hesperides in this world). Russia, thanks to thin population, bad roads and isolation is less hard hit by the plague, but isn't strong enough (yet) to challenge the Ottoman Turks in Europe, so it moves east earlier than in our world, becoming a sort of Christian steppe empire, and eventually invading north China when it enters a stage of late-dynastic decay. The Russians carve off those bits without too many Chinese and vassalize the rest. The Chinese previously (due to butterflies from very different history to the west) keep sailing longer than in our world, eventually getting as far as New Zealand, where the shipwreck of much of a Treasure Fleet in a great storm gives the Maori a useful technological leg up.

History happens. By the early 21st century the Ottoman empire is in advanced decay, having lost its African possession to an Arab revival, and with its grip on much of Europe slipping away. The world's strongest powers are the Aztecs and the Russians, although the Russians have suffered a setback due to an outbreak of civil war after the assassination of a Czar, leading to a revolt in China and a quieter rebellion in Japan, also a Russian vassal. Much of Africa is booming economically. Northern Europe is finally re-emerging as a place where Stuff Happens, but probably too late in history to make much difference. The Maori have rather less people than the two big powers, but tend to punch well above their weight due to technical savvy.

It's a somewhat less technologically advanced world than our own, with heavier than air flight and dirigibles still in the theoretical stages (although man-carrying gliders exist), telegraph but no radio, trains and steamships and cars powered by steam and powdered coal. Still, technological progress is accelerating, and certain secret societies are working to prevent technological warfare as bad or worse as our world wars from happening: for the Gate of Worlds is delicately balanced, and with the help of a wizard, one can predict exactly when and where one needs to push...

 

[FesteringSpore]

snip

Tfw when Dai Ngu becomes a legitimate entity on its own

Also, Dai Ngu means Great pEace, but in modern Vietnamese it means "Great Stupid"

 

[B_Munro]

Tfw when Dai Ngu becomes a legitimate entity on its own

Also, Dai Ngu means Great pEace, but in modern Vietnamese it means "Great Stupid"

I imagine there are a great many such variations in meaning between alternate worlds. Imagine the amusement when we get visitors from a world where "gay" strictly means "happy and joyful" and a "faggot" is just a piece of wood.

 

[Oxander]

Map of Westeros during Season 8 of Game of Thrones. I

Honestly, I'd strongly suggest that you more greatly differentiate between Lannister and Targ color. The reds are far too similar.

 

[XTrapnel]

 

[XTrapnel]

I like the map, and... am I right that the USA(?) sans Pacifica, France, Iberia, Italy, the Benelux states and/or (West) Germany are communist or syndicalist in nature? If nto, what form of government prevails there? If yes, are there differences between these syndicalisms?

Most of Europe (including West Germany) is ruled by essentially Orthodox syndicalist states allied to each other (although the non-French Communes are starting to feel that France might be getting a little domineering). America's also syndicalist on paper, but its governance owes more to OTL's mid-century managerialism coupled with Skinnerian behavioural modification than syndicalism proper.

 

[Clandango]

The United States, now with MORE EXCLAVES
View attachment 475071
Oh yeah, and there's some other changes, but that's just how I do maps, I throw in MORE changes

My, isn't Azerbaijan being a bit restrained here? They go claim the rest of that red as well, after all. Also odd you gave up a chance for a State of Israel.

 

[Pragmatic Progressive]

Most of Europe (including West Germany) is ruled by essentially Orthodox syndicalist states allied to each other (although the non-French Communes are starting to feel that France might be getting a little domineering). America's also syndicalist on paper, but its governance owes more to OTL's mid-century managerialism coupled with Skinnerian behavioural modification than syndicalism proper.

What is "Skinnerian behavioural modification"?

 

[Clandango]

What is "Skinnerian behavioural modification"?

Hair growth formula.

 

[Pragmatic Progressive]

Hair growth formula.

Sorry, what? I really don't know - is the member alluding to some hair growth product? Or do you warn me? Sorry for all the ignorance regarding internet memes etc.

 

[Betelgeuse]

It's a joke - play on the word 'conditioning.'

 

[Clandango]

Sorry, what? I really don't know - is the member alluding to some hair growth product? Or do you warn me? Sorry for all the ignorance regarding internet memes etc.

It's a joke - play on the word 'conditioning.'

More I was thinking when first reading that it might be involving Skinheads, and then thought of a cartoon where the balding Lenin offered his economic hair growth tonic to an already hairy world.